Planning a trip to England and France - help!

[Cheylana]

I'm taking my niece to Europe as a college graduation present. I'm also bringing my mom as a belated 70th birthday present.

My niece has her heart set on London and Paris...each of which I've been to a few times, but that's ok. However, I'm trying to tack on places I haven't yet visited. Grateful for ideas... We would depart in mid-May and have about 2 weeks to play with, so I was thinking:

- 4 full days in London (maybe an extra day for jetlag)
- 3 full days in Paris (take Eurostar from London)
- Day (or overnight) trip to Bath (I've done this before but love it)
- Day (or overnight) trip to Oxford/Yorkshire/any other interesting places?
- Day trip to visit a friend and her family in Cambridgeshire (forget the name of the town/city)
- Day (or overnight) trip to Versailles
- Overnight trip to the Provence region - maybe Avignon? Looks beautiful...

Biggest worries:
- We won't be driving at all...is this do-able by train?
- Is very basic French going to be enough for Provence (I think I'll be ok in Paris/Versailles)? I'm trying to learn some elementary French over the next couple of months.

Very grateful for thoughts & ideas!

[PDilemma]

I would highly recommend York for a day trip. When a friend and I did England ten years ago, it was our favorite day. It is some distance by train from London, though, so you might consider an overnight there. If you want something closer, Winchester is also wonderful.

I couldn't tell you about Paris, but the side trips to Bath and other cities in England are easily doable by train.

[morqet]

Most of what you've outlined for England is really easy on the train. Bath is about 2 hours on the train from London, Oxford about an hour. The only place you might have difficulty is Cambridgeshire depending on where your friend lives. If you're based in London, I would suggest that you definitely make Yorkshire an overnight trip otherwise you'd just spend all day travelling! Another option could be the Lake District - there are direct trains from Euston to Oxenholme, and it's a beautiful part of the country and quite different from any of the other places you've mentioned. The best planning tool is National Rail Enquiries - book your tickets in advance through there as well and you'll save a lot of money, especially for the longer trips.

Versailles is very easy to reach by train from Paris, either the RER C or mainline trains from Gare Montparnasse or Saint Lazare.

[Vagabond]

It's probably all doable, but I have a few thoughts:

• No need to do an overnight trip to Versailles. It's a feasible day trip.
• Even with the high-speed trains in France, an overnight trip to Provence sounds very ambitious. I'd suggest a two-night trip, spending both nights in Avignon and maybe going to Arles as a day trip from there.
• Outside of the most touristy parts of Paris, the French are generally very glad when a foreigner makes a sincere attempt to speak their language. I am sure your efforts will be appreciated.
• Oxford is an hour by train from Paddington or 100 minutes by coach from Victoria. It's definitely a feasible day trip, but if you want to go see a concert or something, you might want to return to London the next morning.
• Here's a website with free tourist advice about London: http://www.londontourist.org/
• Here's a website with information about what's on in Oxford: http://www.dailyinfo.co.uk/
• And if you decide not to do everything on your checklist, it's okay. Both of you can save something for your next trip!

Feel free to send me a private message if you have any questions.

[*Jen*]

Definitely doable by train. There's a TGV from Paris to Avignon, and you should be fine without French. A LOT has changed in France over the last 10 years. The first time I went, no one would speak English to me in Paris. The last time I went, I was annoyed because I'm now fluent in French and no one would speak anything but English to me

There's less English outside of Paris, but it's grown for sure. You'll get by

[JasperBoy]

Oh, this is right up my alley. I took my oldest grandson last year and am planning for the younger one next year. They are kids, but we did all the "must sees".
Everything you want to do in England is accessible by train or coach. Evans Evans tours even has a tour that includes London and Paris. http://www.evanevanstours.co.uk/

First, check the London Walks website. They have day trips that depart and return to London, but give walking tours at the destinations. London Walks does a trip to Bath, Stonehenge, etc.http://www.walks.com/London_Walks_Ho...n/default.aspx London Walks also has tours within London, always informal and informative. And inexpensive!

I can't help with France, but I hope to include Paris in our itinerary next year.

I second the advice to go to York. It is only 2 1/2 hours by train from London Kings Cross. http://www.visityork.org/ The train runs frequently, like every 30 minutes or less.
There is so much to do in York, and you can walk everywhere. The Shambles alone is worth the trip, not to mention the Minster, the wall, the Yorvik Museum and the chocolate story. An overnight stay would be best, and there are some wonderful old hotels in the centre of York.

If you like, PM me for more details.

[4rkidz]

I'm taking my niece to Europe as a college graduation present. I'm also bringing my mom as a belated 70th birthday present.
Very grateful for thoughts & ideas!

How exciting! We are doing a similar thing my daughter and I for her graduation (and mine).. We are gone for a month (England, France, Swiss, Germany,Austria, Italy) but our first week in England (with relatives) and I'm renting a car just for England (scary but I do it each time - I just self talk 'hug left.. hug left') but trains for rest of europe.. one place you might want to check out that we are doing is the harry potter studio tour.. I'm assuming your niece is a similar age to my daughter so likely a huge Harry Potter fan.. my family in England have all been and they says its really fabulous day trip from London.. you can catch the train from London - only takes half an hour and then there is a special double decker Harry Potter bus to the studios 15 mins away - so no need of a vehicle.. but have to book in advance as always sold out.. here is the link http://www.wbstudiotour.co.uk/en/abo...r-at-leavesden We are not going for a couple of months yet and have already booked our train from London to Paris (cheapest rate right now) and for Harry Potter..

[Cheylana]

Thanks so much for all the suggestions! Merci beaucoup!

Wow, 4rkidz, a whole month in Europe?!? Jealous!!! I wish I could take that much time off work....

I'm thinking I will add an overnight to York - I was there very briefly once as part of a tour and had wanted to spend more time there. And maybe a day trip to Oxford, but I'll leave that as an open possibility right now.

I'm still somewhat worried about Avignon...it sounds amazing but wonder if I'm being overly ambitious. Can we really get around that city without a car, and is it crazy expensive down there?

[4rkidz]

Thanks so much for all the suggestions! Merci beaucoup!

Wow, 4rkidz, a whole month in Europe?!? Jealous!!! I wish I could take that much time off work....

I'm thinking I will add an overnight to York - I was there very briefly once as part of a tour and had wanted to spend more time there. And maybe a day trip to Oxford, but I'll leave that as an open possibility right now.

I'm still somewhat worried about Avignon...it sounds amazing but wonder if I'm being overly ambitious. Can we really get around that city without a car, and is it crazy expensive down there?

I'm lucky I've been at the same job for 15 years so have built up vacation time and my other job (I needed two jobs to save for this trip) is college teaching Sept - Apr ..

Most European cities I have been around are great with public transport and quite contained and small in comparison to our cities in North America so I think you will be fine.. to save money we use markets and eat lots of pic nics with our own food and instead of restaurants go to little bistro's and cafe's.. I think you can make your own budget for any place you visit and try and get off the beaten track - figure out where the locals go and eat - not the tourists - I learned that in Italy

[Vagabond]

I'm still somewhat worried about Avignon...it sounds amazing but wonder if I'm being overly ambitious. Can we really get around that city without a car, and is it crazy expensive down there?

Central Avignon is compact and walkable. The Papal Palace, which is the absolute must-see there, is in the heart of the city.

If you wind up spending more than one night there and would like to see a bit of the countryside, an alternative to the day trip to Arles I mentioned above (or a day trip to Aix-en-Provence) would be to find some local day tour that would get you onto a coach and out of town.

[Cheylana]

Actually, Arles looks interesting. I like Van Gough!
What about Saint Remy d'Provence - is that good to visit too?
Trip planning is hard...so much to do...so little time!

[JasperBoy]

Bumping this up. Cheylana, as your departure date approaches. How is the planning going? Any luck with the French connection?

[Oreo]

Avignon is an easy city to get around in. Here's another possibility for France: the Loire Valley. You can take the train to Orlean or Tours and then do day tours to the various chateaux. You said you won't be driving, but actually once you get out in the French countryside, driving is very easy. Don't worry about rudimentary French, you'll get by just fine. Visitors come to France from every country on earth, and in the more visited areas, the French are used to figuring out people's needs.

[dinakt]

It's hard for me not to start phapsodizing about England, I love it.
Please go to Cantenbury. Catch the Cathedral as the sun goes down. It is magic.
I also loved Winchester. Gorgeous little town, close to London; beautiful Cathedral. Jane Austen is buried there.
Both places are easily doable by train from London.
If I had to pick one, I would pick Cantenbury. With Chaucer's Tales and Thomas Becket assasination, it is just steeped in history.
Oxford is amazing, as well. Have not been to Cambridge ( yet, I hope))

Do you use Tripadvisor? I find the info there quite invaluable.