Virtue and Moir # 26- There's no place like home

[walei]

One other thing I love about Scott, people are dwelling on Tessa's twizzle mistake because it's the most obvious one but Scott in that article also pointed out he messed up on the step sequence and costed them a level. He is always so protective of Tessa.

[bmcg]

On a lighter note (sort of ) I'm now convinced PJ Kwong's predictions are the kiss of death (like the black mark of Tarasova). She predicted Chan in third and he has a very comfortable lead sitting in first. She predicted V&M to win and we all know how that's looking. So PJ in the future when it comes to ice dance just cop out with a "it's too close to call" please

eta...Regarding the talk about nerves I just think the training situation doesn't work for them anymore. I know they disagree but I think they need a separation, some distance. They used to have nerves of steel, you watched and just knew they would deliver. I think the overtraining prior to 4CC was because they knew D&W were doing run through after run through so they would be on autopilot and it affected them enough to change their training regime instead of just trusting their plan. If they didn't see D&W everyday that probably wouldn't have happened. I've said it before and will repeat that Krylova saw this coming last season. I don't particularly like Pascale's choreography so I don't say that's a solution but I think they would get a breath of fresh air training with Krylova (who clearly admires them and sees what is special about them) and being around Kaitlyn and Andrew and Chan if he does indeed move to that club.

[pani]

Honestly i only feel sad they did this 4CC. Before at Nationals Tessa looked so strong, so on. They needed? like Chan, spend more time in Canada before WCh. Its not like they won, if they didnt go to 4CC, but Tessa still healthy, if they didnt made this trip. IMHO.

[blueglass]

They've been struggling with errors all season, but it really hasn't been Scott who's struggled, it's been Tessa. That's why I believe it's her legs, because it really looks like the 2009 season all over again when she couldn't trust that her legs would do what was required of them. You can't separate the level of confidence from how she's feeling about that issue. They're Olympic champions - they know how to deal with competition nerves.
I agree that the situation in Canton just isn't working for them. I think D&W have used it to their advantage to improve in many of their weak areas by observing what they need to copy, and intentionally or not, are impacting Tessa's confidence by showing how much harder they can train. It also comes out in other ways - I can't recall even one interview where I've them complement V&M's skating whereas the opposite is true for Scott and Tessa who always acknowledge D&W. Zueva, because of her friendship with V&M, has in fact let them down. So where could they go - I'd like to see them come home. They could move to Montreal with Marie-France and Patrice or to Vancouver with Megan and Aaron.

[pani]

I'd like to see them come home. They could move to Montreal with Marie-France and Patrice or to Vancouver with Megan and Aaron.

I think they only could go to Novi. Maybe Toronto, but isnt Tessas school is far away?

[pani]

And sorry - i responsible for 20 pages was post in this thread. Sorry.

[volunteer]

Hm, lots to think about on the way to work. . .
There are two issues, the question about their ability to train intensly, however they managed to win Olympic gold with her legs in far worse condition. The other is the type of programs which are being rewarded. Their strength is to make the difficult look easy, well they need to do the opposite, make the easy look difficult by skating at breakneck speed, for example make a ballet look like a polka.
For this competition - I'm still confident that they will win the FD with Carmen, but it won't be enough for the gold. Sadly for them, and us, their mistakes in the SD were costly. In spite of everything else I believe about what is being rewarded, the fact of the matter is they didn't skate their best. (it so pains me to put that down in writing).

[rainbowkisses]

No problem. And you didn't have to delete your posts. If it makes some feel better about themselves (thank god they're not crazy like we are) to go in the limited access section and talk about this thread and V/M fans, then let them go at it; the irony is amusing.

Not sure if I can't sleep because I can't breath (stupid cold) or from last night's disappointment.

get well soon!
i felt like i couldnt breathe last night too! sometimes i feel like im more nervous than tessa and scott when it comes to watching them compete

[walei]

This may be a lost cause but Tessa and Scott are 3.25 points behind. Last year they won the FD with 2.68. It is not unthinkable that a great Carmen with all the levels can make up that amount so let's continue cheering for our favorite team and sending them all the good vibes!

[tut88]

I think they only could go to Novi. Maybe Toronto, but isnt Tessas school is far away?

don't know if this is a health problem of tessa, or problems with nerves, or for DW pushing.
If they will decide to change coach I think they may want to go back to Igor.
Mf and Patrick have no experience to work with such a pressure, Aaron too.

I just hope Tessa is well. Then I'm sure they will do, if necessary, the best choice.

[volunteer]

And sorry - i responsible for 20 pages was post in this thread. Sorry.

Pani - you don't have to apologize for anything. Sometimes you get carried away because of your devotion to VM, but you're honest and you often put into writing what my gut reaction is.

[professordeb]

OK, had a decent night's sleep, took my sinus meds and am ready for another day.

Still sooooooooooooooooo gutted about last night, and not only for V/M although that is the largest part of my sorrow.

I'm with those who really believe that V/M need to "get out of town" aka changes coaches and training venue. I thought they would be OK for them to continue training there, but I've changed my mind. It's obvious to me that D/W have taken some of the special touches of V/M -- their connection, for instance -- and added that to their blazing speed. Some things that have worked so well for V/M now seems to be mirrored by D/W. Add in that D/W tend to recycle a number of moves to the fact that the judges insist that speed is the almighty separator and what do you get -- a team that appears to be unbeatable. Well I'm not buying that kool-aid. It reminds me too much of another team that was about speed and NOT about the things that are supposed to be about dance. There's a reason it's called DANCE and not short track racing (although I enjoy that sport too LOL).

BTW, I'm still ticked that an AMERICAN asked for a review of the step sequence knowing darned well it would open up a larger gap between the two top couples. She knew how well D/W were scored, knew that V/M got level 4 on both their YP compared to D/W who only got one, and I think went hunting to find something else that could knock another point or so off V/M's score. She didn't know how the judges would score the GOE, but I'm thinking she had a pretty good idea that it wouldn't be a good as D/W. The bigger the gap after the SD, the more likely HER team wins gold.

OK, I remember reading earlier here who does what on the Tech Panel but for the life of me, I can't recall. Off to do some homework ...

[volunteer]

profdeb: are we certain that it was the american who asked for a review of the step sequence? How would we know that?

[icefan1005]

Before this, I thought staying with Marina was better for V/M since she has a close relationship with them, but I don't think it's a good idea for them to stay in Canton anymore. It's now very apparent how different the training atmosphere is in Canton, and I agree it doesn't seem to favor V/M's interests.

[nlyoung]

profdeb: are we certain that it was the american who asked for a review of the step sequence? How would we know that?

Scott's error was obvious. For any caller not to have asked for a review having noticed it would have been unthinkable. No conspiracy there.

I too was hoping for a V/M win, but always hoped that it would come down to skating on the day. D/W were cleaner last night. I'm pleasantly surprised the components were as close as they were as I'm sure several marks were adjusted accordingly based on the night's performances. Had the small errors gone in the other direction we would have seen the reverse results as we did at 4CC. D/W are ahead as they skated as well as they could have last night. V/M did not.

Hopefully this will take the pressure off and we'll see Tessa and Scott able to skate freely tomorrow. If they skate as well as they can there is a good chance they'll come out on top at least for that portion. It may not be enough for the overall title, but would allow then to leave on a good note. I for one am happy they skate first as they'll just be out there skating for themselves.

Bring on Carmen!

[professordeb]

profdeb: are we certain that it was the american who asked for a review of the step sequence? How would we know that?

The Tech Panel was thus:
Referee: Hilary Selby
Technical Controller: Ingrid Charlotte Wolter
Technical Specialist: Marie Bowness (CAN)
Assistant Technical Specialist: Judy Blumberg (USA)

Here's a quick summary of who does what:
- The Technical Specialist, assisted by the Assistant Technical Specialist, identifies and calls the performed elements and the specific Levels of Difficulty of certain performed elements (e.g. Spins, Footwork,). He/She identifies illegal or additional elements, identifies falls and adds, if applicable, innovative elements.
- The Technical Controller authorizes or corrects all calls, supervises the Data Operator and can propose corrections, if necessary.
In case of disagreement, the majority among the three Officials prevail.
So it would seem that Bowness of Canada originally called a level 4 for V/M footwork, Blumberg asked that it be reviewed as she thought it was a level 3; I'm guessing that the Controller sided with the level 3 call, since that is what V/M ended with.
Off to try and find out who is from where ... digging through the ISU site.

[pani]

Scott's error was obvious. For any caller not to have asked for a review having noticed it would have been unthinkable. No conspiracy there.

I too was hoping for a V/M win, but always hoped that it would come down to skating on the day. D/W were cleaner last night. I'm pleasantly surprised the components were as close as they were as I'm sure several marks were adjusted accordingly based on the night's performances. Had the small errors gone in the other direction we would have seen the reverse results as we did at 4CC. D/W are ahead as they skated as well as they could have last night. V/M did not.

Hopefully this will take the pressure off and we'll see Tessa and Scott able to skate freely tomorrow. If they skate as well as they can there is a good chance they'll come out on top at least for that portion. It may not be enough for the overall title, but would allow then to leave on a good note. I for one am happy they skate first as they'll just be out there skating for themselves.

Bring on Carmen!

I am not sure D-W were better on 4 points, sorry. I agree on 2 points D-W were perfect& Why nobody see how many snow was under there skates? I strongly disagree with there World record and 10th.
Why if D-W get 10 Chan didnt? He is uch better skaters
But OK, i am crazy, dont pay attention.

[pani]

The Tech Panel was thus:
Referee: Hilary Selby
Technical Controller: Ingrid Charlotte Wolter
Technical Specialist: Marie Bowness (CAN)
Assistant Technical Specialist: Judy Blumberg (USA)

Here's a quick summary of who does what:
- The Technical Specialist, assisted by the Assistant Technical Specialist, identifies and calls the performed elements and the specific Levels of Difficulty of certain performed elements (e.g. Spins, Footwork,). He/She identifies illegal or additional elements, identifies falls and adds, if applicable, innovative elements.
- The Technical Controller authorizes or corrects all calls, supervises the Data Operator and can propose corrections, if necessary.
In case of disagreement, the majority among the three Officials prevail.
So it would seem that Bowness of Canada originally called a level 4 for V/M footwork, Blumberg asked that it be reviewed as she thought it was a level 3; I'm guessing that the Controller sided with the level 3 call, since that is what V/M ended with.
Off to try and find out who is from where ... digging through the ISU site.

Bowns and Blumberg had difference levels and all depend on what Ingrid Charlotte Wolter thinking about this

[bmcg]

I know I´m the one who made the original snarky comment about wondering who called for the review with a face but I'm pretty sure the TC can also call for a review so it´s not possible to say with certainty who called for a review. And before others who read this thread with hawkeyes and run elsewhere to mock us run with the idea Bowness tried to sneak in a level four that's as ridiculous as claiming with certainty Blumberg called for the review. Sometimes they just make a call knowing they will go back and review because they have to carry on watching and calling the rest of the program.

[professordeb]

Scott's error was obvious. For any caller not to have asked for a review having noticed it would have been unthinkable. No conspiracy there.

I too was hoping for a V/M win, but always hoped that it would come down to skating on the day. D/W were cleaner last night. I'm pleasantly surprised the components were as close as they were as I'm sure several marks were adjusted accordingly based on the night's performances. Had the small errors gone in the other direction we would have seen the reverse results as we did at 4CC. D/W are ahead as they skated as well as they could have last night. V/M did not.

Hopefully this will take the pressure off and we'll see Tessa and Scott able to skate freely tomorrow. If they skate as well as they can there is a good chance they'll come out on top at least for that portion. It may not be enough for the overall title, but would allow then to leave on a good note. I for one am happy they skate first as they'll just be out there skating for themselves.

Bring on Carmen!

For the part I've bolded, I wish to respectfully disagree. D/W have made "small" errors in the past and NOT been penalized for them. They've been a tad off in their twizzles, no call, they've been off on footwork synchronocity, no call. They have more often than not been given the benefit of the doubt when they make small mistakes and their PCS don't suffer for it either. However, just about every time V/M make a minor mistake, they get dinged for it both in TES and PCS. I still think it's because the judges are blinded by the speed at which D/W perform most of their dances. They make it very clear that they are fast, fast, fast whereas V/M cover the same amount of ice in almost the same amount of time without looking like they are rushing. It's about the perspective that one team is faster than the other, and quite frankly, they aren't.