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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    I don't think Grishuk & Platov represented Ukraine but I do recall in Albertville during medal ceremonies, skaters representing the Unified Team had their republic announced after like Unified Team - Russia. If they had won a medal, they might have been announced as Unified Team - Ukraine. But both had lived and trained in Moscow for ages. That's probably why they represented Russia after the break-up as opposed to Ukraine.
    Thank you; that's interesting. What happened in 93? Did they obtain citizenship etc.?

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    There's an interview with Paula Zahn where she asks Mishkutenok (raised in Minsk) and Dmitriev (born in Ukraine) about nationalities and they express respectively, "I am Russian," and "Saint Petersbourg is my home now." Grishuk and Platov have Ukranian roots and names. However, I think they spoke Russian as a first language in an Odessa with stronger ties to Russia than one finds farther west in Ukraine.

    On a shallow level, I always think of Albertville as the cute Russian boys Olympics -- Dmitriev, Pomonarenko, Platov, and Petrov. Maybe it should be Ukranian. These are all Ukranian names ...?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minou View Post
    There's an interview with Paula Zahn where she asks Mishkutenok (raised in Minsk) and Dmitriev (born in Ukraine) about nationalities and they express respectively, "I am Russian," and "Saint Petersbourg is my home now." Grishuk and Platov have Ukranian roots and names. However, I think they spoke Russian as a first language in an Odessa with stronger ties to Russia than one finds farther west in Ukraine.

    On a shallow level, I always think of Albertville as the cute Russian boys Olympics -- Dmitriev, Pomonarenko, Platov, and Petrov. Maybe it should be Ukranian. These are all Ukranian names ...?
    Ponomarenko is a Ukrainian name but I think Sergei was born and raised in Kazakhstan. I wouldn't be surprised if he had some Kazakh heritage.

  4. #44

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    Re Slipchuk:
    Quote Originally Posted by Manaud View Post
    He was in Calgary as well. I believe he and Kurt Browning were training mates in Edmonton.
    Slipchuk didn't make the Canadian team in 88, although he did compete at 87 Worlds the year before (and at each of 89 through 92 Worlds). Neil Patterson beat out Slipchuk for the third spot in Calgary.

    Browning and Slipchuk both trained out of the Royal Glenora in Edmonton, but had different coaches - Browning was with Michael Jiranek and I'm pretty sure Slipchuk was with Jan and Cynthia Ullmark. There's a cute story in Kurt's autobiography about the first time he met "Slipper" as Kurt called him where Slipchuk went up to Kurt and said something like "Hi, I'm Mike Slipchuk and I can do a double lutz, what can you do?"...Kurt couldn't do a double lutz at the time and felt a little bit intimidated by the very confident little guy with the coke-bottle lens glasses. Slipchuk also coached out of Calgary (at the Glencoe club) for several years before becoming the high performance director...I'm struggling to think of who some of his skaters might have been, but he had some reasonably successful skaters at the national level. I believe he coached Courtney Sokal in 2001 when she finished 2nd in junior ladies behind Joannie Rochette (and actually beat Rochette in the free skate), but no one else is coming to mind.

    The skating moment I remember most about Slipchuk was him getting a nosebleed in the middle of the short program en route to his 92 Canadian title (Browning was injured, but it was a pretty big deal to beat Stojko who was heavily favoured to win after Browning's withdrawal). I think it's the only time I've seen a program stopped for that reason. I did really like his Stray Cat Strut SP from both 90 and 91 Worlds.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minou View Post
    There's an interview with Paula Zahn where she asks Mishkutenok (raised in Minsk) and Dmitriev (born in Ukraine) about nationalities and they express respectively, "I am Russian," and "Saint Petersbourg is my home now." Grishuk and Platov have Ukranian roots and names. However, I think they spoke Russian as a first language in an Odessa with stronger ties to Russia than one finds farther west in Ukraine.
    This is interesting; I'd forgotten Dmitriev was Ukrainian. So how did it work after 92? Were M/D and G/P given the choice who to skate for? Or were they told? Did they get , or already have, Russian citizenship?

  6. #46
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    I am pretty sure I can recall Platov being listed as Ukrainian at least one year in the Champions on Ice program but I think this is when he skated with Usova as a pro who was Russian.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maofan7 View Post
    [*]At U.S. Nationals, a few weeks prior to the Olympics, Yamaguchi had performed the best free program of her life, in which she even managed to successfully land her bete noire, the triple salchow.... There were 7 triples, which included a 3Zx3T combination, 3Z, 3S, 3R, 3T, and 3F.
    Wasn't there something funny about her combination? I seem to recall that there was some kind of step between the two jumps or something similar.

    Harding trailed in 6th place after a disastrous SP in which she fell on a 3A attempt.
    No more disastrous than Midori's. In fact, I think she should've been ahead of Midori for attempting a more difficult jump.

    Nevertheless, she did enough in her LP to move her up from 6th place to 4th overall.
    She also did more than enough to beat Nancy in the FS.

    Incidentally, does anybody remember what jumps Chen Lu landed in her programs? Not that long ago, some folks on here even thought she should have medaled.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    Yes, [G&P] were both born and raised in Odessa, Ukraine.
    Didn't know that. All the more interesting that she referred to her fellow countrywoman as a cree-minal.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    She [Harding] also did more than enough to beat Nancy in the FS.

    Incidentally, does anybody remember what jumps Chen Lu landed in her programs? Not that long ago, some folks on here even thought she should have medaled.
    Did Harding actually beat Kerrigan in the free but was too far behind to beat her overall? That would be much more acceptable.

    Chen skated rather well in the free and landed 6 triples, including 2 lutzes and one of every other triple bar the axel. Her opening lutz was funky but she pretty much held it together and kept it clean. Her last jump was supposed to be a 3toe but she popped it and turned it into a 2toe 2 flip sequence which she stepped out off - this was in the final seconds of her program. She also displayed a detailed program with good choreography, if only marred by subpar spins and a lack of finesse.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Did Harding actually beat Kerrigan in the free but was too far behind to beat her overall?
    No, but what I was getting at is that she should have. A total joke.

    Chen skated rather well in the free and landed 6 triples, including 2 lutzes and one of every other triple bar the axel. Her opening lutz was funky but she pretty much held it together and kept it clean. Her last jump was supposed to be a 3toe but she popped it and turned it into a 2toe 2 flip sequence which she stepped out off - this was in the final seconds of her program. She also displayed a detailed program with good choreography, if only marred by subpar spins and a lack of finesse.
    Thanks, Marco. Was she clean in the SP too? If so, sounds like she should've won the bronze.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    Thanks, Marco. Was she clean in the SP too? If so, sounds like she should've won the bronze.
    Lu Chen ? Not perfectly clean : step out on the 2Flip. The combo was good but small, and the final 2Axel good but, she looked tired at the end.

  12. #52
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    I would have Lu Chen 3rd in the LP.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post



    No more disastrous than Midori's. In fact, I think she should've been ahead of Midori for attempting a more difficult jump.
    Even though Harding didn't even do the second jump of the combination? From what I remember back then, just doing the second jump of the combination (even if it actually wasn't in combination per se due to an error between the jumps) was still given credit for at least fulfilling the requirement. I also felt that Midori had stronger spins, stronger choreography, and had a much better program overall.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loves_Shizuka View Post
    I would have Lu Chen 3rd in the LP.
    I also would've put Lu Chen in 3rd in the LP.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Lu Chen ? Not perfectly clean : step out on the 2Flip. The combo was good but small, and the final 2Axel good but, she looked tired at the end.
    Thanks, Brian. OK, so it seems that in the SP she could have been as high as 4th, or as low as maybe 8th. So if she finished 3rd in the LP, Tonya 4th, and Nancy no higher than 5th, she might well have won the bronze.

    Some folks say Nancy was robbed in '94. I think a better term is payback.
    Last edited by neptune; 03-12-2013 at 01:37 PM.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    Even though Harding didn't even do the second jump of the combination?
    Did Midori complete the second jump? I don't remember Scotty saying anything about that when comparing the two, but he isn't the world's greatest commentator.

    From what I remember back then, just doing the second jump of the combination (even if it actually wasn't in combination per se due to an error between the jumps) was still given credit for at least fulfilling the requirement.
    What would be the point difference?

    I also felt that Midori had stronger spins, stronger choreography, and had a much better program overall.
    I'd have to go back and watch the programs, but I generally thought Tonya had better presentation than Midori. Of course, this was a SP, so spins, etc., could certainly make the difference.

    Anyway, regardless of how the programs should have been scored, I think reputation played the biggest role in the difference in their scores, just as it did with Nancy vs. Tonya in the LP.
    Last edited by neptune; 03-12-2013 at 01:40 PM.

  17. #57
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    ^ I think that a Midori v. Tonya analysis of the '91 - '92 SP is intriguing. Both had essentially the same jump layout - 3x-2t, 2flip, 2x at the end of the program. I personally think Tonya had an edge over Midori on spins (except maybe the back sit - Tonya's position wasn't that great), neither had a great spiral position, but Midori probably had packaging that was more acceptable to the judges, which may have given her an edge on the 2nd mark. I think some of that came from the choice in music

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    ^ I think that a Midori v. Tonya analysis of the '91 - '92 SP is intriguing. Both had essentially the same jump layout - 3x-2t, 2flip, 2x at the end of the program. I personally think Tonya had an edge over Midori on spins (except maybe the back sit - Tonya's position wasn't that great), neither had a great spiral position, but Midori probably had packaging that was more acceptable to the judges, which may have given her an edge on the 2nd mark. I think some of that came from the choice in music
    Thanks for the info, olympic. IOW, Midori was more conservative, and Tonya was pushing the envelope a bit too much, so the former style was better rewarded. Sounds pretty typical of skating judging, doesn't it?

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    Thanks, Brian. OK, so it seems that in the SP she could have been as high as 4th, or as low as maybe 8th. So if she finished 3rd in the LP, Tonya 4th, and Nancy no higher than 5th, she might well have won the bronze.

    Some folks say Nancy was robbed in '94. I think a better term is payback.
    Chen was pretty much a newbie then. She was going to have squeeky clean in the short to be in the final group.

  20. #60
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    ^It sure does.

    Another intriguing factor is Compulsory Figures. I often wonder what the podium would've looked like, who would've competed, and who would've stuck around until '92 if they had kept Compulsory Figures until then, instead of eliminating them in '90.

    It always seemed weird to me that they didn't end Figures at the conclusion of the '92 season. It just seemed like a natural end point. Plus, it would've given a group of skaters strong in Figures a fighting chance to shoot for the '92 Olympics.

    BTW, who were the strong Figures skaters in this era? - I think Jill Trenary, Patricia Neske, Natalia Lebedeva, Joanne Conway, maybe someone like Marina Kiehlmann or Evelin Grossmann?

    Of the 'big 4' - Tonya was better at figures than Kristi, Midori and Nancy, way better than someone like Surya. Tonya may have been quite the skating phenomenon, dominating in Figures (at least over the strong free skaters) and being a tech rival to Midori in the SP and LP (of course, personal life choices come into play, too)

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