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  1. #121

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    This news was just passed along to me... Lindsay Davis & Rockne Brubaker made their club competition debut earlier today in Ann Arbor, Michigan - I'm told they scored 54.74 (27.99 TES/26.75 PCS) in their Senior Pairs SP exhibition. That's all I know at the moment.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    This news was just passed along to me... Lindsay Davis & Rockne Brubaker made their club competition debut earlier today in Ann Arbor, Michigan - I'm told they scored 54.74 (27.99 TES/26.75 PCS) in their Senior Pairs SP exhibition. That's all I know at the moment.
    Wow. Not bad. It would be interesting to see their scores on individual elements.

    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ^^ Yes, I definitely agree as S/K, D/B and D/F are also my favorites right now. I also like D/S and C/S and U.S. Nationals will be in their backyard next year, so here's hoping one or both top Boston pairs teams at least make the podium -- C/S will seemingly be more likely to than D/S at this point.

    Ya know, though, we gotta be realistic: Denney/ Coughlin are still big-time favored with USFS, and they are definitely sound and consistent with their major moves and technical elements. Interesting the fact that Haven has more aesthetically-pleasing lines and grace than does her older sister. There is a bit of a facial resemblance, but they don't share a strong resemblance at all. Is Haven taller or are they about the same height? It seems good for Haven and Brandon to have departed from Colorado for another training center and new coaches. Sappenfield already has the top two USFS-favored senior teams, and now with Haven and Brandon moving up to seniors, it's probably helpful they've broken away in order to receive more exclusive attention in their upward development.

    With all the recent changes, is there an updated list of all the senior U.S. pair teams? Definitely Zhang/ Bartholomay surprised me with their improvements this season. They are hot to trot and will be very competitive. I'm not as enamored of K/O -- still a bit immature and unpolished for me -- but sure they are a solid team out of Florida.

    Maybe the ranking is something like this at the moment (obviously based on my personal preferences to a large degree except for D/C.* But I have to put D/C in top three because they are still considered the USFS favorite unless something drastically changes next season):

    Denney/ Coughlin
    Scimeca/ Knierim

    Then, it will be a tough battle for third and fourth place between:
    Denney/ Frazier
    Davis/ Brubaker
    Castelli/ Shnapir
    Zhang/ Bartholomay

    Seventh place and beyond and not sure of the order:
    Donlan/ Speroff
    Kayne/ O'Shea
    Baga/ Toth
    Leng/ LeDuc
    Bereswill/ Reagan

    Who else am I missing? Are Simpson/ Blackmer remaining juniors this coming season?

    *Re Denney/ Coughlin, I'm not down on them in terms of their talent and hard work, but I do prefer several other teams over them stylistically and aesthetically. However, D/C could be helped in their on-ice expressiveness and performance by improving their lines and posture, and by finding appropriate music that suits and enhances their unique personalities, instead of Sappenfield having them copy balletic, lyrical, romantic style which doesn't really suit them.
    I agree that D/C still are the most consistent and highest scoring US team right now, but they've got rapidly improving teams right behind them. My thinking is that if the improvement among a team like S/K continues, D/C will get supplanted. M/B in their 2nd year were beginning to be competitive with D/C by beating D/C in the SP at '12 Nationals. What would a team like D/B be able to do against D/C, who seem more cohesive and better paired than M/B?

    The push on all the teams is going to perhaps create a situation where we get (finally) some top notch teams at the Worlds level
    Last edited by olympic; 05-19-2013 at 10:48 PM.

  3. #123
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    ^^ True, high-level talent and competitive U.S. teams pushing each other should have a beneficial effect on overall international competitiveness of U.S. pairs teams.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    The 5 Junior pair teams from 2013 Nationals that have aged out of ISU Junior events in 2013-14 are:

    Britney Simpson/Matthew Blackmer (J1) - have tested up to Senior in the U.S. (#24 in the ISU World Standings so they hopefully should receive 1 Sr. GP) & #36 in ISU SB scores list
    Jessica Calalang/Zack Sidhu (J2) #37 SB
    Brianna de la Mora/Taylor Wilson (J5) #51 SB
    Jessica Pfund/AJ Reiss (J6) #43 SB; both already have tested up to Senior in the U.S.
    Olivia Oltmanns/Joshua Santillan (J11) #59 SB

    Also, Alexandria Shaughnessy/James Morgan (J10) are competing Senior at the Fort Wayne Pairs Classic, as mentioned earlier in this thread. I don't yet know if they have tested up to Senior.
    Thanks, but does this mean all these teams will move up to compete at senior U.S. Nationals in pairs?


    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    This news was just passed along to me... Lindsay Davis & Rockne Brubaker made their club competition debut earlier today in Ann Arbor, Michigan - I'm told they scored 54.74 (27.99 TES/26.75 PCS) in their Senior Pairs SP exhibition. That's all I know at the moment.
    Thanks for the info. Are any vids available btw?

  4. #124
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    Hopefully having a full season under their belts and stronger choreography will help S/K improve and reach a higher comfort level on the ice. Like them or not, D/C get through their programs with an ease and reliability that is unmatched by the other US teams (and most teams in the world). It's very hard for the other US teams to outscore them, and the only time that it's happened was when they fell in the SP at '12 Nationals. I'm not expecting anybody to "supplant" them, but considering the fact that S/K have some of the same strengths that make D/C so good (the big, well executed triple twist and throws: 3FTh + 3LoTh, which maxes out the difficulty on throws aside from the rare team that can do a 3ATh or greater), I could see them possibly beating D/C even with D/C having a pretty good skate. S/K were quite impressive and well received last season. It will be interesting to see how much more difficult they make their programs and if they can maintain the relatively good consistency they displayed last season in the process. And I'll be interested to see if Marcotte's choreography helps D/C, her work is outstanding.

    I was also impressed by the improvements of D/F and Z/B last season. D/F are a nice overall package with no substantial technical issues, and I hope they can maintain the poise that they displayed at Jr Worlds and find consistency. C/S also got quite a bit better, both in terms of choreography and consistency, but the issue with their throws probably needs to be solved for next season. Their second best throw triple or higher appears to be the 4S, and it's tough to rely on an element that's so difficult.

    Beyond that, it's pretty hard to say at this point.

  5. #125
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    ^^ ITA with your assessment of Denney/ Coughlin's strengths:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjRFbisOFsE 2012 Worlds FS D/C

    But had M/B stayed together I think they had grown to the point where they might have put up quite a spirited challenge to D/C's dominance. Alas, it was not to be (with M/B's pre-season split and D/C's unfortunate injury late last season). And now we'll see how strong the new Davis/ Brubaker pairing can become with enough time and experience together. Probably this coming season will be one more of gelling for D/B.

    I think Sciemeca/ Knierim are another exciting pairing and they hugely benefited from the chance at high level exposure last season. It was perhaps a bit of luck and magic (in addition to hard work) how quickly their partnership has achieved such success. I still think S/K will have to steadily improve their consistency and competitive experience in order to "supplant" D/C. They also need to continue building, polishing, and finding their on-ice identity. But the possibilities and potential are palpable.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxXYfzjNpTo 2013 Worlds FS S/K


    Re C/S, I think the height difference is an advantage with their lifts. With their throws perhaps the height and power is so huge that control becomes an issue for Marissa. I think C/S and their coaching team are very aware that the sbs elements and combo spins are their weakest elements made more difficult to overcome due to the height difference. They make the combo spins work for them, but have yet to overcome the challenges posed by the difficulty of achieving line and unison with their sbs spins. There is something quite dramatic and fearless about Marissa and Simon as a team. I do like them and I hope they are able to persevere and take things to a new level artistically and athletically. Again, I think they would benefit by more concerted and devoted off-ice ballet training to help improve their line, unison and performance qualities. But I think it bears noting that C/S are the defending U.S. National pairs champions and likely will be unwilling to relinquish that title without a heated battle. If they come out next season consistently strong and even more improved, C/S could surprise.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zognRBwLQkw 2013 4CC FS C/S


    Denney/ Frazier are still young yet, but amazing. If they continue to grow and develop in all aspects, what a wow they can be. Lots of magical moments here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eihOf2ZoyQ8 2013 JWC FS D/F

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbezXksMaa0 2013 JWC exhibition D/F

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LR3PQY7HU8 2012 D/F montage by Brandon's brother

  6. #126

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    The following teams should be skating senior next year.

    Kiri Baga/Taylor Toth -S8
    Becky Bereswill/Joshua Reagan -new
    Jessica Calalang/Zack Sidhu -J2
    Marissa Castelli/Simon Shnapir -S1
    Lindsay Davis/Rockne Brubaker -new
    Brianna De La Mora/Taylor Wilson -J5
    Caydee Denney/John Coughlin -S WD
    Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier -S5
    Gretchen Donlan/Andrew Speroff -S6
    Tarah Kayne/Daniel O'Shea -S7
    Dee Dee Leng/Timothy LeDuc -S9
    Olivia Oltmanns/Joshua Santillan -J11
    Jessica Pfund/AJ Reiss -J6
    Alexa Scimeca/Chris Knierim -S2
    Alexandria Shaughnessy/James Morgan -J10
    Britney Simpson/Matthew Blackmer -J1
    Felicia Zhang/Nathan Bartholomay -S3
    Last edited by sammyf; 05-20-2013 at 10:48 PM.

  7. #127

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    I don't yet know if Calalang/Sidhu, de la Mora/Wilson, Shaughnessy/Morgan, and/or Oltmanns/Santillan have taken their Senior Pairs tests - they have until the end of the summer to decide.

    ETA:
    Aaron/Settlage J3, Liu/Perini J4, Zaitsev/Stevens N1, Budd/Cheban N2, Takai/Johnson N4, and Dai/Fishman N5 are the 6 ISU Junior age-eligible teams currently listed in the ISP (along with Denney/Frazier who plan to make their senior international debut).
    Last edited by Sylvia; 05-20-2013 at 10:52 PM. Reason: To erase a sentence that no longer applies ;)
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  8. #128

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    If all of these teams go senior, I hope that they are talking to each other. Here is where they might stack up:

    BYES:
    Castelli/Shnapir
    Scimeca/Knierim
    Zhang/Bartholomay
    Denney/Frazier
    Denney/Coughlin (Not guaranteed, but very likely)

    Easterns
    Baga/Toth
    Donlan/Speroff
    Kayne/O'Shea
    Oltmanns/Santillian
    Shaughnessy/Morgan

    Mids
    Bereswill/Reagan
    dela Mora/Wilson
    Leng/Leduc
    Simpson/Blackmer

    Coasts
    Calalang/Sidhu
    Davis/Brubaker
    Pfund/Reiss

    Someone from Easterns needs to fill the void at Coasts! TALK TO EACH OTHER PEOPLE!!!!! (I really wish that Pairs and Dance would go to one Sectional and the top 12 teams would advance to nationals. It would save so much time and money, and the coaches wouldn't have to decided which couples to support. They would just go to one location.)
    Beefcake's fancy, saccharine, artsy, drag bingo cliche effusing, bipolar, OTT fashionista manchild

  9. #129
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    Denney and Frasier have a bye to Nationals for finishing 5th at Senior Nationals last year.

  10. #130
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    Note to Jayar, sammyf, Sylvia and others - Thank you for using full names. Quite honestly, I just skip posts that use initials. I am too old and too brain dead to try to figure out all the different team names from initials. I enjoy reading the opinions of those who take the trouble to use full names. I bet I'm not alone. Thanks again.

  11. #131

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    What A.H.Black said

  12. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayar View Post
    If all of these teams go senior, I hope that they are talking to each other. Here is where they might stack up:

    Easterns
    Baga/Toth
    Donlan/Speroff
    Kayne/O'Shea
    Oltmanns/Santillian
    Shaughnessy/Morgan
    Baga/Toth competed out of Midwesterns last year.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    Hopefully having a full season under their belts and stronger choreography will help S/K improve and reach a higher comfort level on the ice. Like them or not, D/C get through their programs with an ease and reliability that is unmatched by the other US teams (and most teams in the world). It's very hard for the other US teams to outscore them, and the only time that it's happened was when they fell in the SP at '12 Nationals. I'm not expecting anybody to "supplant" them, but considering the fact that S/K have some of the same strengths that make D/C so good (the big, well executed triple twist and throws: 3FTh + 3LoTh, which maxes out the difficulty on throws aside from the rare team that can do a 3ATh or greater), I could see them possibly beating D/C even with D/C having a pretty good skate. S/K were quite impressive and well received last season. It will be interesting to see how much more difficult they make their programs and if they can maintain the relatively good consistency they displayed last season in the process. And I'll be interested to see if Marcotte's choreography helps D/C, her work is outstanding.

    I was also impressed by the improvements of D/F and Z/B last season. D/F are a nice overall package with no substantial technical issues, and I hope they can maintain the poise that they displayed at Jr Worlds and find consistency. C/S also got quite a bit better, both in terms of choreography and consistency, but the issue with their throws probably needs to be solved for next season. Their second best throw triple or higher appears to be the 4S, and it's tough to rely on an element that's so difficult.

    Beyond that, it's pretty hard to say at this point.
    But, don't you think that D/C are maxed out in their scoring potential? They do a great 3twist, the harder throws -3f and 3l, SBS 3toes and 2x-2x seq. and were achieving higher levels on their non-jump and non-throw elements pre-injury. But even doing all that clean, they are stuck around 180 pt. totals and their international scores reflect that they lose a lot of ground to the top teams on the PCS side (which is more of a chronic problem and harder to fix). Thus, I think teams like S/K (who are still 'in the rough' but exhibit a greater ease of movement) and perhaps D/B (too soon to tell) could pass them even in the upcoming season.

  14. #134
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    ^^ I get ya, but it remains to be seen.


    And, A.H.Black, I totally understand what you mean. I particularly get lost sometimes in dance threads with all the initials. Perhaps a first mention of full names would be helpful and then abbreviations. I try to remember to do that, but I don't every time.

  15. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by mgobluegirl View Post
    Baga/Toth competed out of Midwesterns last year.
    Kiri Baga/Taylor Toth trained in the Chicago area last season. They recently relocated to Boston and are working with Bobby Martin and Carrie Wall (I believe they spent a little time here and there with them last season).
    Last edited by Sylvia; 05-22-2013 at 04:58 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  16. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Kiri Baga/Taylor Toth trained in the Chicago area last season. They recently relocated to Boston and are working with Bobby Martin and Carrie Wall (I believe they spent a little time here and there with them last season).
    Thank you for the information, Sylvia. Is Kiri working with Mark Mitchell and Peter Johansson for singles then?

  17. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie View Post
    Is Kiri working with Mark Mitchell and Peter Johansson for singles then?
    Yes.

    Registered teams for the inaugural Fort Wayne Pair Classic, June 7-8:
    Senior SP only - Donlan/Speroff, Kayne/O'Shea, Baga/Toth
    Junior - Budd/Cheban (N2), Takai/Johnson (N4)
    Novice - Knoop/Chinault (N6), Gallagher/Horton (N8), Bertsch/Hale (Int1), Burke/Schwab (Int2), LaChance/Anderson, Cirinia Gillett/Maximiliano Fernandez (new team coached by Jim Peterson & Lyndon Johnston)

    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherC View Post
    Oh man, that Fort Wayne pairs competition sounds amazing! I have something going on the Friday of that weekend but maybe I'll head up there on Saturday to see some of the competition. Hmmm....something to ponder.
    FYI, it currently looks like no Senior pairs will compete on Saturday (I heard that Shaughnessy/Morgan are likely WD from the FS), but there should be additional Senior pairs not competing who will be there attending the National Pairs camp/monitoring part of the event.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 05-22-2013 at 05:54 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Kiri Baga/Taylor Toth trained in the Chicago area last season. They recently relocated to Boston and are working with Bobby Martin and Carrie Wall (I believe they spent a little time here and there with them last season).
    Wow, three very good U.S. pairs teams under Martin and Wall ... I didn't realize Baga/ Toth had relocated.

  19. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Yes.

    Registered teams for the inaugural Fort Wayne Pair Classic, June 7-8:
    Senior SP only - Donlan/Speroff, Kayne/O'Shea, Baga/Toth
    Junior - Budd/Cheban (N2), Takai/Johnson (N4)
    Novice - Knoop/Chinault (N6), Gallagher/Horton (N8), Bertsch/Hale (Int1), Burke/Schwab (Int2), LaChance/Anderson, Cirinia Gillett/Maximiliano Fernandez (new team coached by Jim Peterson & Lyndon Johnston)


    FYI, it currently looks like no Senior pairs will compete on Saturday (I heard that Shaughnessy/Morgan are likely WD from the FS), but there should be additional Senior pairs not competing who will be there attending the National Pairs camp/monitoring part of the event.
    My info from the skating director--current planned schedule, at least:
    Best times to see some teams skating their programs:
    Friday: June 7th
    5:30-6:40pm ĖNovice/ Intermediate/ Junior
    6:50-7:50pm -Junior/Senior

    Saturday: June 8th
    10:00-11:50 ĖNovice /Junior/Senior

    And I guess the camp will be going on all weekend (?) and will include teams & coaches from all over the US (including, I am told, the 2013 national champs).
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

  20. #140

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    Thank you, LilJen! Will you be able to watch any part of the competition this year?

    It currently looks like Skate Detroit will be the main pairs competition in the U.S. this summer. Scimeca/Knierim and Denney/Frazier both have mentioned in recent articles that they will compete in Detroit, just to name two top teams.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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