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  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sk8 View Post
    Well, MBM doesn't seem too stressed about the music and program, so why should we be? We don't know what the deal was with payment, etc., and they could have sorted it out among themselves. I don't think it's "tacky" - the program was hardly used for competition, it's a good program - why not make use of it if the coaches thought it a suitable vehicle for Rockne and his new partner. JMO on the music issue.
    I don't know it is an Olympic year. Do you really want to do this???? I don't think so. This is not a time to do this. You are a new team come out and show something, show who you are. Other teams have done it being together the same amount of time... I also think it puts Lindsey in a bad situation and it is a slap in the face to Mary Beth. I guess you are also right no one knows why and what has been worked out. I just don't think it matters this is not the year to do this but I guess everyone has their reasons? so onward it makes me curious about the other teams and seeing the internationals though.

  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrellH View Post
    Artur Dmitriev had no problem doing the same.
    Artur Dmitriev did suffer some disrespect I remember it well but lets face it 6.0 system and years ago, Russians? when pairs was totally different. Like comparing apples to oranges in so many ways there is not enough room to type it. But really? D/B are in a totally different place against totally different competitors and a different system. Others have said there are reasons so I am game to bite that they have a good reason to do this in this age of technology and movement and IJS. I guess we'll see.

  3. #283

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    I agree that there is a question - that remains to be answered - about whether this choice on music/program was a good strategic move in an Olympic year, but I think that's a lot different than being "unethical," "tacky," and so on.

  4. #284
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    It's youtube's fault! In the good ol days, nobody would have seen the video of the LA open.

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    U.S. Pairs Scoretracker (Senior down to Juvenile) has been updated through Skate Detroit - SP & FS scores have been combined (they were separate events in Detroit): http://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/s...-pairs-scores/
    Pairs' results/scores are compiled in my blog (official results for Skate Detroit have not been published online yet, AFAIK): http://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/2...skate-detroit/

    ETA that 2013 Novice champs Christina ZAITSEV / Ernie Utah STEVENS, who competed in Detroit this past weekend, is the sole U.S. pair assigned to the first JGP in Riga, Latvia. The 5 listed alternates are, in alphabetical order:
    Madeline AARON / Max SETTLAGE J3
    Kaitlin BUDD / Nikita CHEBAN N2 (competed in Detroit)
    Sophia DAI / Jeffrey FISHMAN N5 (competed SP only in Detroit)
    Chelsea LIU / Devin PERINI J4 (competed in Detroit; JGP-eligible team with highest combined score there)
    Aya TAKAI / Brian JOHNSON N4 (competed in Detroit)
    Alright thanks!

    Really surprised to see that Lui/ Perini didn't win this event, thought they'd only lose to Aaron/ Settlage this year. Also, Zaitsev/ Stevens scored considerably lower than they did last year as Novice's at nationals?? I wonder why, I was hoping to see them near the top again this year.

  6. #286
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    I am betting outside of southern Cal many judges, officials, etc. will not even realize R skated to that music with a previous partner.

  7. #287
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    The first section of this Skate Detroit wrap-up article includes quotes from Rockne Brubaker, Lindsay Davis, and Marina Zoueva: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news
    Brubaker also mentions that they are going to Oberstdorf for Nebelhorn Trophy in September.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 08-01-2013 at 11:04 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    So I'm going to bite here since no one else has.

    It appears that Rockne just took the last LP he had choreographed with Mary Beth (by Renee Roca, I believe?) and now is using it with Davis. Same music cut, same intro choreo, same ending, same placement on some of the elements, same transitional steps.... what's up with that? Is that unethical considering that MBM's parents likely paid for some/all of the choreography? It's certainly tacky at a minimum, in my opinion.

    Marley/Brubaker 2012 Los Angeles Open: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ALGTtcu93U
    Davis/Brubaker 2013 Skate Detroit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEDBGG9RnIE
    It surprised me when Rockne referred to it as "a very different program". As you mentioned, he isn't just reusing the music, he is reusing much of the same choreography. It seems the placement of their elements within the program was what kept them from using the identical program. Maybe a lot of people wouldn't have noticed (at least not until it was brought up here ), but I feel for Mary Beth. I bet it did not feel good at all when she saw it. It's pretty much saying, "You don't want to skate this program, Mary Beth? Okay, someone else will take your place and do it for you." Maybe it's going too far to call it "mean", but it is inevitably awkward and rubbed me the wrong way a bit.

    To me, that program belonged to a TEAM, not Rockne, and once that team dissolved, the program should have as well. I think that would have been the right thing to do out of respect and appreciation for their partnership. This just reminds me of one of the reasons why I think US pair teams struggle... The individual skaters do not tend to truly think of themselves as a team, they think of themselves as separate entities looking out for themselves. And as a result, the chemistry of the teams tend to suffer.

    And things like choreography are glanced over more than they should be. It's the "easy way out" to reuse choreography from an old partnership rather than trying to find your own identity as a team. Of course new teams are pressed for time and may need to look for a shortcut here or there, but I just wish the shortcuts didn't come at an old partner's expense. Whether or not this truly bothers Mary Beth (we'll never know), doesn't really matter. It was still an awkward thing to do.

  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    It surprised me when Rockne referred to it as "a very different program". As you mentioned, he isn't just reusing the music, he is reusing much of the same choreography. It seems the placement of their elements within the program was what kept them from using the identical program. Maybe a lot of people wouldn't have noticed (at least not until it was brought up here ), but I feel for Mary Beth. I bet it did not feel good at all when she saw it. It's pretty much saying, "You don't want to skate this program, Mary Beth? Okay, someone else will take your place and do it for you." Maybe it's going too far to call it "mean", but it is inevitably awkward and rubbed me the wrong way a bit.

    To me, that program belonged to a TEAM, not Rockne, and once that team dissolved, the program should have as well. I think that would have been the right thing to do out of respect and appreciation for their partnership. This just reminds me of one of the reasons why I think US pair teams struggle... The individual skaters do not tend to truly think of themselves as a team, they think of themselves as separate entities looking out for themselves. And as a result, the chemistry of the teams tend to suffer.

    And things like choreography are glanced over more than they should be. It's the "easy way out" to reuse choreography from an old partnership rather than trying to find your own identity as a team. Of course new teams are pressed for time and may need to look for a shortcut here or there, but I just wish the shortcuts didn't come at an old partner's expense. Whether or not this truly bothers Mary Beth (we'll never know), doesn't really matter. It was still an awkward thing to do.
    So much presumption on your part. "At an old partner's expense"? Are you forgetting that it was MBM who walked away from the partnership, after the season was already underway? And how do you know who "owns" the program? For all we know, at their parting MBM might have said, "take it, it's yours."

    Here's the biggest reason why Brubaker might have opted to leverage the program: $$$$$$$. Skating is expen$ive! But if it bothers you so much I'm sure they'd be happy to have you fund a new program.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    So much presumption on your part. "At an old partner's expense"? Are you forgetting that it was MBM who walked away from the partnership, after the season was already underway? And how do you know who "owns" the program? For all we know, at their parting MBM might have said, "take it, it's yours."

    Here's the biggest reason why Brubaker might have opted to leverage the program: $$$$$$$. Skating is expen$ive! But if it bothers you so much I'm sure they'd be happy to have you fund a new program.

  11. #291
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    FYI, Good news

    https://twitter.com/chrisknierim

    It looks like Chris Knierim returned to the ice on 7-31. If you recall, he was off the ice for about 4 weeks for a 'broken bone'. It was never specified what was broken ...

  12. #292
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    I just think it was tasteless none the less to reuse a program in an old partnership. Rockne obviously believes that program is a great vehicle for the judges, but it shows that he doesn't really care about the partnership. It's obvious he only cares about his own success, no matter who it's with. My question is: Now that Mary Beth is back on the market, who will she skate with/Who do you want to see her skate with? Also: What has happened to Dalilah's camp? I've heard my favorites, Aaron and Settlage are injured, Scimeca and Knierem are injured and Simpson and Blakmer are quits. What's going on in Colorado?

  13. #293

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    Wow! I'm not a D/B fan at all, quite the opposite, but this seems a bit harsh - because - I'm thinking coaches would have had a lot to do with the decision on the program, not just Rockne! Zoueva, "the visionary," would have picked a new "vehicle" if she thought it was needed, no?

    Your other questions are quite interesting!

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulaski73 View Post
    I just think it was tasteless none the less to reuse a program in an old partnership. Rockne obviously believes that program is a great vehicle for the judges, but it shows that he doesn't really care about the partnership. It's obvious he only cares about his own success, no matter who it's with. My question is: Now that Mary Beth is back on the market, who will she skate with/Who do you want to see her skate with? Also: What has happened to Dalilah's camp? I've heard my favorites, Aaron and Settlage are in

    red, Scimeca and Knierem are injured and Simpson and Blakmer are quits. What's going on in Colorado?
    Mary Beth should have no problem finding a partner, but since she has spoken of why she took a break from the sport then she should stay away from the Colorado camp unless additional pair coaches become an option in Colorado. Had not heard about Simpson and Blackmer parting ways. But they are both very talented and should find better matches for themselves to become competitive in the senior ranks. Best of luck to them if this is true.

  15. #295

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulaski73 View Post
    I just think it was tasteless none the less to reuse a program in an old partnership. Rockne obviously believes that program is a great vehicle for the judges, but it shows that he doesn't really care about the partnership. It's obvious he only cares about his own success, no matter who it's with.
    All of what you say would have been true if Rockne had dumped Mary Beth as a partner and then went on to use the same program with a new partner. But that is NOT what happened. Mary Beth quit the team because of her own personal health issues, which had nothing whatsoever to do with the program. Rockne was the one left with no partner midseason. If he can save time and money by reusing a program which never got an airing, so much the better for the new team.

  16. #296

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulaski73 View Post
    My question is: Now that Mary Beth is back on the market, who will she skate with/Who do you want to see her skate with?
    How about Ryan Bradley? Any other recently retired Men's or Pair's skaters?

    If Japan can start a guy from scratch ....and turn him into an instant pair skater..certainly we have some guys with distant pairs experience that could give it a go.

    I really liked Mary Beth's grit and determination in pairs. I hope she does come back.

  17. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulaski73 View Post
    ... Scimeca and Knierem are injured and Simpson and Blakmer are quits. What's going on in Colorado?

    Re S/K - See my post above. Your information would appear to be outdated, unless something has happened in the last 24 hours

  18. #298
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    Wait a minute, Simpson and Blackmer have split up? I hope this is false information. I was really looking forward to seeing their transition to the senior ranks this year.
    Last edited by TanithandBenFan; 08-04-2013 at 05:31 AM.
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  19. #299
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    From Sylvia's Twitter feed -

    Denney/Coughlin debuted their SP and LP at an exhibition in CO this weekend, scoring 67.05 (SP) and 132.51 (LP). Obviously, the score are inflated but I wonder what elements they're doing? 2 sets of SBS triples perhaps??

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    I was really surprised to see this quote on The Skating Lesson's blogcast page.
    I guess I figured MBM would be okay with it, or Rockne would have asked, or something. She doesn't sound happy at all.

    Mary Beth’s statement regarding Lindsay Davis & Rockne Brubaker’s 2013-2014 long program:

    “Honestly, heartbroken is an understatement. It hurt more than I could ever have imagined. I loved that program. I studied, researched and watched that old French movie every day. I loved it to death. The choreography was very similar and well let’s just say that I thought he would have respected the fact that it was our program. Well, I can’t control what he does, but I have lost lots of respect for him. I thought he respected our partnership more than that.”

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