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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Can I get a non-partisan opinion on the 2012 Worlds results? Did V/M deserve to win? I don't follow dance much but like both teams generally.
    For those with access to the archives, here is the Worlds 2012 aftermath thread. People seem rather underwhelmed by both FDs.

  2. #22
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    Davis/White had the more crowd-pleasing routine, Virtue/Moir were the better skaters (even if their dance was a bit twee).
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  3. #23

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    I'll drink the Kool Aid. I like D/W best although I admire both. V/M kind of bore me most of the time, and I really don't like their Carmen program. I think I've seen the ballet too often which has a lot more depth and REAL passion and depth of artistry for me to think much of V/M's effort. I keep hearing they're so fabulous with this skate, but there are many other of their skates I like better. To me, Tessa is just not Carmen in any way. She's beautiful, wonderful.....but so entirely different from a Carmen persona to me. But that's just me. I love D/W's joie de vivre and Charlie precious face and energy and zest. Scott is just as handsome, but in a different way. In fact, he's gorgeous. Tessa is a delicate beauty and very, very lovely but in no way can she scare up a Latina character. But anyway - how lucky are we to have 2 such lovely teams to watch? I confess to not knowing a lot of skating technique and that might obliterate my opinion in many minds here on FSU. Like I care. However, I do represent a very large viewership who don't know technique but who love skating. Both teams are wonderful. I prefer D/W but they're both worthy of anyone's admiration.

  4. #24

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    I loathe it any time someone thinks they can speak on behalf of every person in an audience.

  5. #25
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    I thought it was a good article. Davis and White are very sportsmanlike, and I think this article tells an important story about the "was robbed" politics and rhetoric that some skaters have played to have extraordinary influence. Skate Canada and the North American media played the "was robbed" song so loudly in 2002 that it generated twenty four hour new coverage even before the unstable French judge was interrogated and had a nervous breakdown. I think Davis and White have a uniquely zen attitude about final results, and this has helped them.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    I thought it was a good article. Davis and White are very sportsmanlike, and I think this article tells an important story about the "was robbed" politics and rhetoric that some skaters have played to have extraordinary influence.
    But as you say, Davis & White generally don't get involved in the wuzrobbed stuff. So why does of any of that belong in a story about them? Especially with an example that has nothing to do with them, unless I missed when they competed in the 2010 Olympic men's event.

    Skate Canada and the North American media played the "was robbed" song so loudly in 2002 that it generated twenty four hour new coverage even before the unstable French judge was interrogated and had a nervous breakdown.
    Wow, first we have the "Plushy was robbed" argument, and now we have the "2002 pairs results were OK until Skate Canada and the NA media started bitching about them" argument. What next? "Madge Syers could have kicked every man's competitive ass in 1903 and that was why the ISU politicked women competitors out of worlds"?
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  7. #27
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    It's not that big of a leap of imagination or outrageous to compare two recent contested losses, especially when you are doing it to highlight attributes of the subject of the article.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    It's not that big of a leap of imagination or outrageous to compare two recent contested losses, especially when you are doing it to highlight attributes of the subject of the article.
    D&W's loss at worlds has very little similarity to Plushenko's loss at the Olys, so there is no reason to choose that particular example for contrast.

    And speaking of Plushenko - caseyedwards, is this you?
    http://www.reuters.com/article/comme...92801N20130309
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  9. #29
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    What would be an example of a memorable contested loss that would meet your criteria as similar enough?

    The point of the article is still valid. One misses the forest for the trees by complaining about Plushenko's loss not being the perfect comparison. It's rhetorical/literary not historical analysis. You are entitled based on your in depth knowledge of skating to think it's not relevant, but the article isn't about 2012 worlds or what happened. It's about Davis and White's perseverance after a skating loss that some observers thought was wrong. Sometimes to communicate this to the public you use symbols and stories they are familiar with; to make the point that David and White have remained friendly and respectful of their rivals the Plushenko contrast is interesting.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    What would be an example of a memorable contested loss that would meet your criteria as similar enough?
    D&W's loss wasn't a controversially contested loss, except maybe in the writer's mind, so there isn't any need to make the comparison in the first place.
    And since the article is about D&W's appearance at Fake London Worlds and their reputation/performance leading up to it, actually, yes, it is a historical analysis.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  11. #31

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    The first paragraph is extremely stupid, with reference to Plushenko. Did this writer even watch Plushenko's performance at the 2010 Olympics? It was anything but "wobbly". The only mistake he had was a turnout on the landing of a 3A. He did not throw tantrums and certainly not to get his fans on his side. I was on his side, based on what he did on the ice. I am shocked that Davis made a reference to Plushenko, however. That was stupid. Even though D&W are my favorites, that comment makes them go down in my mind.

    However, the stupidest thing about the article is its title.

    ETA: (Although no relevance to D&W) the only skaters that have thrown a hissy fit and tantrums are 1) Surya Bonaly, and 2) S&P. In the latter case they were successful to getting the results of the competition changed. Plushenko did nothing of the sort.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    The first paragraph is extremely stupid, with reference to Plushenko. Did this writer even watch Plushenko's performance at the 2010 Olympics? It was anything but "wobbly". The only mistake he had was a turnout on the landing of a 3A. He did not throw tantrums and certainly not to get his fans on his side. I was on his side, based on what he did on the ice. I am shocked that Davis made a reference to Plushenko, however. That was stupid. Even though D&W are my favorites, that comment makes them go down in my mind.

    However, the stupidest thing about the article is its title.
    Do you think she brought up Plushenko? I'm sure she was asked about him.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by shan View Post
    Do you think she brought up Plushenko? I'm sure she was asked about him.
    The quote is from the article, and it does not say if she was asked about him.

    "I don't know we could have pulled off Plushenko's attitude," Davis told Reuters in a telephone interview before dissolving into laughter. "It seems to work for him."

  14. #34
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    Thanks for linking the archived thread, Cherub721. After having given it a cursory read (the first few pages) I didn't find much by FSU standards.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    The quote is from the article, and it does not say if she was asked about him.

    "I don't know we could have pulled off Plushenko's attitude," Davis told Reuters in a telephone interview before dissolving into laughter. "It seems to work for him."
    It is implied that the writer was the one who brought this up from the first three sentences of the article.

  16. #36
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    "ETA: (Although no relevance to D&W) the only skaters that have thrown a hissy fit and tantrums are 1) Surya Bonaly, and 2) S&P. In the latter case they were successful to getting the results of the competition changed. Plushenko did nothing of the sort."

    S&P didn't throw a hissy fit...that was the press.

  17. #37
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    The article claims that White said "In our minds we were champions because of the way we skated," and that Davis said "A great number of people came up to us and complimented us on our skate at the worlds and told us they thought that we deserved to win."

    If that is true, it is no less and no more than what Plushenko said after the olympics. This is not throwing a tantrum or whining, but it shows that they were disappointed with the result, probably like most second-placed competitors.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    The first paragraph is extremely stupid, with reference to Plushenko. Did this writer even watch Plushenko's performance at the 2010 Olympics? It was anything but "wobbly". The only mistake he had was a turnout on the landing of a 3A. He did not throw tantrums and certainly not to get his fans on his side. I was on his side, based on what he did on the ice. I am shocked that Davis made a reference to Plushenko, however. That was stupid. Even though D&W are my favorites, that comment makes them go down in my mind.

    However, the stupidest thing about the article is its title.

    ETA: (Although no relevance to D&W) the only skaters that have thrown a hissy fit and tantrums are 1) Surya Bonaly, and 2) S&P. In the latter case they were successful to getting the results of the competition changed. Plushenko did nothing of the sort.

    I kinda thought his rudely standing on the top of the podium when he came out for the medal ceremony was a tad tantrumish...
    Team Peeps!

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    If that is true, it is no less and no more than what Plushenko said after the olympics. This is not throwing a tantrum or whining, but it shows that they were disappointed with the result, probably like most second-placed competitors.
    But I bet D&W didn't put a platinum medal on their own website.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  20. #40
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    S&P were pretty well behaved, but the American press and all the Canadian skating establishment colluded to turn it into a "was robbed" story. Did you see Tracy Wilson running out to congratulate Jamie Sale? As Jamie stood there with her sweaty arm pits, Tracy exclaimed almost defiantly, "You did it!" The camera/audio cuts away so we don't see more of this Canadian-to-Canadian talk, but if you have ever heard or read Canadians appraising their own, you would know that all of the Canadian skaters and officials were not just heartbroken but outraged by the result. The Canadian coaches and officials had had enough of losing again and again and again (and yet again) throughout the years. With the American media in their pockets (the scandal was a ratings boon), they could complain to their hearts' content. Sale and Pelletier were remarkably poised and realistic about it all, and I think it did ultimately help them to get a fair hearing from the ISU/IOC. Had they behaved like many of the clamoring old Canadians, there might have been some animosity against them for complaining, particularly in Russia. As it turns out, keeping it classy is a winning strategy even when you lose.

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