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  1. #801

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    Castelli & Shnapir more than earned the right to compete both programs in the team event if they feel up to it. They are head and shoulders above D/C, S/K and Z/B in terms of choreo, interpretation, transitions etc. While they don't sell a true love vibe, their skating has a mature, refined quality and they were completely in the moment relating to one another at every move in their FS this weekend.

  2. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauren329 View Post
    Castelli & Shnapir more than earned the right to compete both programs in the team event if they feel up to it. They are head and shoulders above D/C, S/K and Z/B in terms of choreo, interpretation, transitions etc. While they don't sell a true love vibe, their skating has a mature, refined quality and they were completely in the moment relating to one another at every move in their FS this weekend.
    Completely agree.. The PCS given to D/C are a joke when compared to what C/S have received for their programs that have so much more detail and refinement. Julie Marcotte is amazing with C/S..

  3. #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvid View Post
    Outraged that Denny and Coughlin weren't chosen! This committee wasn't thinking about the team event obviously! One good skate from the other team doesn't mean they'll do it on the big stage.
    Maybe the committee already decided to send two dance teams to the team competition and who they sent for pairs didn't matter.

  4. #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauren329 View Post
    Castelli & Shnapir more than earned the right to compete both programs in the team event if they feel up to it. They are head and shoulders above D/C, S/K and Z/B in terms of choreo, interpretation, transitions etc. While they don't sell a true love vibe, their skating has a mature, refined quality and they were completely in the moment relating to one another at every move in their FS this weekend.

    We obviously were watching different longs? so many errors in their long it was nuts! and with a super clean lights out long at Worlds last year where did they place?? oh ya for the first time in years the Nationals champs were beat horribly at World's by the silver medalists?

    So the above is so off but to each his own we shall see when they make these errors against China and Russia and the Germans. Why do you think D/C are going to World's? and if they could send S/K they would. TO gain a spot for the US they could send D/C and S/K 9th in the world and probably bring three spots for 2015 with Z/B and C/S they will loose and only get one. I could be wrong but it has been proven. So at the Olympics if we get 15th and 17th we'll be lucky and that is sooooo sad

    but their long at Nationals 2014 was horrific. They don't just not sell a love vibe but no vibe. Sad

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    Castelli and Shnapir are not that good at everything except for a few technical elements because it is obvious they hate each other. Simon has barely concealed indifference to her and she looks like she is out there for herself.
    Last edited by PairSk8Fan; 01-13-2014 at 03:16 PM.

  6. #806

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvid View Post
    Outraged that Denny and Coughlin weren't chosen! This committee wasn't thinking about the team event obviously! One good skate from the other team doesn't mean they'll do it on the big stage.
    I really expected D/C to be named because of the team event. But when they made the announcement, the federation said the team event was not even considered in picking the Oly team because it wasn't part of the published criteria! Which makes no sense. Does that mean the federation doesn't care about winning a team medal? Or that they just couldn't be bothered to update the previous criteria to reflect the new team event? It's insanity IMO, just a further example of this federation's incompetence.

  7. #807

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    Quote Originally Posted by figureit View Post
    We obviously were watching different longs? so many errors in their long it was nuts! and with a super clean lights out long at Worlds last year where did they place?? oh ya for the first time in years the Nationals champs were beat horribly at World's by the silver medalists?

    So the above is so off but to each his own we shall see when they make these errors against China and Russia and the Germans. Why do you think D/C are going to World's? and if they could send S/K they would. TO gain a spot for the US they could send D/C and S/K 9th in the world and probably bring three spots for 2015 with Z/B and C/S they will loose and only get one. I could be wrong but it has been proven. So at the Olympics if we get 15th and 17th we'll be lucky and that is sooooo sad

    but their long at Nationals 2014 was horrific. They don't just not sell a love vibe but no vibe. Sad
    I watched their long from the 2nd row of the td garden and stand by everything I posted about it. They had mistakes but sold the hell out of every second. They also did the best spins of their career. And had a well deserved lead from their out of this world short. S/K had a perfect free and still were about 9 points behind c&s in the free alone so your argument that they really wanted to send S/K is unfounded. They didn't even have the judges try to keep them in it. And I like S/K and thought they were underscored in the free.

    D&C were vastly inflated in both programs- Nate and Felicia should won the free. The fact that they kept it together and knocked it out of the park after the roof was blown off the building for Marissa and Simon (literally deafening screaming after the program and the score and having to warm up as flowers and animals were being hauled at the ice for 5 minutes) shows me they are steely competitors.

  8. #808
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauren329 View Post
    Castelli & Shnapir more than earned the right to compete both programs in the team event if they feel up to it. They are head and shoulders above D/C, S/K and Z/B in terms of choreo, interpretation, transitions etc. While they don't sell a true love vibe, their skating has a mature, refined quality and they were completely in the moment relating to one another at every move in their FS this weekend.
    I completely disagree. One thing that is obvious in their skating is how much they do not like one another. Their interpretation, choreography and transitions are actually at a Junior level, particularly when you compare it to, let's say, V/T or P/T or S/S who are this team's competition at Worlds.

    C/S do not even belong in the same competition as V/T; K/S; P/T; S/S or even the Canadian teams. SorryBoutIt.

  9. #809

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    Random thought: NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) should be invoked and the US and Canada do some pair trading: Margaret Purdy should partner with Shnapir; and Castelli with Michael Marinaro. Workable height differences result...

  10. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by PairSk8Fan View Post
    I completely disagree. One thing that is obvious in their skating is how much they do not like one another. Their interpretation, choreography and transitions are actually at a Junior level, particularly when you compare it to, let's say, V/T or P/T or S/S who are this team's competition at Worlds.

    C/S do not even belong in the same competition as V/T; K/S; P/T; S/S or even the Canadian teams. SorryBoutIt.


    I agree with you but Lauren wasn't comparing C/S to V/T; K/S; S/S or any other team from another country. Lauren was comparing C/S to pairs from the USA.

    I think Marissa and Simon's SP was the best of the evening, and they have improved their pairness and overall look. But to say they are on the same level as the top teams at the World Championships is another matter entirely. My crystal ball is on the blink, but it's only a small chance that C/S or Z/B will be better than eighth at the Olympics. If both American teams skate their best I'll be satisfied no matter what their final placements are.

  11. #811

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave of the North View Post
    Random thought: NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) should be invoked and the US and Canada do some pair trading: Margaret Purdy should partner with Shnapir; and Castelli with Michael Marinaro. Workable height differences result...
    Given how difficult it is to find a partner I've often thought it would be nice if mixed teams could each represent their own countries. We'd still have Takahashi/Tran if that was possible!

  12. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralgraph View Post
    I agree with you but Lauren wasn't comparing C/S to V/T; K/S; S/S or any other team from another country. Lauren was comparing C/S to pairs from the USA.

    I think Marissa and Simon's SP was the best of the evening, and they have improved their pairness and overall look. But to say they are on the same level as the top teams at the World Championships is another matter entirely. My crystal ball is on the blink, but it's only a small chance that C/S or Z/B will be better than eighth at the Olympics. If both American teams skate their best I'll be satisfied no matter what their final placements are.
    I must agree with this. No crystal ball, but C/S will be 11th and Z/B will be 13th. That's the way the Olympics goes for our teams.

  13. #813
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    [QUOTE=Skittl1321;4113991]How'd they do at nationals last year? How were they at 4CCs? Worlds? Oh right, they weren't there. That hurt them. Without a doubt.
    Why are you ONLY looking at the GP when Z/B have excellent nationals results from last year and good 4CC results? The committee considered ALL of this. If D/C had been picked, I think it could be justified. But I think not picking them is just as reasonable for the Olympics. The skaters KNOW it is a committee that picks; and a committee is always subjective. It isn't mathematical; and it is stated that nationals is MOST important. It's not like this is a big surprise.

    YEP BIG surprise to be sure!

    Oh ya obviously being 9th in the World with mistakes for S/K helped them with their FS score at Nationals? They were low balled. Against a low season horrible season Z/B who had no injuries and perfect FS at 2013 World's by C/S what was their score oh yea? S/K still scored higher. It was obvious they got low balled and just hoping it bites the US pairs program in the butt. Big mistake for USA pairs when they could have had three spots back we need them and on world stage they are competitive Z/B and C/S are not. The other countries are excited now to have us go lower and lower with clean skates and low placements when teams like D/C score higher and S/K just now peaking after injury and geez with injury could be over 6th at World's they are loved Internationally. USFS blew it. Let's hope the future of medalaling on the World stage in pairs in decades the pair team that could actually do it doesn't leave cause of this political BS. I was so excited to finally have a team to represent in a way that has not been seen in decades mistakes or not. Like years ago. Bummer guess time will tell but who knows.

  14. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by PairSk8Fan View Post
    I must agree with this. No crystal ball, but C/S will be 11th and Z/B will be 13th. That's the way the Olympics goes for our teams.
    BUT: it didn't have to could have for the first time been different and taking the World stage into consideration for women and not for pairs was a HUGE error as Pairs needs this boost.

  15. #815
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    Realistically, Castelli/Shnapir & Zhang/Bartholomay are likely fighting for an Olympic placement of 10th-12th (perhaps with the French, the 3rd ranked CAN team & 2nd ranked GER team). There is real depth at the top of pairs even with China having one fewer entry than last year's Worlds, and there are 3 RUS teams, 1 GER, 2 CHN, 2 CAN, 1 ITA that will beat those US teams unless something disastrous happens. C/S & Z/B are good teams, but they have enough weaknesses that it would be almost impossible for them to both place top 10. But beyond the top 12 or 13 pairs, there is a sizable dropoff in scoring potential, so no matter how the US teams skate, they will be inside the top 15 with no issues. C/S were 13th at Worlds last season, and the 14th place team scored nearly 30 points below them, so there's really no danger of the US teams placing terribly low.

    Still, you always hope to send your best teams to the Olympics and give yourself the best chance to finish as high as possible. It didn't quite happen. A team like Denney/Coughlin had some pretty uncharacteristic mistakes at Nationals, perhaps in part because they felt the pressure of being the favorite. Meanwhile a team like Z/B knew they were flying under the radar and skated free from the burden of expecting themselves to win. With the pressure of Nationals being so great for the top names, it doesn't always lead to your best skaters getting selected, which is disappointing. But at least the pairs that are being sent have decent scores internationally.

    I thought the Nationals LP scores were slightly inflated but reasonable-- until the last group skated. They could have ranked the 4 medalists in the same order without dramatically inflating the top 3 scores like that. C/S, D/C, and Z/B's PCS shot up over 10 pts from what they had been receiving internationally. I don't think it needed to be that drastic, especially considering 2 of those teams didn't skate all that great. C/S's LP outscoring S/K's LP by 7+ pts was too big of a gap. Speaking of S/K, they have so much potential, but just had a couple too many mistakes here. I think if their throws had been a little cleaner in the LP, they would have deserved to move up to top 2. They need time and patience.
    Last edited by stjeaskategym; 01-15-2014 at 08:40 AM.

  16. #816

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    Dear FSU : Food for thought:

    Olympic Creed:

    "The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not to win but to take part, just as the most important thing in life is not the triumph but the struggle. The essential thing is not to have conquered but to have fought well."


    Maybe it's time to support the brave athletes that are supporting the United States and stop the endless debate. Aliona Savchenko and Pang and Tong are entering their 4th Olympics…were they really that successful the first time around? Lets cut these skaters a break and allow them to show their worth in the glow of the Olympic ideal.

  17. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by figureit View Post
    Big mistake for USA pairs when they could have had three spots back we need them and on world stage they are competitive Z/B and C/S are not.
    You realize spots are not assigned at the Olympics, they are assigned at Worlds. Where D/C are going over Z/B.
    D/C did not distinguish themselves according to the Olympic criteria, and none of them are likely to get a medal, so there is no reason to deviate from nationals and deny Z/B the Olympics. But D/C are likely to get a higher placement at Worlds- where 1)selection criteria is more open to other competitions and 2) where placement matters- so they did get that assignment.


    Sending Z/B to the Olympics in no way will affect decades of pairs skating.

  18. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    Tell that to Mirai....I think she's an American...
    This

  19. #819

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    I just realized this thread title is out of date. Should it be updated to "U.S. Pairs News & Notes 2014" or "State of U.S. Pairs: 2014" or something like that?

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    [QUOTE=Skittl1321;4117099]You realize spots are not assigned at the Olympics, they are assigned at Worlds. Where D/C are going over Z/B.
    D/C did not distinguish themselves according to the Olympic criteria, and none of them are likely to get a medal, so there is no reason to deviate from nationals and deny Z/B the Olympics. But D/C are likely to get a higher placement at Worlds- where 1)selection criteria is more open to other competitions and 2) where placement matters- so they did get that assignment.


    Sending Z/B to the Olympics in no way will affect decades of pairs skating.
    But..sending both C/S and Z/B and not showing top 10 at the Olympics then sending another team to World's and being top 10 like 2013 I don't think helps pair skating either. Obviously S/K is loved Internationally they have the IT factor that even with errors can beat C/S even with errors on the World stage and the Chinese and other top teams and could have placed higher than 9th this year at the Olympics or World's. I think they were under scored by a huge margin obvious USFS has a plan for them but that was lame! Inflating that horrible FS for C/S is something that can effect pair skating. Makes USA kind of a joke especially after 2013 World's when S/K with an imperfect FS beat them by so much with a C/S perfect FS yikes.

    Z/B are a talent for sure but they have to go lights out to even get in the bottom but they skated great! Potential there is not obvious though. DO I see them all of a sudden becoming more artistic or getting a quad twist, quad throw maybe? a connection that lights up a World stage? and becoming a team that connects on another level artistically ? and will the International judges say hey they stick out? Probably not but who knows not better than S/K or D/C or D/F or K/O even some other teams below them. Personal opinion. C/S just don't have the IT factor, Internationally the judges DO NOT LIKE THEM and if Simon really truly bless his heart does not take her face off in a spin one of these days I will be grateful.


    Yes was referring to World's but it is nice when we have a higher placement at the Olympics too and was really talking about C/S not Z/B. Personal opinion that us having higher placement at World's and not at Olympics it is pretty obvious what happened and doesn't do pairs any favors I think S/K, and teams like K/O will be giving us higher placements against the HUGE talent in World pairs. I guess I have an issue with the marks for some being inflated and other not when they do not and cannot hold a placement even in the top 10 at World's skating lights out by saying "well it doesn't matter anyway"? For other countries it matters they just got higher marks and placements and the Olympics/World's hasn't even happened yet they, I believe are celebrating knowing they have the USA not to worry about when sending another team(s) they would have had something to worry about.

    It is a done deal though so it is what it is. I have a feeling that if these teams that are loved by the World stage stay in and are not discouraged by USFS pairs will be like Dance,successful and competitive. IF not treated right and they leave it will continue not to matter so only time will tell but people wonder why pairs break up? it is not just because they don't get along...etc. At this point its done supporting the USA is priority but that sucks.

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