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  1. #1
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    ISU Comm. 1790: 2013/14 Singles & Pairs Updated Levels of Difficulty & GOE Guidelines

    ISU Communication No. 1790 (replaces Communication No. 1724) - SINGLE & PAIR SKATING: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=4455

    I. Scale of Values (no changes from those published in Comm. No. 1724)
    II. Updated Levels of Difficulty of Single/Pair Elements (season 2013/14)
    III. Updated Guidelines for marking +GOE of Single/Pair Elements (positive aspects)
    IV. Updated Guidelines in establishing GOE for errors in Short Program and Free Skating
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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    Argh very little changes to spin levels. Ashley Wagner is doomed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Argh very little changes to spin levels. Ashley Wagner is doomed.
    Why?
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

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    Very few changes. I'm disappointed. There's definitely room for improvement.

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    I'm also pretty disheartened at the lack of changes, but it is what it is. I didn't expect any major relevations in an Olympic year. They'll come after the fact, after someone "wuzrobbed".

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    So the restriction on steps and turns only being able to be counted twice, are steps and turns only viewed as "the same" if they are in the same direction on the same foot?

    The rule about difficult combinations of turns seems to indicate that is the case.

    Also - if you are executing a hop/jump from one foot to the other foot in the middle of the spin, which foot counts this as the difficult transition? The landing foot?

    A little bummed to see they still don't allow for backwards entrances on forward spins such as a Charlotte into a forward upright spin. Do they just not view these as difficult enough?
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

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    So teh difference in points between a 1 Lutz and 1 axel is 0.5, 2 Lutz and 2 Axel is 1.2 points, 3 Lutz and 3 Axel is 2.5 points, however the different in points between 4 Lutz and 4 Axel is 1.4 points. So ISU things the relative difficulty in doing 4 Lutz and 4axel is easier than 3 Lutz and 3 axel... I really would love to know how this came about. Anyway no one will even dare to try 4 axel anytime soon, so is a muted point, still even then it looks like a mistake.

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    They didn't even correct the fact that you get more points for a -2 or -3 GOE on a level 2 step sequence than level 3. (I tried to contact them about it a few months ago but I couldn't tell if the email went through from the form on the website, because I got some kind of error message).

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    Quote Originally Posted by N_Halifax View Post
    They'll come after the fact, after someone "wuzrobbed".
    Interesting (but thank feck!) that no changes happened as a result of the Chan/Ten drama. No harsher penalties for falls or step outs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Interesting (but thank feck!) that no changes happened as a result of the Chan/Ten drama. No harsher penalties for falls or step outs.
    You mean the petition didn't work?

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    what would u recommend they do, give -2 for falls ?? You also cant forget that judges are supposed to deduct from the positives in the jumps.

    We all know that they cant make serious changes so close to olympics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    what would u recommend they do, give -2 for falls ??
    I would recommend leaving the fall penalties as they are. I'd slightly reduce the value of quads, though. I think they overcooked it. This definitely won't be done though, given everybody seems to be enjoying 'the golden age of the quad.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I'd slightly reduce the value of quads, .'
    I absolutely disagree with this. The reason they increased the value of quads was so that more male skaters would be encouraged to try them. It was clear that at the 2010 olympics there was a significant decline of landed quads compared to the olympics 8 years before.

    In terms of jumps, the only changes i would make would be to increase the value for 3Lz to try and encourage more ladies to attempt lutz in short programs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I would recommend leaving the fall penalties as they are. I'd slightly reduce the value of quads, though. I think they overcooked it. This definitely won't be done though, given everybody seems to be enjoying 'the golden age of the quad.'
    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    I absolutely disagree with this. The reason they increased the value of quads was so that more male skaters would be encouraged to try them. It was clear that at the 2010 olympics there was a significant decline of landed quads compared to the olympics 8 years before.
    I agree with the latter viewpoint. The lower base value and harsher penalties for mistakes (remember that negative GOEs were worth more than positive GOEs for quads) resulted in a noticeable decrease in the number of quads attempted, and the ISU was correct to address this. That said, I would like to see the value of the GOE units increased - back to 1 for triples, and 1.3-1.5 for quads. That way, good jumps will be properly rewarded and bad ones will receive a greater penalty. Though this is would work better if the judging panels stop handing out GOEs like candy to top skaters and judge the elements based on quality rather than reputation.

    I'd imagine that if any major changes are in store, they will wait until after the Olympic season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFOS View Post
    They didn't even correct the fact that you get more points for a -2 or -3 GOE on a level 2 step sequence than level 3. (I tried to contact them about it a few months ago but I couldn't tell if the email went through from the form on the website, because I got some kind of error message).
    Interesting. You'd think a lot of people would have noticed this, and made it an issue?

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    On that note, announcing 2014 Olympic Champion Patrick Chan...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    That said, I would like to see the value of the GOE units increased - back to 1 for triples, and 1.3-1.5 for quads. That way, good jumps will be properly rewarded and bad ones will receive a greater penalty.
    I agree. It's great that quads are now highly valued enough that they can distance men (or a woman) who can do them from the rest of the pack, but at the same time the increased base value relative to the negative GOE leaves too much of a cushion for failed attempts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    I absolutely disagree with this. The reason they increased the value of quads was so that more male skaters would be encouraged to try them.
    And thanks to this change a failed quad is now worth more than most clean triples. Please.

    Also: Kevin Reynolds.

  18. #18

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    Thanks for posting.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    In terms of jumps, the only changes i would make would be to increase the value for 3Lz to try and encourage more ladies to attempt lutz in short programs.
    Personally agree...
    Even there was no one who tried to 3lutz in ladies SP, 2012 Grand prix final.
    And 3Lo is became a favorite jump, 5 of 6 skaters landed 3lo.

    I also hope that gap between the value of 3Lo and 3F would be larger than now, gap between 3Lo and 3T would be decrease a little...
    Last edited by karlon; 04-30-2013 at 04:57 AM.

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    I agree with Ziggy. The quads have too high BV so if you land two of them, how you land the rest of your jumping passes do not really matter these days. I don't like the mens discipline has become "who lands many more quads over his SP and FS."

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