The rise of the Philippines in figure skating

[Vagabond]

I don't know who you are referring to but I am not remotely connected to any skater.

You must not be an ice dance fan.

I was making a jocular reference to Lynn Mitchell. Google is your friend.

What is the point of having multiple federations-many of whom have little clout-to be only represented by skaters from huge feds like USA, Canada, Russia?

Well, let's see.....

Russia has recently been represented by Yuko Kawaguchi, who was born in and used to skate for Japan, Tatiana Volosozhar, who was born in and used to skate for Ukraine, Jonathan Guerreiro was born in Australia and reprented that country before changing federations, and Ksenia Makarova, who used to skate for the United States. If we go back a little further, we see that Elena Berezhnaya skated for Latvia before she skated for Russia, Fedor Andreev skated for Canada before he skated for Russia, and Julia Obertas was born in and skated for Ukraine before she skated for Russia.

Canada has recently been represented by Piper Gilles, who used to skate for the United States. Kaitlyn Weaver skated for the United States before representing Canada. Bryce Davison was born in the United States and has never relinquished his American citizenship. Utako Wakamatsu competed internationally for Japan before representing Canada, and she actually chose not to obtain Canadian citizenship because it would mean relinquishing her Japanese citizenship. Viktor Kraatz was born in West Germany.

The United States has been represented internationally by, among others, Rena Inoue and Kyoko Ina, who had previously skated for Japan, Gorsha Sur, Denis Petukhov and Peter Tchernyshev, who had previously skated for the U.S.S.R. and/or Russia, and Todd Sand, who had previously represented Denmark. Joelle Forte and Ann Patrice McDonough were born in South Korea.

What is the point of allowing these federations to have so much clout when they have to filch their talent from other federations?

[Ziggy]

What is the point of allowing these federations to have so much clout when they have to filch their talent from other federations?

+1

[Sylvia]

Half of the female singles competitors at 4 Continents were americans. These girls probably had never set foot in the countries that they represent.

Actually, only 5 of the 20 ladies at 2013 Four Continents were born outside the country they represent and I know all 5 have set foot in their respective countries before due to family ties and/or competitions there. Not all of them are wealthy either and usually have to cover their own competition costs.

[TheIronLady]

[QUOTE=icedancefan;3859061]

Were country switches a problem for you when it was Tanith Belbin? What about when foreign coaches come to the US to train mainly American skaters?


hell yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
act of Congress no less.
What is the point of allowing multiple countries to represent if the competitors only represent in name only.
These countries should have the opportunity to send their own. Instead it is nothing but wealthy americans taking local's spots. Because they can.($$$$$$$) Half of the female singles competitors at 4 Continents were americans. These girls probably had never set foot in the countries that they represent.

The Philippines and the USA have close historic ties , and there are millions of Philipino Americans going generations in the USA. It is not unusual that there would be people eligible for both American and Philippine citizenship. You don't necessary have to be any richer than anyone else, and it is perfectly legitimate. Regardless, isn't this new crop of talent actually native to the Philippine islands?

Based on your sentiment, I wonder if you think Americans should not use foreign choreographers. It's only the rich ones who can afford to hire Russian choreographers.

I think someone who has dual citizenship often is doing a great thing by representing another country even while training in the USA. Not all skaters who represent "small countries" are as bad the Russians, Canadians, and Americans who have represented Azerbaijan, Belarus, and Georgia. Most of the AZE lot have been desperate mercenaries or just desperate. Desperation is something I do frown upon when it comes to representing a country. Skaters who could represent the USA in pairs, like Jennifer Don, but who chose to be fifth rate singles competitors for their grandmother's country are lame. It's a subjective line you cross, but I think country hopping is what some find distasteful, especially when someone represents a country where he/she cannot speak the language.

Also, I believe in some cases the country's federation/program doesn't seem to benefit in anything but a superficial way. How many homegrown AZE skaters have we seen? Have all these random tossed-over Russians, CANs, and USAs created an independent and competitive AZE field. The answer is obviously no.

Yet, in other cases, Americans taking advantage of citizenship loopholes (which is what American dual citizenship technically is, albeit a completely legal one in the USA) can be good for other countries and the sport in two respects. It can A) create native interest in the sport and increase competition "locally," or B) it can be positive when the skater represents the non-resident country successfully by any standard and is not a mediocre Four Continents reject. Alice Sue Claeys of Atlanta, Georgia, for example, who we discussed in another thread represented Belgium for a time (1991-1994) because of her Belgian grandparent. If nothing else, you can say she made Belgium look good with two memorable programs and a top 8 world finish in 1992. That worlds would have been less impressive had she been left at home as a 5th or 6th place American. She also was too tall for pairs, so that wasn't an option.

Every situation is unique, but there are definitely classy and less classy ways to represent countries you don't reside in.

[kwanfan1818]

Dual or multiple US/[other(s)] citizenship is not a loophole: the Supreme Court ruled that it was the constitutional right of US citizens to retain their US citizenship while attaining or being born into others in most cases.

[TheIronLady]

Dual or multiple US/[other(s)] citizenship is not a loophole: the Supreme Court ruled that it was the constitutional right of US citizens to retain their US citizenship while attaining or being born into others in most cases.

This is very true, and thank you for clarifying, but when people object to skaters shopping around for federations, I don't think they are concerned about what USA law is--though it is of course relevant to the IOC. As a fan, I feel that a few American skaters are lame for changing countries to do singles when they had opportunities in pairs within the United States, but that is my opinion. Clearly, funding and federation politics come into play, and so may the dangers of pair skating, so I cannot can say what is the right decision for that individual.

I believe some degree of patriotism and continuity is good. Having ancestral or familial ties to a country you represent is good. These are just my personal feelings on the matter. The AZE federation has sometimes seemed like the Cayman Islands of skating citizenship.

I apologize for this diversion from celebrating the rise of multiple skaters from the Philippines.

[Zemgirl]

As a fan, I feel that a few American skaters are lame for changing countries to do singles when they had opportunities in pairs within the United States, but that is my opinion. Clearly, funding and federation politics come into play, and so may the dangers of pair skating, so I cannot can say what is the right decision for that individual.

As you noted, pairs skating isn't for everyone, nor should it be viewed as a plan B for lower ranked men and ladies. If it's what they want to do and they're good at it, that's great - but if they have other options they'd rather explore, that's fine too.

I apologize for this diversion from celebrating the rise of multiple skaters from the Philippines.

That is indeed a welcome trend. And even if not all of them live in the Philippines, having skaters of different backgrounds makes the sport more diverse, which is also good.

[TheIronLady]

I agree with you so much about the value of diversity of nations and peoples. Somebody mentioned the Phillippines and performing arts, and it is true that they have many good actors and singers. It would not surprise me if skating keeps growing there.

[Bournekraatzfan]

Thank you so much for starting this thread, AlexDSSF!

I have been following some of the Filipino skaters, especially Christopher Caluza (and it is nice to encounter some of his other fans here), whom I think is a beautiful skater. Is he still being coached by N. Bobrina?

and I think Melissa Bulanhagui has a definite shot at making the Olympics next year.

I have long admired the arts programs in the Philippines, and I would love to see that influence in figure skating.

... And even if not all of them live in the Philippines, having skaters of different backgrounds makes the sport more diverse, which is also good.

ITA.

[Bournekraatzfan]

What is the point of allowing these federations to have so much clout when they have to filch their talent from other federations?

haha, love it

[Ziggy]

Yes, Bobrina was with Caluza in the K&C at Worlds.

[Bournekraatzfan]

Yes, Bobrina was with Caluza in the K&C at Worlds.

thanks, Ziggy. I missed the live stream so I didn't get to see all of the skaters. I was hoping someone would upload his performance to youtube, but I haven't found anything yet.

[Seerek]

Will be interesting what the decision process will be for the male entrant for Nebelhorn. I think both should make top 6 (based on those countries who still need to qualify)

[zilam98]

being filipina myself, i would love to see the philippines make an impact on ice-dancing since dancesport is huge there, and we filipinos love dancing.

[Ziggy]

Will be interesting what the decision process will be for the male entrant for Nebelhorn. I think both should make top 6 (based on those countries who still need to qualify)

I love Caluza but Martinez needs to go. 5th at Junior Worlds, big momentum behind him, judges seem to love him and he has a 3axel that's consistent.