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  1. #921
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdonavan View Post
    Lol...most would have thought that before 2014 US nationals too...
    Quote Originally Posted by apollo13 View Post
    This
    Yup.

    Happy for Z&B. They should have been going anyway.

  2. #922
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbatgirl View Post
    Not necessarily, with John still being rusty coming off his injury. Z/B may not have the biggest tricks but they were clearly well-trained at Nats and Olys. (I do hope I have not just jinxed them for Worlds!)
    I think the key phrase in olympic's post was "could've placed higher". I understand why a couple Florida people are getting defensive in this thread, but there's nothing inaccurate in olympic's statement that D/C had the potential to do better than Z/B at Worlds. Just by looking at scores alone-- Z/B haven't ever hit the 170 mark internationally despite skating relatively cleanly several times, and D/C have scored substantially higher (10 pts or more) than Z/B's personal best score in every international event they've done from 2012 onward. I'm sure Z/B will represent the US well like they always do, but there's plenty of evidence that D/C could've scored better.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lacey View Post
    Isn't it kind of strange that we never hear anything from D/C's rink, no gossip. If D/C used to be together romantically and supposedly have now broken up personally, I just kind of assumed that that might also be the end of the skating partnership too.
    Less gossip on this forum is a good thing, I would think. It seems like every season we hear that D/C's romantic relationship is off, yet others claim it's on. D/C themselves have never been very open about it, so it's hard to tell who is right and who is wrong, but regardless, it's never seemed to have an effect on their skating. As far as their skating partnership, I believe Caydee gave a quote to a Florida newspaper sometime after Nationals that Worlds would be a good last competition for her and John to finish on. It wasn't clear if she meant to finish the season or to finish their partnership, but it seemed that the intent was to at least compete at Worlds. It's a shame that it didn't end up that way.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lacey View Post
    I think it's kind of a shame because they were strong competitors, she could land anything like a cat, and I don't think they ever quite reached their full potential. They could have learned so much more about elegance and they surely could have used much better choreography. OTOH they chose to stay with that coach so they probably had peaked.
    I don't think this is a fair statement (although I do agree with the gist of the first sentence). This season, D/C had both programs choreographed by Marcotte, who is a good choreographer (although not without flaw, but nobody is). They ended up scrapping both programs, which according to John's quotes in an IceNetwork article was a decision based on the input of several people. Marcotte helped them spruce up the choreo of their POTO program, which had been choreographed by someone else. Program decisions don't lie solely on coaches.

    Sometimes I think fans expect too much too fast, or they make judgments without truly considering how much goes into creating programs. D/C were both extremely rough around the edges several years ago with former partners, and it's evident a lot of work has been done just to get them to this point (they've made nice improvements). If they couldn't handle more intricate choreography this year especially with John coming off his hip injury that knocked them out for most of last season, that's understandable. In fact, watering down choreography for various reasons is something that is seen regularly throughout skating, it's certainly not just a D/C issue. If they aren't the most elegant team they could possibly be right now, that's also understandable. But it's likely not possible to smooth out their "truckdriver" look completely.

    "That coach", by the way, does a lot to help put US pair skating on the map internationally (which, as we have seen, is a very difficult thing). I don't find all the criticism in this thread to be fair, but even Zoueva/Shpilband get an unusual amount of hate on this forum despite the amount of success their dance teams have had, so I suppose it's to be expected. In general, forum discussion tends to thrive off negativity, which I think is fine, but only to an extent. As a huge fan of pair skating, I have a great deal of respect for Sappenfield. There have been only 3 US pairs that have won more than one medal on the GP in the past decade, and 2 of them have been Sappenfield's teams (one of which is D/C). She had the highest finishing US pair at Worlds in 2011, 2012, and 2013, as well as the highest finishing US pair at Jr Worlds in 2007, 2008, 2010, 2012, and 2014. Pairs is such a difficult discipline, it's such a challenge to form well-matched teams that stay together for a good length of time. She does a tremendous amount of good for US pairs and should not be bashed for every issue that D/C have and every weakness that isn't immediately fixed. There are no perfect coaches, and most weaknesses (the ones that are fixable) take time to improve.
    Last edited by stjeaskategym; 03-22-2014 at 10:55 AM.

  3. #923
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    Caydee's injury is real. You could hear the initial screaming from the rink foyer.

    Gossip is nobody's business!

    Questioning the injury? My thoughts on this are not polite enough to publish!

  4. #924
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    I think the key phrase in olympic's post was "could've placed higher". I understand why a couple Florida people are getting defensive in this thread, but there's nothing inaccurate in olympic's statement that D/C had the potential to do better than Z/B at Worlds. Just by looking at scores alone-- Z/B haven't ever hit the 170 mark internationally despite skating relatively cleanly several times, and D/C have scored substantially higher (10 pts or more) than Z/B's personal best score in every international event they've done from 2012 onward. I'm sure Z/B will represent the US well like they always do, but there's plenty of evidence that D/C could've scored better.
    Thanks. This indeed was what I was trying to say. If people want 3 spots for the US in pairs (which would have still been a long shot w/ a health D/C), then the ideal spots would've been filled by C/S and D/C. But, unfortunately, that won't happen

  5. #925
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    I'm for D/C.
    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    "That coach", by the way, does a lot to help put US pair skating on the map internationally (which, as we have seen, is a very difficult thing).
    ...
    Pairs is such a difficult discipline, it's such a challenge to form well-matched teams that stay together for a good length of time. I don't find all the criticism in this thread to be fair, but even Zoueva/Shpilband get an unusual amount of hate on this forum despite the amount of success their dance teams have had, so I suppose it's to be expected.
    Sappenfield has her strengths as a coach, but the US is doing no better in pairs than it was before she started coaching. If a team starts challenging for a medal at Worlds, then she might have a claim. And the comparison to Shpilband - who coached three different teams to a world medal after not having any teams in the top five for two decades - is absurd.

    Furthermore, one of the reasons pairs frequently don't stay together is that young girls are paired with fully grown men, and then, shockingly, the pairing can't continue when the girl grows. And Sappenfield is as guilty of this as anybody.

    I don't disagree with your main point that she's done a lot for D/C. But at the same time, there's no need to give her credit for things she doesn't deserve.

  6. #926
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    This is really too bad. First John's injury, then missing the Olympics, and now this. I'm so sorry for them

    Why do people always want to insinuate a skater's injury isn't real? I don't get it.

  7. #927
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    My heart goes out to D/C. As my mom would have said "if they didn't have bad luck they wouldn't have any luck at all"

    I was looking forward to their performances at Worlds. I wish Caydee the best as she heals and rehabs.

  8. #928
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    the us needs 3 spots in pairs like australia needs a 2nd spot in anything
    I feel like I'm in a dream. But it can't be a dream because there are no boy dancers!

  9. #929
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    Quote Originally Posted by insideedgeua View Post
    Caydee's injury is real. You could hear the initial screaming from the rink foyer.
    Very sad for them. Terrible timing.

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedwitch View Post
    And the comparison to Shpilband - who coached three different teams to a world medal after not having any teams in the top five for two decades - is absurd.
    I think you missed my point, which was that even a coaching tandem as decorated as Zoueva/Shpilband can't always escape heavy criticism from forum posters, so it seems that it's just the nature of message boards to be overly (and sometimes unfairly) critical at times. I definitely wasn't claiming that the US has had anywhere near the same amount of success in pairs as we have had in dance.

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedwitch View Post
    Furthermore, one of the reasons pairs frequently don't stay together is that young girls are paired with fully grown men, and then, shockingly, the pairing can't continue when the girl grows. And Sappenfield is as guilty of this as anybody.
    I wouldn't really blame coaches for this. It's one of the unique challenges of pair skating, especially as the discipline has become quite athletic and requires a good height difference (dance teams can get away with much smaller height differences). Pair girls tend to be ready and strong enough for the higher levels of pairs at younger ages than boys are. Physically, boys are rarely ready for Jr or Sr pairs until their 20s. Even the US's Novice National Champion pair boy is in his 20s and is already aged out of Jrs internationally. If the ISU ends up dropping the age limit for a Jr pair boy below 21, there is concern that it could just about kill Jr pairs worldwide. Finding a suitable pair partner is difficult enough as it is, and sometimes a teenage girl has a choice between skating with an adult male much older than her or not skating pairs at all. And while I'm sure most adult pair guys would prefer to skate with an adult girl, the options are way too limited for that to always be the case. Pair partnerships in which the girl is quite young and not fully grown are often about developing each partners' pair skills rather than something that would definitely make sense long term.
    Last edited by stjeaskategym; 03-23-2014 at 09:49 AM.

  10. #930

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    Quote Originally Posted by my little pony View Post
    the us needs 3 spots in pairs like australia needs a 2nd spot in anything
    Chantelle Kerry's legal team will be contacting you shortly

  11. #931

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    Quote Originally Posted by ioana View Post
    Chantelle Kerry's legal team will be contacting you shortly
    but if the ladies had earned 2 spots we wouldn't have been able to mock that situation

  12. #932

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    So, Marissa & Simon drew to skate in the final SP group at Worlds, they take the ice right after Savchenko/Szolkowy. Great draw, let's hope they skate well!!

    On a gossipy note, it's been reported in the Canadian pairs thread that Purich/Tran have split . . . I have to admit, I wish we could somehow lure Tran to the U.S.! I imagine he wouldn't want to deal with another citizenship mess, and I can't blame him. But wouldn't a tryout between him & Mary Beth Marley, for example, be interesting??

  13. #933

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    Quote Originally Posted by clairecloutier View Post
    So, Marissa & Simon drew to skate in the final SP group at Worlds, they take the ice right after Savchenko/Szolkowy. Great draw, let's hope they skate well!!

    On a gossipy note, it's been reported in the Canadian pairs thread that Purich/Tran have split . . . I have to admit, I wish we could somehow lure Tran to the U.S.! I imagine he wouldn't want to deal with another citizenship mess, and I can't blame him. But wouldn't a tryout between him & Mary Beth Marley, for example, be interesting??
    Nice to be in the final group, but I'm not sure I'd want to skate after the Germans if I were them. That's a lot of pressure!

    Hands off Tran - you send your good American girl to us! We don't make it too hard to sort citizenship out here - Weaver and Gilles both managed

  14. #934

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    Mervin Tran and Robin Szolkowy have similar body types. Let me know if Tran tweets from Chemnitz, or Aliona from Montreal.

  15. #935

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    Quote Originally Posted by yfbg722 View Post
    Nice to be in the final group, but I'm not sure I'd want to skate after the Germans if I were them. That's a lot of pressure!

    Yes, but it's better than skating first in the entire event, which they got stuck with last year! Much better!

    It's hard to resist the temptingness of Tran :-), but I think you'll get your wish, I doubt he'd want to deal with U.S. citizenship issues.

  16. #936

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    Quote Originally Posted by kirkbiggestfan View Post
    Mervin Tran and Robin Szolkowy have similar body types. Let me know if Tran tweets from Chemnitz, or Aliona from Montreal.
    Eeee, could it be possible? 7-year age gap between them . . . would either of them care?

  17. #937

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    Denney/Coughlin article (they were interviewed a week before Caydee's injury): http://figureskatersonline.com/news/...-a-blessing-2/

    Zhang/Bartholomay will skate their SP at 9:41 pm Eastern time tonight & Castelli/Shnapir at 12:35 am.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  18. #938

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    Kaitlin Budd (age 17) and Nikita Cheban (21) are listed on Icepartnersearch. They were 8th in Junior at Nationals and 9th at Junior Worlds. He has aged out of ISU Junior events.

    ETA:
    I missed listing Madeleine Gallagher (turns 16 in April) in my earlier splits/IPS post #902. She was 6th in Novice at 2014 Nationals with her partner of 5 years, J. Horton, who has retired. They were the U.S. Intermediate champs in 2012.

    ETA #2: Castelli/Shnapir have been invited to skate in the Worlds gala exhibition on Sunday in Japan.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 03-29-2014 at 10:45 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  19. #939

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    ETA #2: Castelli/Shnapir have been invited to skate in the Worlds gala exhibition on Sunday in Japan.
    Good. I'm glad they will end Worlds on a nice note with their fabulous Royals in front on a Japan audience who already knows how great they actually are from their many NHK appearances. Their awesome season deserves a happier ending than the one they got in the free skate.
    Last edited by lauren329; 03-30-2014 at 02:28 AM.

  20. #940

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    Quote Originally Posted by lauren329 View Post
    Good. I'm glad they will end Worlds on a nice note with their fabulous Royals in front on a Japan audience who already knows how great they actually are from their many NHK appearances. Their amazing season deserves a happier ending than the one they got in the free skate.
    That's nice.

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