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  1. #21

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    LOL at picking on Russian girls.
    I think Radionova is fabulous, and has a great performance ability. Sakhanovich is fabulous as well, with a very different style. What's the point of choosing between 2 most artistically talented Russian Juniors ( arguably, sure -just IMO)? Russian Junior Nationals was one of the most exciting competitions of the year, and I am normally not that into watching children- exactly because their personalities do not project on ice yet. But Radionova and Sakhanovich have it all- I hope they have great success for many years to come.
    Last edited by dinakt; 03-11-2013 at 07:32 PM.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  2. #22
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    I suspect they will have great success---Russia reminds me of the US ladies in the 90's and the Japanese ladies in the 00's. If they don't already speak of the tough competition just to make the podium at nationals they will soon. And I happen to be interested in most of Ironlady's provocative posts---even when I don't agree with them.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcg View Post
    Wait until this girl goes through puberty to judge her potential.
    Yeah! Like they did with Oksana Baiul .
    (Yes, I know she's Ukrainian.)

  4. #24
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    I didn't notice a thing about Radionova's lines. I just noticed a young lady with potential who loves to perform, has a huge smile on her face, does all her elements and seemed very in tune to her music... which is something many seniors have trouble with.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Possibly Elena Radionova has the worst leg lines since Surya Bonaly. Do you think time, effort, and pressure from judges will help her correct this? Or are terrible knees and lines going to become an acceptable thing-- as long as you have the jumps?
    For a young skater she has very good lines. There is toe point and extension there and I have absolutely no problem with that aspect of her skating. She has long legs which also make her legs look a bit gangly but she is still growing.

    However I agree with many others that picking on young skaters like you are is totally inappropriate.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by liv View Post
    I didn't notice a thing about Radionova's lines. I just noticed a young lady with potential who loves to perform, has a huge smile on her face, does all her elements and seemed very in tune to her music... which is something many seniors have trouble with.
    Totally agree. There are so many other positive and lovely aspects to her skating which she should be commended on.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  7. #27

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    unfortunately there isn't a mark for lines/positions etc.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    unfortunately there isn't a mark for lines/positions etc.
    It is considered under the PE/IN mark which includes aspects such as posture and leg line.

    Also you can deduct from GOE on leg line in spins and spirals. Particularly camel spins.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    It is considered under the PE/IN mark which includes aspects such as posture and leg line.

    Also you can deduct from GOE on leg line in spins and spirals. Particularly camel spins.
    it is a pity that doesn't seem to be applied to Yuna's hideous spiral/layback.

  10. #30
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    She just looks like she is always in a rush to my and waves her arms about for no good reason.

    But she is young....no need to worry about her lines yet! she has to survive the puberty monster first!

  11. #31
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    I think criticizing Radionova for her lines (or whatever else) is perfectly fine, it doesn't matter that she is 14...she is junior world champ.

    Creating an entire thread to talk about Radionova's lines (or Lipnitskaya's gloves, or Corwin's tiaras) is questionably excessive. And attention-grabbing, which seems somewhat successful.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Possibly Elena Radionova has the worst leg lines since Surya Bonaly. Do you think time, effort, and pressure from judges will help her correct this? Or are terrible knees and lines going to become an acceptable thing-- as long as you have the jumps?

    Elena Radionova JGPF 2012 Gala

    Elena Radionova 2013 Russian Nationals SP
    First of all, I find this thread to borderline shameful. This girl is so young and talented and fresh and new! Why would you think that she should splash on the scene with the entire package?

    I got to watch Adelina Sotnikova practice last week and though I think she does a couple moves below her potential, she's a hard working focused young lady who i gained tremendous respect for. A thread like this in my mind should really be reserved for a skater who has completed her change and perhaps still has not improved. A 14 year old girl with a superb arsenal of triple jumps... consistently landed... no. Witnessing the excruciatingly difficult hard work these athletes do changed my view somewhat. They are people and they usually are pretty good people in my experience. Lets let her grow up a little and develop before we launch diatribes. The courage a singles skater has to stand alone in front of the masses and have their lifes work judged takes guts i might never have... although in another life I was Patrick Chan... hehehehe kidding

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    it is a pity that doesn't seem to be applied to Yuna's hideous spiral/layback.
    Yu na seems to get a pass from the judges on the spiral.

    It's not applied to pairs skater like Cadee Denney. She has some of the ugliest positions in lifts.
    Last edited by Vash01; 03-12-2013 at 05:46 AM.

  14. #34

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    I obviously don't think it's shameful to ask what people think about her and question if the judges will penalize her leg line enough for her to improve it, but you make your point well. We should be respectful and appreciative of the skater. I fear the sport could go in the direction where all you need are jumps, and positions and line are incidental. She is again the junior world champion, and ladies is often a sport of youth.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by arakwafan2006 View Post
    First of all, I find this thread to borderline shameful. This girl is so young and talented and fresh and new! Why would you think that she should splash on the scene with the entire package?

    I got to watch Adelina Sotnikova practice last week and though I think she does a couple moves below her potential, she's a hard working focused young lady who i gained tremendous respect for. A thread like this in my mind should really be reserved for a skater who has completed her change and perhaps still has not improved. A 14 year old girl with a superb arsenal of triple jumps... consistently landed... no. Witnessing the excruciatingly difficult hard work these athletes do changed my view somewhat. They are people and they usually are pretty good people in my experience. Lets let her grow up a little and develop before we launch diatribes. The courage a singles skater has to stand alone in front of the masses and have their lifes work judged takes guts i might never have... although in another life I was Patrick Chan... hehehehe kidding
    Totally agree. I would rep you if I could.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    I obviously don't think it's shameful to ask what people think about her and question if the judges will penalize her leg line enough for her to improve it, but you make your point well. We should be respectful and appreciative of the skater. I fear the sport could go in the direction where all you need are jumps, and positions and line are incidental. She is again the junior world champion, and ladies is often a sport of youth.
    I guess I considered it "picking on Elena" because I do not see such bad problems with Radionova's line. I'll try to answer with hopefully more substance than before.
    I think the examples you chose are not the best examples of what Radionova's line is at the moment. Her LP ( I use Junior Worlds as an example) shows her lines to better advantage http://youtu.be/BnlHq18c0Fk
    There are quite a few nice positions coming out of jumps, and in spins. There are finished gestures that are well coordinated with music throughout. There is no balletic extension in every move, and she can work on that; she is barely 14. What I see, and what is, I believe, a better indication of things to come, is the desire to give meaning, to "present" a gesture in music. I think a good line often comes from that, because there is a desire to let a gesture speak expressively; an unfinished gesture cannot "speak". I am not going to veer off into criticizing Seniors now; but Radionova is hardly the worst offender.
    The examples you give. One is an EX, which I discard; an EX of a- then- 13-year-old is not an indicator of anything.
    The SP is more problematic. I am not too fond of it; it is busy and rather chaotic. I fault choreographer; as for the style- I imagine it's supposed to be more "modern dance/ sci-fi theme", so a broken line might be allowed and even desirable. The problem as I see it is that there are so many small gestures that they need to be rushed; thus they never reach their most expressive point before they are changed. Hopefully next year Elena is given smth. that will allow her to work on extention. I would not panic, though, until she is 18-19 ( or at least not until she enters Senior circuit full-time, which is not until 2014-15 if I remember right).
    Apart from Radionova's case, though- I wish line and precision of movement were given more advantage in PCS; but let's start with Seniors.
    Last edited by dinakt; 03-12-2013 at 07:25 AM.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  17. #37

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    I think there should be a bonus mark for smiling in joy!

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    I think there should be a bonus mark for smiling in joy!
    what if one is skating to Titanic?

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by arakwafan2006 View Post
    A thread like this in my mind should really be reserved for a skater who has completed her change and perhaps still has not improved.
    Like all the threads about Mira Leung few years ago ? lol

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    what if one is skating to Titanic?
    Melt the ice and they will drown.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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