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  1. #841
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    I just got to watch the penultimate group of the Pairs LP today (Saturday AM) and again watched the IN ON-Demand Video of the final group. My impressions:

    Having watched everything, I absolutely find it a travesty that S/K (w/ 2 small mistakes - hand down and 2-foot) and D/F (clean) were 12 - 15 points behind D/C (w/ mistakes - 1x-1t-1t) and Z/B. I realize that Z/B were clean and inspired and arguments can be made for the standings the way they were, but neither team was THAT far ahead. C'mon!

    And I would rather watch S/K's huge, sweeping elements than Z/B's teeny throws, jumps and twist any day (I think Judges at Sochi are NOT going to mark them kindly). S/K have issues w/ choreography and interpretation, but I also find Z/B so generic. I even preferred K/O w/ 2 mistakes.

    Between D/C and Z/B, I would have still gone w/ D/C. Bigger elements, etc.

    IDK, it could be that Z/B just happens to be my least favorite team - Clean or not. There is nothing interesting / inspiring to me in their movement across the ice - whether it be grand elements or WOW choreography or interpretation. I'm sorry if that's harsh.

    My take is that the judges probably didn't want to deal w/ any backlash of leaving a clean, inspired performance as the final performance in the final group off the Olympic team

  2. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    I just got to watch the penultimate group of the Pairs LP today (Saturday AM) and again watched the IN ON-Demand Video of the final group. My impressions:

    Having watched everything, I absolutely find it a travesty that S/K (w/ 2 small mistakes - hand down and 2-foot) and D/F (clean) were 12 - 15 points behind D/C (w/ mistakes - 1x-1t-1t) and Z/B. I realize that Z/B were clean and inspired and arguments can be made for the standings the way they were, but neither team was THAT far ahead. C'mon!
    I thought the same thing after watching Group 2! They definitely did not benefit from the hyper-inflation that was the standard for the last group. I thought S/K and D/F were both severely underscored (compared to the last group; though actually relatively fairly otherwise). This was especially unfair for S/K, who were really very close to the top 4 after the SP but really got screwed having to go first in Group 2 ... though personally I enjoyed Denney/Frazier's FS more this time and thought they were faster (judging by my computer screen anyway), but they were pretty much out of it after the short so the bump in score inflation between the groups made less of a difference for them imo.

  3. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Yeah, figureit, because S/K certainly haven't gotten any support from the USFS... Like how they didn't get to go the Cup of Nice after just teaming up (which got them to NHK), or how they didn't win the LP last year and go to Worlds.

    Bottom line, they didn't help themselves this year. No clean competitions. Whatever the reason (and whatever your relationship to them is), if they are thinking in the off season about how screwed they got by the USFS or how their marks weren't inflated enough, they have bigger problems than their lack of consistency and their boring programs.
    If you read my previous post I am interested in pairs I think it is a beautiful difficult discipline but you seem to personalize it ? I love the look of S/K (who I think will be our first American pair to have a quad twist and have HUGE elements, a relationship on the ice only that can be improved on) and also of K/O they connect and have a beautiful line with class. They just seem to be what US pairs needs for the future an have HUGE potential Internationally. Who knows what any of the pairs are thinking especially in the off season?? DO you know?? these are just opinions like everyone else so not sure why you are attacking me personally for having an opinion?? Maybe it is because you have a relationship or are a hater of them? NO idea?

    They I think got two of the hardest GP on the circuit when you are up against World and Olympic medalists you kind of know where you are going to place no matter the skate. Due to injury that hurt them but they rebounded at Nationals and that was admirable. I also think competing against such great pairs will help them in the future being use to a World stage. K/O had some mistakes in the long but I think they have HUGE potential Internationally as well and I can't wait for them to be on the ice with the top World teams too. They have confidence and a beauty that will only improve as well.

    The National Champ(s) were protected by being sent to the easy GP's in an Olympic year as it has always been for the most part no big surprise there so they can medal (just an opinion as well). I still think K/O, S/K and even D/F (even though they are young and very bouncy need maturing) have the lock on the future if they stay in but who knows pairs don't usually stay together that have this potential.

    I happen to not enjoy the skating of C/S because they seem to hate each other and are just not beautiful to watch as far as line but they do have power and strength in that (opinion) I don't mind Z/B but they are very weak in the big elements and relating to each other they also had horrible competitions this year but seem to love skating together. Lack of consistency ? not any more than a lot of the talented teams hmm like the Russians and Germans at Euro's it happens.

    USFS is political and make political moves year to year that is not news? Sometimes you are given a lot and sometimes not this Nationals is a good example of that (ie:women, pairs) and even that I find interesting. Fair or not fair? Doesn't matter it is whatever it is. It was interesting though that watching the Spectacular S/K were the only medalists not shown and that I was looking forward to but there are a lot of competitors I would love to see exhibition numbers from that don't happen.

    How would any of us know what S/K or any of the pairs are thinking in the off season that is a really weird and mean thing to say and unnecessary as well. None of us knows what will happen or what any of the teams are thinking in the off season? I wish i did know. Who knows who will be teams even?

    Opinions about pairs in this forum is interesting to discuss and I personally respect the comments as there have been some great ones made and I have learned a lot. Again the team is picked and USA is supported in my book it is done. What will happen in the off season is and will be so interesting!! As who knows?? I just hope that at least three of the senior teams stay together and continue to improve as others have said pairs is getting more exciting!

    Go USA!!

  4. #844

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    If S/K have a quad twist, they not only didn't show it at Nationals; they only added enough features to their triple twist to get level 2 on it. But they do have a very lovely triple twist

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    I still say that Chris came back way to soon from his injury and they were never the same after he got hurt.

  6. #846
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    ^Probably, but they looked decent by Nationals LP. Here's hoping they make a mark this week at 4CC's. I'd like to see them medal

  7. #847
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    ^I thought S/K looked fine at Cup of Russia, too. It was one of the better US pair showings on the GP this season. CoR was arguably the best pairs event on this year's GP, and S/K ended up behind several top teams in 6th, but their score would have been enough to medal at NHK. They're still pretty much a new team, and this year is the first season where they are going into competitions with real expectations. That can take some getting used to, and maybe that could help explain some of their inconsistencies in addition to his injury situation (which clearly affected them). But to be fair, D/C were the only American pair to show much consistency on the GP this year.


    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    If S/K have a quad twist, they not only didn't show it at Nationals; they only added enough features to their triple twist to get level 2 on it. But they do have a very lovely triple twist
    I don't believe anyone said S/K have a quad twist, and I don't really hope for them to try a quad either. Their triple twist is easily one of the best and most aesthetically pleasing twists in the world. One thing they could work on is adding a difficult entry before the twist, and then they'd receive Lvl 3 for it. Actually, I'm somewhat confused about the twist levels, because to me it appears that D/C go for the same features as S/K in their twist (clean catch & the man's arms dropping), yet D/C regularly receive Lvl 3 while S/K regularly receive Lvl 2. I'm quite familiar with the pairs rules, but I must be missing something here.

  8. #848

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    ^I thought S/K looked fine at Cup of Russia, too. It was one of the better US pair showings on the GP this season. CoR was arguably the best pairs event on this year's GP, and S/K ended up behind several top teams in 6th, but their score would have been enough to medal at NHK. They're still pretty much a new team, and this year is the first season where they are going into competitions with real expectations. That can take some getting used to, and maybe that could help explain some of their inconsistencies in addition to his injury situation (which clearly affected them). But to be fair, D/C were the only American pair to show much consistency on the GP this year.




    I don't believe anyone said S/K have a quad twist, and I don't really hope for them to try a quad either. Their triple twist is easily one of the best and most aesthetically pleasing twists in the world. One thing they could work on is adding a difficult entry before the twist, and then they'd receive Lvl 3 for it. Actually, I'm somewhat confused about the twist levels, because to me it appears that D/C go for the same features as S/K in their twist (clean catch & the man's arms dropping), yet D/C regularly receive Lvl 3 while S/K regularly receive Lvl 2. I'm quite familiar with the pairs rules, but I must be missing something here.
    Is Caydee getting the split before rotating? That gives them another level.

  9. #849

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    Quote Originally Posted by figureit View Post

    They I think got two of the hardest GP on the circuit when you are up against World and Olympic medalists you kind of know where you are going to place no matter the skate. Due to injury that hurt them but they rebounded at Nationals and that was admirable. I also think competing against such great pairs will help them in the future being use to a World stage. K/O had some mistakes in the long but I think they have HUGE potential Internationally as well and I can't wait for them to be on the ice with the top World teams too. They have confidence and a beauty that will only improve as well.

    The National Champ(s) were protected by being sent to the easy GP's in an Olympic year as it has always been for the most part no big surprise there so they can medal (just an opinion as well). I still think K/O, S/K and even D/F (even though they are young and very bouncy need maturing) have the lock on the future if they stay in but who knows pairs don't usually stay together that have this potential.

    I happen to not enjoy the skating of C/S because they seem to hate each other and are just not beautiful to watch as far as line but they do have power and strength in that (opinion) I don't mind Z/B but they are very weak in the big elements and relating to each other they also had horrible competitions this year but seem to love skating together. Lack of consistency ? not any more than a lot of the talented teams hmm like the Russians and Germans at Euro's it happens.

    USFS is political and make political moves year to year that is not news? Sometimes you are given a lot and sometimes not this Nationals is a good example of that (ie:women, pairs) and even that I find interesting. Fair or not fair? Doesn't matter it is whatever it is. It was interesting though that watching the Spectacular S/K were the only medalists not shown and that I was looking forward to but there are a lot of competitors I would love to see exhibition numbers from that don't happen.
    Go USA!!
    The National Champions were not protected at all on the GP. Skate America had a very tough field with V&T, MTM & M, Russian S&K, Berton & Hotarek and Caydee and John. USFSA sent both of these teams knowing it would be an uphill battle for bronze and that both teams would not medal. I don't think they really cared which one did and ultimately neither did. NHK- the field was a bit easier but you still had V&T and two strong Chinese pairs. I would say the CoC field was maybe marginally harder. S&K were hardly thrown to the wolves and Marissa & Simon were far less protected and promoted than other National champions like Max & Ashley.

    I also don't get this notion that Marissa & Simon hate each other. Is it just because they've been candid in interviews that their relationship has been up and down? And NBC now needs to mention that on every rare occasion they show pairs. Look at the pictures of the Kiss & Cry after they won, the press conference after the Short Program where he says nothing could break them up and their interviews from Boston on IceNetwork. What I see is two people who probably are pretty different personality wise but know each other well & have a tremendous amount of respect for each other. They're obviously not in love, they're probably not best friends but they seem like totally committed partners with a lot of history.

    As for S&K, I think the injury played a role but I also think they buckled a little under the pressure of being in the Olympic picture. Last year they skated like they had nothing to lose because they had nothing to lose as a first year team. This year, with a lot on the line, they were nervy & cautious. She in particular seemed to make mental mistakes. Even in their clean free skate, they were lovely but slow and cautious. Denney & Frazier who followed them were a lot more dynamic in person even if S/K have the aesthetics going for them.
    Last edited by lauren329; 01-21-2014 at 01:18 PM.

  10. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by yfbg722 View Post
    Is Caydee getting the split before rotating? That gives them another level.
    She must be, but I'm puzzled by it. There is a clear attempt at a split, but she bends her leg quite a bit to help launch herself in the air, so it's not really that much of a split. I could understand giving teams a level for that, but I don't see why S/K wouldn't receive the same level considering their split looks similar, with the main difference being that Alexa's leg isn't as bent. It doesn't look to me that her legs are at any less of the required 45 degree angle than Caydee's, but every judging panel this year has thought differently than me. The only thing I can think of is that most video from this season shows D/C's twist from behind, so maybe the 45 degree angle is more apparent from the front? But I just don't see it.
    Last edited by stjeaskategym; 01-21-2014 at 05:05 AM.

  11. #851

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    She must be, but I'm puzzled by it. There is a clear attempt at a split, but she bends her leg quite a bit to help launch herself in the air, so it's not really that much of a split. I could understand giving teams a level for that, but I don't see why S/K wouldn't receive the same level considering their split looks similar, with the main difference being that Alexa's leg isn't as bent. It doesn't look to me that her legs are at any less of the required 45 degree angle than Caydee's, but every judging panel this year has thought differently than me. The only thing I can think of is that most video from this season shows D/C's twist from behind, so maybe the 45 degree angle is more apparent from the front? But I just don't see it.
    They're not my favourite American team so I have to confess I haven't watched them even once this year lol.

  12. #852

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    Quote Originally Posted by lauren329 View Post
    I also don't get this notion that Marissa & Simon hate each other. Is it just because they've been candid in interviews that their relationship has been up and down? Look at the pictures of the Kiss & Cry after they won, the press conference after the Short Program where he says nothing could break them up and their interviews from Boston on IceNetwork. What I see is two people who probably are pretty different personality wise but know each other well & have a tremendous amount of respect for each other.

    Agreed. I don't think Marissa & Simon hate each other, and I don't see any tension in their actual performances. What I do see is a bit of lack of connection between them. At times they still skate like 2 separate people out there on the ice, not a full pair. But I don't see hatred/dislike. I think people just enjoy the drama of "the team that hates each other!" and take it & run with it.

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    So going forward what US teams have the most potential in the coming years? I still say S/K are out best bets to be a top 6 team if they can get it together. I still say he took the ice way to soon and they should have never competed at Ondrej Nepela. They should have bypassed that event and used the month they had until COC to train and let him get stronger.

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    I want to give a shout out to Marissa and Simon. Each skate in Sochi has been a new personal best. They are doing such a great job and wearing the title of US Champions so well!! I am so happy for them!

    Add their performances to what Kayne and O'Shea did at 4 CC and the future of US pairs is looking up!

  15. #855

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    Any news on pairs splits post-Nationals?

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    I know of one major one, but it is hush for now...

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    Quote Originally Posted by johndockley92 View Post
    I know of one major one, but it is hush for now...
    I'm already and I don't even know who it is. I have to quit getting attached to these teams.

  18. #858

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    Has Matt Blackmer found a partner?

  19. #859
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    Quote Originally Posted by johndockley92 View Post
    I know of one major one, but it is hush for now...
    Hmmm. It can't be C/S or Z/B. It can't be S/K. They are still a couple AFAIK. It can't be K/O. They are hitting their stride in a major way

    Major would be D/C - He has wanted to retire since 2011, hasn't he?

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Hmmm. It can't be C/S or Z/B. It can't be S/K. They are still a couple AFAIK. It can't be K/O. They are hitting their stride in a major way

    Major would be D/C - He has wanted to retire since 2011, hasn't he?

    I'll bet it's D/C. Alexa Scimeca has just tweeted a couple things in the last few days about her & Chris being more in love than ever and how they're looking forward to the new season along with their coach. So it can't be them. I doubt it's Z/B. And I do think with John's injury last year and his age, the likelihood of him & Caydee making it to 2018 is pretty low.

    I really, really hope it's not C/S. As we watch this Olympics, they're getting so much better and starting to come into their own, I really hope they keep going now and don't retire or split. They're just now starting to reach their potential, finally!! But with their history and Simon being already 26, they've probably considered retiring. I just really, really hope they don't.

    Recently there was an article on Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier in a FL newspaper, linked to here somewhere--anyhow, in it, their rink director mentioned the possibility of Denney/Frazier making Worlds this year due to "retirements." I was thinking--there must be something being talked about in skating circles, otherwise why would she say that?

    johndockley92, can't you give us some clue??? . . . I hate this suspense. :-(

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