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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    I imagine there is a significant difference between the income of parents in the US/Canada/Western Europe and those of someone from the Philippines. Which means that the same expenses would represent a much heavier financial burden for someone like Mrs. Martinez.
    That is a very big and IMO, unwarranted assumption. Don't forget the general tax burden and cost of living burden is much higher in the west vs the Philippines, so income has to be taken relative to the expense context as well.

  2. #202
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    Income and expense may be lower but if Martinez trains abroad like Canada and US then it is a lower level of income supporting a very expensive place to live. It is a double whammy

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    Quote Originally Posted by jiejie View Post
    That is a very big and IMO, unwarranted assumption. Don't forget the general tax burden and cost of living burden is much higher in the west vs the Philippines, so income has to be taken relative to the expense context as well.
    Cost of living may be low in the ester world, but the exchange rate of currency into Dollar make even decent of income in developing world below the poverty line in developed world. In this case expense incurred is very likely scary high for a family from Philippines

  4. #204
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    I knew quite a few foreign students in the US and in each case they were from countries with lower income levels and their parents had to support these students living in the states with the highest costs of living. It is tough

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    Quote Originally Posted by jiejie View Post
    That is a very big and IMO, unwarranted assumption. Don't forget the general tax burden and cost of living burden is much higher in the west vs the Philippines, so income has to be taken relative to the expense context as well.
    That's my point: since Michael trains at least part time in the US and competes abroad several times a year, Mrs. Martinez has to take on the financial burden of living and travelling in more expensive countries without the commensurate income. Which, as I noted, makes things more difficult for the Martinez family, and might have ended Michael's career were she less dedicated to his success.

  6. #206
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    But that's not my point. My point is that there are plenty of struggling skater families in the USA with situations that are NO BETTER OFF than the Martinez family, are forever scraping enough money to continue, and aren't getting any sponsorship or breaks on training expenses, even if they don't share his particular expense breakdown pattern on the travel. Martinez, as a big fish in a little pond, still has a better shot at finding outside money than all the little USA fish skating more or less anonymously in the big pond, simply because it's harder to get noticed as a USA skater until at a fairly high level of success.

  7. #207
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    I am sure all families of skaters have to econoomize to some degree, but I am mot sure how we can be sure many American parents are no better off unless we know the Martinez financial situation as compared to an average American skating family.

    Also I am not sure about the big fish comment--a skater like Martinez, with his 3A, is likely to be able to do jgp this year even if he is skating for the US, simply because there isnt a deep pool of jr men in the states. Now if Martinez is a female skater then maybe that can be a big fish situation

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiejie View Post
    But that's not my point. My point is that there are plenty of struggling skater families in the USA with situations that are NO BETTER OFF than the Martinez family, are forever scraping enough money to continue, and aren't getting any sponsorship or breaks on training expenses, even if they don't share his particular expense breakdown pattern on the travel. Martinez, as a big fish in a little pond, still has a better shot at finding outside money than all the little USA fish skating more or less anonymously in the big pond, simply because it's harder to get noticed as a USA skater until at a fairly high level of success.
    Unless you have access to the Martinez family's bank account, you can't know that they are better off than a struggling skating family in the US.

    What we do know is that in the Philippines the cost of living and wages are lower than the US. Significantly so, in fact. I don't understand how you can't see how that wouldn't have a huge impact on a Filippino skater training in the US.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    Unless you have access to the Martinez family's bank account, you can't know that they are better off than a struggling skating family in the US.

    What we do know is that in the Philippines the cost of living and wages are lower than the US. Significantly so, in fact. I don't understand how you can't see how that wouldn't have a huge impact on a Filippino skater training in the US.
    Having lived in the USA and SE Asia, I am well aware of things like income levels, cost of living differences, currency rates, etc. I also know that nearly all SE Asian skaters who take up figure skating are not representative of the average of the general population, but tend to come from more well-off backgrounds, relatively speaking. And while I don't have access to the Martinez family accounts, neither do you or anyone else on this thread. So if I'm guilty of speculating, you are equally so, just in the opposite direction.

  10. #210
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    The point is not whether the Martinez family are wealthy or not by Filippino standards. The point is that it is much more expensive to train in the US whatever socio-economic background they have in the Philippines.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  11. #211
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    And my point is that they should now be able to access more money in the Phils from third parties, since he's the pre-eminent home-grown skater and getting good intl results. Which tends to make up for a lot of whatever financial shortcomings his family feels they have. And regardless of where he trains and competes. Phils companies are no different from those anywhere else, in that they want to get behind a winner. Hopefully Mrs. Martinez is being as proactive about marketing opportunities as she is about posting rants on social media.

  12. #212
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    If Martinez had skated for the US he would still have been eligible for team C funding at the least. Plus some parts of his competition expenses. He might have gotten some local community support too ala Todd E before he got famous. It is not as if he would have been a complete nobody in the US. At the same time, he has yet to warrant huge funding in his home country, and the sport is not popular enough for the federation to be well funded yet. So being a breakthrough skater in a small, poor fed has disadvantages.

    Also, while we dunno his financial situatiin, it can come off all forms of wrong if we assume they are just like US skating families financially while they are far from it, esp given the living standard differences. Anyway, it is better to not give generalization as to who is no better off than who as a group or how skating families are in SE Asians as a group. That is a v broad generalization
    Last edited by jlai; 11-28-2013 at 11:40 PM.

  13. #213

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    No surprise, but Bulanhagui's out for the season (and probably done unless she tried again for the US which seems unlikely):
    https://twitter.com/melbulanhagui/st...67012404076544

    Wish this thread hadn't developed so much since my last post.

  14. #214
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    I have to say I don't have much sympathy.

  15. #215
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    Interesting that Michael Christian Martinez elected to skate at Skate Helena in Belgrade over the weekend (he was the only senior competitor) rather than Four Continents. I figure logistics between 4CC and Olympics factored in the decision (potential travel costs of having to go to Taipei then to Sochi). Meanwhile, Chris Caluza finished 12th at Four Continents.

  16. #216

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerek View Post
    Interesting that Michael Christian Martinez elected to skate at Skate Helena in Belgrade over the weekend (he was the only senior competitor) rather than Four Continents. I figure logistics between 4CC and Olympics factored in the decision (potential travel costs of having to go to Taipei then to Sochi). Meanwhile, Chris Caluza finished 12th at Four Continents.
    He's been training in Russia in preparation for the Olympics. Presumably he/his coaching team/the federation figured that a relatively nearby competition would be a better idea than a trip to 4CC.

  17. #217
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    I saw this on his Facebook fanpage:

    "We could not get a Visa to Taipei. We did not receive the invitation ,so we could not process the visa"

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcuel View Post
    I saw this on his Facebook fanpage:

    "We could not get a Visa to Taipei. We did not receive the invitation ,so we could not process the visa"
    This doesn't quite make sense. Martinez presumably holds a Philippine passport and as he trains part of the year in the USA, also a visa for the USA. As such, he would be entitled to 30 days visa exempted in Taiwan unless competing in an athletic contest (possibly for money prize) puts him in a different category that voids this allowance. That said, I find it hard to believe that the Taiwan organizers did not send Martinez the letter of invitation for this competition since he was on the official ISU roster by the entry deadline. I'm wondering if the LOI went to the Philippines directly to his Federation, and either the ball was dropped there or the time frame to get it to Martinez in Russia just wasn't long enough to deal with getting to the ROC mission in Moscow to get a formal visa processed. Moreover, if Martinez knew he was going to need a visa for Taiwan and knew that he would be in Russia for a spell to train...why wouldn't he or coach have made advance arrangements to deal with this? Hmm.... I'm tempted to conclude that Zemgirl's explanation is the real one, and that recently he/coach/Fed decided that the potential downsides of disrupting training + the travel required to compete at 4CC then back to Sochi, outweighed any potential benefits.

  19. #219

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    Or maybe the written invitation got lost in the mail.

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