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  1. #81
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    People who are bothered because they don't do better than the others, or bothered that someone else - judges, audience that doesn't respond as loudly, and others in general who have seen them skate - would not feel that way if they were not at least in some part skating to make themselves gain a sense of pride, one which that has nothing to do with skating except that skating was the method for getting it. I'm proud of myself when I do something better than myself because it means I'm improving. Getting a higher place at a competition often means the skater just had a better day than the other skaters on that particular day, not that the skater is better than them in general, or that the skater has come closer to perfecting the required skills.

    Of course the only reason I'm presenting any kind of debate on any details at all here, is that I'm tired of people having this argument about ISI and USFSA. People talk about the shrinking state of figure skating in the US. The fact of the matter is, one organization is not enough to address all aspects of skating in the US, and without the support and organization of both of the ones we have, skating as a national interest would decline. Less business = less businesses = less skating opportunities that are needed to grow great skaters, skaters all of whom have benefited directly or indirectly, in broad exposure or from behind the scenes, from the work of both organizations.

  2. #82
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    “It is far more important to have a good judge than a possible conflict of interest." - Ottavio Cinquanta
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    Quote Originally Posted by treesprite View Post
    What is interesting to me is that while history shows the 2 organizations trying to work together and each making changes to try to balance out so skaters can have more opportunities, so many strictly-USFSA skaters seem to be at war with the ISI organization and would never consider doing an ISI competition, even though it is now possible to use the exact same program for both the USFSA comp and the corresponding ISI open FS comp.
    I'm not sure who you're referring to with this post but my criticism of ISI was based on personal, real experience with ISI coaches who did not want to teach me anything outside my level. I have not had this problem with my three subsequent USFS coaches. Because I want to learn and progress is exactly why I switched to USFS. I was not getting that opportunity in ISI. My original goal was to test my USFS equivalent to ISI, but once I got in USFS I became very motivated by the MIF structure, which doesn't exist in ISI. Some people's goal is to test. Other people's goal is to compete. I found that I could have more testing opportunities with MIF in USFS, since my FS level stagnated.

    Quote Originally Posted by treesprite View Post
    Perhaps some people think skating isn't simply the act of skating on ice, which is what could be the cause of this debate about skating "just for fun". Maybe their idea of fun is all the non-skating aspects of skating and not solely the skating in and of itself. Maybe some these people have some other secret motive for continuing to skate, like wanting to feel that they "belong" to something bigger than themselves, or wanting to prove themselves better than other people, or wanting to have some external disciplinary force to make up for a feeling of a lack of self-discipline. Seriously, if there were no more test sessions or competitions available, and no governing bodies, organizations, and all the bureaucracy they involve, would anyone who truly is serious about skating actually quit skating? Or would they all admit that they are serious about skating because they have fun skating, love how skating makes them feel, and have a happier life as a result of regularly stepping onto the ice and skating?

    The motivation to skate is the sheer love and joy of skating for me, not whether or not there are tests and how hard they are, or how competitions are judged. When I feel like I am close enough to my past skill level to do something in front of other people, I will consider competitions, but I'm not going to go by what organization is behind it or how it will be judged, just whether or not I'll enjoy myself skating in the particular competition social atmosphere which is presenting its opportunity to me. If I'm not going to enjoy something, why put myself through it when the only thing that could possibly be at stake if I don't place is shameful, shallow, momentary self-pride? But then again, I have already tested under both organizations at their comparable skill levels to one another (based on ISI now having open FS levels), which will give me that opportunity to use the same program for both.
    Those are some big assumptions. If we lived in a world where there were no test levels, then I would have to find another way to motivate myself in skating, but we do live in that world, where I can take advantage of tests that push me to learn new things and reach higher levels. Some people may thrive without that structure, but not everyone does and there's nothing wrong with that. Many people think that learning progressively harder tricks and then having the accomplishment of a passed test IS "fun."

    Quote Originally Posted by treesprite View Post
    People who refuse to do ISI just because it isn't USFSA, with the mindset that the tests are not worthy simply because of how they are done, are throwing away a lot of opportunity to enter competitions to show off their skills and enjoy the social environment of it. This is completely self-defeating for those whose motivation to skate is the ability to compete, rather than to just to improve their quality of life by way of skating.
    I appreciate that ISI and USFS program times are the same, so that you can cross-compete. I would never say I would not do an ISI competition ever. In my area, ISI is not the dominant program, and I'm more than occupied enough with USFS test challenges and competitions to keep me busy. If ISI were the dominant program I would probably compete in both while continuing to test in USFS for the MIF program.

  3. #83
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    Just to clarify, I was not referring to any specific people who have made comments in the threads. To be honest, when I look at long threads I tend to ignore any information not in the text boxes, meaning I have no clue what specific forum member said what - I read for the info content not the social interaction. I see the same sort of stuff all over the internet and so there is no reason to focus my attention on individuals.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by treesprite View Post
    Just to clarify, I was not referring to any specific people who have made comments in the threads. To be honest, when I look at long threads I tend to ignore any information not in the text boxes, meaning I have no clue what specific forum member said what - I read for the info content not the social interaction. I see the same sort of stuff all over the internet and so there is no reason to focus my attention on individuals.
    I think the point being made was that it was, I guess, a little a shocking, looking at reasons that you gave for people competing, which all seemed pretty negative, and actually I think are simply wrong about myself and most of the people I know who have competed. Everyone has their own motivations for doing what they choose to do, and I don't think it has anything to do with ISI and USFSA....not least because not all of us skate in the US.

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