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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    MBM has no right to tell her ex-partner what he can and cannot skate to with his new partner. I agree with the poster who said she has buyers remorse. She should just be happy that the ex-partner she broke up with is moving on, hopefully she will learn a lot from this.
    Sure Mary Beth can't tell Rockne what to do, but she has every right to have an opinion, especially pertaining to her program that she shared with him. I'm not surprised at all that she feels the way she does (although I'm surprised she chose to publicly air her opinion on it). Even in this crazy skating world, there are certain things you just don't do, and reusing parts of a program from a partnership that existed less than a year ago should be one of them.

    I doubt this is about money, and I will reiterate that Rockne himself never mentioned money, it was just a suggestion in this thread. These skaters wouldn't be competing at this level if choreographing one program put them in the poorhouse. They are prepared to spend money on anything and everything. Rockne has money, he just spends it on what he wants to spend it on. And he has every right to do that, of course. But it doesn't mean that people can't have opinions on this issue.

    At the very least, Rockne could have called Mary Beth before the program debuted and given her the heads up as to what was going on, explaining why this was necessary, etc. But based on her interview, they no longer communicate. I guess that is understandable given that he was an adult and she was a teenager when they skated together... But it's also pretty sad to spend nearly every day with someone for a couple years in an emotionally charged skating discipline that is predicated on having a strong relationship with another person, and then to have so much disregard for that person and the partnership that you can't even call her to inform her that you intend to reuse her own program. I think blindsiding her like that comes across as a bit of a slap in the face. Even an email or a text would have been better than nothing, and I would have at least done that, no matter how bitter and angry I felt about her ending the partnership (and I'm sure I would have felt angry, even if Mary Beth left for very good reasons). To me it's just the right and respectful thing to do. But obviously, none of us can tell Rockne what to do or how to feel about his partnerships. All we are doing on a message board is sharing opinions.

    I even feel for Lindsay a bit in this situation. She was obviously accepting enough to go through with it (that is, if she really had a say in the matter), but I wouldn't be surprised if part of her felt like a fill-in. But oh well.
    Last edited by stjeaskategym; 08-05-2013 at 07:38 PM.

  2. #342

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post

    I even feel for Lindsay a bit in this situation. She was obviously accepting enough to go through of it (that is, if she really had a say in the matter), but I wouldn't be surprised if part of her felt like a fill-in. But oh well.
    I feel for Lindsay in general. Everyone knows (and Rockne has made it perfectly clear) that the Olympics are his goal and we all know he's getting up there in age. So she's in a first year partnership with the it boy of US pairs skating and she isn't stupid; she knows it's Olympics or bust. That's a lot of pressure for a brand new partnership.

  3. #343
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    All that drama for a program that isn't that great to begin with. There is nothing original in the choreography. It was edited well and the elements are on the music, but that's it. For an Olympic routine, I'd expect better anyhow.

  4. #344
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    Will Rockne give up after this year? Win, lose or whatever? Or is this a partnership that might last till the next Olympics? The Baldwins were well into their 30's before they retired from competitive skating.

  5. #345
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    MBM left Rockne. Period. It doesn't matter if her reasons were good or not. They are no longer a team.

    Sure she can feel sentimental pain at never competing a program she worked with Rockne, but in public she should support him as he moves on and STFU about how she is attached to work and a program she abandoned.

    She should STFU about what Rockne does from here on out. She "lost respect" for HIM????

    The girl is delusional if she thinks she knows what respect means. He respected her, now she trashes him when he moves on... sounds like a typical, self-absorbed, self-centered teenage trash heap after she gets dumped by a boy who did nothing wrong.

    She should STFU.

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrellH View Post
    Will Rockne give up after this year? Win, lose or whatever? Or is this a partnership that might last till the next Olympics?
    They both indicated the latter possibility when their partnership was announced back in February:
    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=1#post3842502
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  7. #347

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    OMG. What is with this poster-generated drama regarding MBM and D/B??? She made a decision to move on to battle her personal demons. Rockne moved on, found a new partner and decided to keep the music. In a recent IN article, he acknowledges that and states that their team retooled some of the choreography to make it fitting for 2 adults. MBM gives an interview that it hurts to see he kept the music. I'm sorry for her difficulties, but, grow up - In adult life, people move on and do what is best for them
    No Kidding!!!
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    To me, that program belonged to a TEAM, not Rockne, and once that team dissolved, the program should have as well.
    This type of statement and opinion is obviously that of a FAN, and not someone who has any real or practical experience as a pair skater.

    Unfortunately, this type of statement is typical FAN-based dreck when considering the athletic and sporting considerations of people trying to make an Olympic team.

    NO ONE OWNS ANY TYPE OF PROGRAM. NO ONE OWNS MUSIC. NO ONE OWNS SKATING MOVES or CHOREOGRAPHY.

    Case in point, I once saw an Adult Skater at a very high level, reproduce JANET LYNN's program of "Afternoon of a Faun" including the double axel. She did it as a tribute and it was wonderful, but totally stolen from Janet and her choreographer.

    MBM should STFU.

  9. #349

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    Quote Originally Posted by PairSk8Fan View Post

    NO ONE OWNS ANY TYPE OF PROGRAM. NO ONE OWNS MUSIC. NO ONE OWNS SKATING MOVES or CHOREOGRAPHY.
    Actually, music rights *are* owned, and choreography may or may not be owned... depends on the contract.
    Beefcake's fancy, saccharine, artsy, drag bingo cliche effusing, bipolar, OTT fashionista manchild

  10. #350

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    Sure Mary Beth can't tell Rockne what to do, but she has every right to have an opinion, especially pertaining to her program that she shared with him. I'm not surprised at all that she feels the way she does (although I'm surprised she chose to publicly air her opinion on it). Even in this crazy skating world, there are certain things you just don't do, and reusing parts of a program from a partnership that existed less than a year ago should be one of them.
    It was her decision the partnership was ended last year and the program was hardly “shared.” I might feel differently if they had competed it all season and he re-used it the next year with someone else; but she only knew the choreography for a couple of months and competed once at a summer comp and she didn’t even choreograph it. Rockne has every right to see the program to its completion no matter if it was with Mary Beth or Lindsay.

    At the very least, Rockne could have called Mary Beth before the program debuted and given her the heads up as to what was going on, explaining why this was necessary, etc. But based on her interview, they no longer communicate. I guess that is understandable given that he was an adult and she was a teenager when they skated together... But it's also pretty sad to spend nearly every day with someone for a couple years in an emotionally charged skating discipline that is predicated on having a strong relationship with another person, and then to have so much disregard for that person and the partnership that you can't even call her to inform her that you intend to reuse her own program. I think blindsiding her like that comes across as a bit of a slap in the face. Even an email or a text would have been better than nothing, and I would have at least done that, no matter how bitter and angry I felt about her ending the partnership (and I'm sure I would have felt angry, even if Mary Beth left for very good reasons).
    Rockne had no obligation to tell her anything. If she was so concerned about what he skates to she should have remained his partner. She stole one season from his skating career, if anything she should feel grateful she didn’t ruin him completely and he still can compete. Like said before, I hope she learns a lot from this experience.

  11. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badams View Post
    Yeah. I agree. And Rockne had to start all over again, again. I think him keeping a program that he already worked very hard on and learned and knows is the best thing he could do for himself. Let's be real, his window is closing and he needs to do whatever he can for himself. Nothing wrong with that. MBM walked away from the sport for very good reasons, but Rockne was still left high and dry. He was left in a very bad position. Nobody faults MBM for doing what was best for herself, and nobody should fault Rockne for doing the same. IMO, of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    MBM walked away from Rockne, it was her decision to do whatever she wanted but she really put him into a tough spot...and that's a huge understatement. He lost a whole season a year before the Olympics. I wouldn't want to pay for another program either when the one he had was only used once at a small summer compeititon. MBM has no right to tell her ex-partner what he can and cannot skate to with his new partner. I agree with the poster who said she has buyers remorse. She should just be happy that the ex-partner she broke up with is moving on, hopefully she will learn a lot from this.
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    But you're not Lindsay Davis, and she might feel very differently.

    Some people move into homes their current partner made with a former partner and feel it is a fine decision for them, after weighing the options. Davis may have felt or agreed that in a new partnership, it was a better us of their time heading into Sochi that Brubaker knew the program inside out and could focus on helping her through the learning curve, and that the program was a known entity.
    Quote Originally Posted by DimaToe View Post
    ... Rockne's goal right now is Sochi, if using the same LP with Lindsey (SP?) was something that he and his team thought would help their chances to make it to Sochi by even a tiny bit, then I can't blame them for making such a deduction. The program was never debuted internationally, if it had it would be a different story. I hope after this that MB makes a healthy comeback to the sport though. She was by far my favorite US pairs lady.
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    If Marley had said, "I'm upset because I own 100% of this program or 50% of this program, and I feel ripped off" that would be a different issue, but her statement shows that his decision is a personal slap. While it might be a "nice to have," a jiltee's first obligation is not the feelings of the jilter.
    ITA with all of the above perspectives. Marley/ Brubaker were my favorite pairs team and I was so looking forward to their having a great season last year. It wasn't to be though. I'm glad that Mary Beth had the courage to do what she felt was right for her health and well-being. If Mary Beth feels ready to come back and compete again, I wish her the very best of luck. Perhaps she might eventually skate a version of UofC with a new partner some day. Perhaps Mary Beth should try to cherish and remember the good of the experience she had with Rockne (discuss her feelings and regrets privately/ discreetly) and move on with renewed strength and confidence. I also hope that Rockne's patience, classiness, hard work and determination will be fully rewarded in his new partnership.

    Neither the skating world nor the real world are forgiving places. They are hard, rough places and none of us are entitled to or promised one thing. Some good advice for us all during difficult times and disappointing situations: Push forward with hard work and deliberation. Give up on harboring idealistic expectations. Count our blessings and cherish what we have. Understand that change is the only constant. And, as has been said: "Don't complain, don't explain."

    ITA also with NadineWhite that when the M/B split first happened: "Neither said a bad word about the other. Classy on both their parts. Let that classiness continue."


    ETA:
    ITA also with olympic's recent post, re-posted by AxelAnnie in #347 above
    Last edited by aftershocks; 08-05-2013 at 11:17 PM.

  12. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    From Sylvia's Twitter feed -

    Denney/Coughlin debuted their SP and LP at an exhibition in CO this weekend, scoring 67.05 (SP) and 132.51 (LP). Obviously, the score are inflated but I wonder what elements they're doing? 2 sets of SBS triples perhaps??
    I'd wager that they probably aced the levels before I'd guess that they got two sets of SBS triples (especially since a 3-2 doesn't score much more than a 2A-2A sequence, and I'd be floored if they were doing three triple jumps)

  13. #353

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    Quote Originally Posted by AxelAnnie View Post
    Well, it is sad.....but she had to make a choice for herself, and she did. Did she expect everyone else to not touch anything that was "hers". I certainly understand her being sad. But she chose to leave (for good reason) and her "heartbreak" is a little over the top. How's about a bit of compassion for the situation she left her partner in.
    I never said that she should expect everyone else not to touch anything that was hers. I only expressed sadness for her and what I'm sure is a painful situation. Please don't tell me for whom I should feel compassion.

  14. #354
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    UofC was and would have been a great program for M/B, but skating is not more important than leading a happy, healthy life. What M/B achieved with their partnership is special and memorable. I hope Mary Beth will cherish the memory of learning and performing UofC with Rockne at least once (even though she wasn't feeling at full strength mentally and physically at the time). Again, nothing is promised, and altho' it's apparently painful for Mary Beth to see Rockne skate to UofC with a new partner, it might help for Mary Beth to realize that it was likely also painful for Rockne to not be able to skate UofC with Mary Beth last season, and to be disappointed in a partnership once again leading up to an Olympic season. Rockne dealt with it and moved forward. For a bit of perspective, in Mary Beth's own words from the recent TSL interview:

    … You have to learn from experiences … I’ve learned how to cope in a healthy way… It’s really helpful being in such a great sport that allows me to do something I love so that I feel like I have something again. And, I’m so thankful for everything that it gives… Recovery doesn’t work unless you apply it to everyday life …

    I’m sure Rockne’s busy. He has a goal in mind and he’s going to achieve that goal, and he’s going to do everything that he wants to do. And I hope he’s doing well… And I wish him the best.

  15. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Pairs scoretracker has been updated: http://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/s...-pairs-scores/

    I heard that Aaron/Settlage scored well in their Junior exhibition at Colorado Championships this past weekend (50+ in SP, 90+ in FS) but since I don't have official confirmation of their scores, they're not listed in Scoretracker yet.

    ETA that National champs Marissa Castelli/Simon Shnapir are scheduled to debut their programs at the Quebec Summer Championships near Montreal this coming weekend - I've started an event thread in the Kiss and Cry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    I'd wager that they probably aced the levels before I'd guess that they got two sets of SBS triples (especially since a 3-2 doesn't score much more than a 2A-2A sequence, and I'd be floored if they were doing three triple jumps)
    Thanks for the attempts to get back to discussing Pairs, and skating. I'm giving up on this thread for the time being. It would be nice if the discussion of programs and ownership and all that angst could be taken to its own thread.

  16. #356
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    Last year's Pairs GP rosters were unusually tumultuous, to the point of having one non-host, non-comeback, and non-split couple team (Montalbano/Krasnapolski) competing without having made the GP minimum score, and going to the very last team on the alternates list, with Scimeca/Knierem getting the last NHK spot by winning an early season Senior B. This year, between it being an Olympic season, two split couple teams at the top of the list, and the new technical minimums that let another six senior teams join the alternates list, it's unlikely to come close to that.

    Currently, there are two (returning) split couples who were assigned one GP, and if the past two years' practice holds, they will get a second assignment before the groups of five are chosen:

    • Davis/Brubaker (SC)
    • Purich/Tran (TEB)



    (Takahashi/Kihara were originally assigned one, and then on 19 July were assigned to the NHK host TBA.)

    After that, there are six remaining teams on the Top 24 SB list with one; at least two of them must be chosen for a host or alternates spot before anyone out of the Top 24 is:

    • Stolbova/Klimov (WS 14, SA)
    • Zhang/Bartholomay (WS 15, CoC)
    • Martiusheva/Rogonov (WS 18, CoC)
    • Popova/Massot (WS 20, CoC)
    • Denney/Frazier (WS 22, NHK)
    • Purdy/Marinaro (WS 23, SC)

    There are four TBA's for SA, CoC, TEB, and RC. It's possible that USFS will assign D/B or D/F to SA, as last year's precedent was that Top 24 SB don't have to be assigned before going to SB 25 and below, as lower-ranked skaters move into the Top 5 group to replace the chosen; by this precedent, D/F wouldn't be guaranteed a spot until they ran out of Top 75 SB team, while there's an excellent chance that there will be at least two withdrawals and D/B will get a second assignment that way, if they don't get the SA TBA. We never quite know what senior Chinese teams are together and healthy, aside from the three big name couples. The French Fed might be perverse enough to toss back another TBA instead of assigning Popova/Massot. I can't imagine the Russian Fed bypassing S/K or P/M, since the other strong pairs either have two or are competing in Juniors, unless they're planning to move up Tarasova/Morozov.

    As a result, I'd expect the Top five to be, after the host picks are chosen and D/B and P/T are assigned a second from the top of the list:

    • Either Stolbova/Klimov or Martiusheva/Rogonov
    • Zhang/Bartholomay, if they don't get the SA slot, which I think they have a very good shot at getting
    • Denney/Frazier
    • Purdy/Marinaro


    and
    • Tarasova/Morozov, if they turn senior or, if they stay junior,
    • Wang/Zhang if they aren't assigned to CoC or
    • Della/Monica/Guarese.


    Unless they get the SA host pick, Donlan/Speroff wouldn't join the list until after Varmann/Van Cleave (Gainetdinova and Bich are staying junior, yes?), Kemp/King, and Simpson/Blackmer.

    Without political maneuvering, it could take a lot of withdrawals before any US team besides Davis/Brubaker at the top of the list gets an alternate spot, making that SA spot an unusually big prize.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  17. #357
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    There was a comment made that the top 2 teams who train with Delilah in Colorado Springs do not skate on the same sessions. Is that because of competitiveness - not getting along? In some centers where top direct competitors train under the same coach, it seems it can be distracting to be on the ice at the same time. Alternatively, it can be motivating.

  18. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by leapfrogonice View Post
    There was a comment made that the top 2 teams who train with Delilah in Colorado Springs do not skate on the same sessions. Is that because of competitiveness - not getting along? In some centers where top direct competitors train under the same coach, it seems it can be distracting to be on the ice at the same time. Alternatively, it can be motivating.
    Probably the former (competitiveness). I don't see any of them as having 'difficult personalities.'

  19. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by leapfrogonice View Post
    There was a comment made that the top 2 teams who train with Delilah in Colorado Springs do not skate on the same sessions. Is that because of competitiveness - not getting along? In some centers where top direct competitors train under the same coach, it seems it can be distracting to be on the ice at the same time. Alternatively, it can be motivating.
    In the summer alone, there are 8 pairs sessions daily at the World Arena Ice Hall. (4 pairs sessions and 4 pairs/dance sessions without much dance going on there). You can confirm at http://www.frontline-connect.com/ses...darena&facid=1. Given, they also all skate on the several FS [Free Style] sessions for their single skills, I imagine.

    Given the amount of pairs... and the amount of ice... it could be a matter of they simply just don't need to be on the ice at the same time. Given the injuries of Chris and John (and others we may not know about), it could be as simple as making their training work around their physical therapy schedules. John is also involved in coaching some of the younger teams, and that could play a part in the schedule. And I think John and Chris, at least, both have actual jobs outside of the rink -- not sure how much they both have to work and when. Given all the teams in Colorado Springs and all of the ice for them, it doesn't surprise me that the top 2 may not train together on the same sessions all that often. Regardless of the reason, seems much ado about nothing.

  20. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by leapfrogonice View Post
    There was a comment made that the top 2 teams who train with Delilah in Colorado Springs do not skate on the same sessions. Is that because of competitiveness - not getting along? In some centers where top direct competitors train under the same coach, it seems it can be distracting to be on the ice at the same time. Alternatively, it can be motivating.
    We used to train pairs there, and all of the teams get along great. Dalilah spreads out her teams on different sessions so that she has time available to coach all of them. She also works around the work and school schedules of her skaters.

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