Skaters and Doping

[Skittl1321]

A recent example of a visit:

Tweet by Mervin Tran

What is even more sad about that is I don't think Mervin is actually Team Japan anymore At least, I'd assume he is trying to get released.


Here is a tweet from Ross Miner. Doesn't sound like these visits are quick...

Ross Miner‏@rossminer

Congrats to @simonshnapir on a new personal best time for an out of competition drug test! Less than one hour :-p

Here is an article from a track athlete about doping control. It sounds like they get tested out of competition VERY frequently. Three missed tests equal a positive test- so they have to be diligent about alerting the agency to any schedule changes.
http://espn.go.com/espnw/athletes-li...ng-track-field

[julieann]

What is even more sad about that is I don't think Mervin is actually Team Japan anymore At least, I'd assume he is trying to get released.

If he's not with team Japan who is he with? Is it official that he's done with Japan and skates for Canada? Doping control doesn't know (and shouldn't care) what team he may be with now. They just want his sample; I'm sure they could care less about what country he skates for; he's an eligible skater who still needs to be in compliance, that's their one and only job.

[Skittl1321]

If he's not with team Japan who is he with? Is it official that he's done with Japan and skates for Canada? Doping control doesn't know (and shouldn't care) what team he may be with now. They just want his sample; I'm sure they could care less about what country he skates for; he's an eligible skater who still needs to be in compliance, that's their one and only job.

Doping control definetly cares what team they are on- USADA does the out of competition for US athletes, for example. They have no jurisdiction over non-US athletes (by my understanding), maybe the countries contract with each other for overseas athletes through WADA? JADA is in charge of Japan's doping control.

Yes, he is still with Japan, as they would need to release him, but since he is now non-active (until he finds a partner, and I assume that since he won't be able to get citizenship, it is unlikely he'll want another Japanese one) a 7 a.m. wake up call adds a bit of insult to injury.

[julieann]

Doping control definetly cares what team they are on- USADA does the out of competition for US athletes, for example. They have no jurisdiction over non-US athletes (by my understanding), maybe the countries contract with each other for overseas athletes? JADA is in charge of Japan's doping control.

Yes, he is still with Japan, as they would need to release him, but since he is now non-active (until he finds a partner, and I assume that since he won't be able to get citizenship, it is unlikely he'll want another Japanese one) a 7 a.m. wake up call adds a bit of insult to injury.

Since Tran is still an eligible skater (not officially retired) and although he now has a new skating partner from Canada, he still skates for Japan until they release him (which I haven't heard they've done yet.) So doping for him is still in effect for the country he represents...Japan.

Some people seem to think the testers care if he skates for Japan or Canada, they don't. They get the doping request and go out and do it.

7:00 AM, 12:00 PM, 9:00 PM, no one likes it anytime but it's a necessary evil in sports. You can let them know you have pressing personal business like you are getting married or a have a funeral and they usually honor that request; although they don't have to.

[Prancer]

There were some other issues with it... it was late at night, the agent's accreditation was expired and they brought along a boyfriend. I remember thinking at the time I could understand how she would be like, this is sketchy, I'm retiring anyway, and I don't feel comfortable giving the sample under these circumstances.... but apparently she did try...

This blog has some discussion about it: http://mizprker.blogspot.com/

Argh! I cannot believe that these stories are still circulating.

The agent's credentials were NOT expired; she didn't have a new sticker yet because WADA hadn't sent it to her. Kyoko did not notice this at the time, anyway.

The agent showed up when she did because when she notified Kyoko that a drug test was due, Kyoko sent her a fax saying she was going out to dinner and would be home around 10. The drug test was supposed to be done that day (which was stated in the request), so the woman showed up then to do it.

Kyoko refused to give a sample because she didn't think she had to, as she was planning to retire. The man who accompanied the agent (not her boyfriend, but someone who was there so the agent wouldn't be alone at night) advised Kyoko to call a lawyer before she signed the paper refusing to give the sample, which she also declined.

All of this came out at the hearing, Kyoko was sanctioned, and then she issued her statement about being confused about whether she had to give a sample.

[Cant Skate]

"Since Tran is still an eligible skater (not officially retired) and although he now has a new skating partner from Canada,"

Has that been officially announced? I know he's had try outs but didn't know a choice had been made....

[Sylvia]

"Since Tran is still an eligible skater (not officially retired) and although he now has a new skating partner from Canada,"

Has that been officially announced? I know he's had try outs but didn't know a choice had been made....

Nothing has been officially announced AFAIK. This is the only (hearsay) info that's been posted that I know of: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=1#post3853458

[julieann]

Argh! I cannot believe that these stories are still circulating.

The agent's credentials were NOT expired; she didn't have a new sticker yet because WADA hadn't sent it to her. Kyoko did not notice this at the time, anyway.

The agent showed up when she did because when she notified Kyoko that a drug test was due, Kyoko sent her a fax saying she was going out to dinner and would be home around 10. The drug test was supposed to be done that day (which was stated in the request), so the woman showed up then to do it.

Kyoko refused to give a sample because she didn't think she had to, as she was planning to retire. The man who accompanied the agent (not her boyfriend, but someone who was there so the agent wouldn't be alone at night) advised Kyoko to call a lawyer before she signed the paper refusing to give the sample, which she also declined.

All of this came out at the hearing, Kyoko was sanctioned, and then she issued her statement about being confused about whether she had to give a sample.

Thank you, that clears up a lot.

"Since Tran is still an eligible skater (not officially retired) and although he now has a new skating partner from Canada,"

Has that been officially announced? I know he's had try outs but didn't know a choice had been made....

If he doesn't get a partner who is already Canadian he will run into the same citizenship issues as he did with Narumi and even the 2018 Olympics may be out of the question. No matter who he tries out with, she needs to be Canadian; but at any rate he still represents Japan.

[smileyskate]

Princess Leppard wrote: I think some of you may not realize that you are observed as you pee. You can't just go into a bathroom like you do in the doctors office.


I wondered about that. Maybe Kyoko was tired of that, plus trying to go when someone shows up late and while an unknown dude is standing nearby, or anywhere in your home ,while nobody is there to oversee what he's doing, would be tough.

[judiz]

So do the skaters have to let them know

if they will be away from home for more than one day, do they have to submit their training schedules so the agents know when they are at the rink?

[Prancer]

I wondered about that. Maybe Kyoko was tired of that, plus trying to go when someone shows up late and while an unknown dude is standing nearby, or anywhere in your home ,while nobody is there to oversee what he's doing, would be tough.

Or maybe Kyoko refused because she was planning to retire and didn't think she had to, exactly as she said.

So do the skaters have to let them know

If they will be away from home for more than one day, do they have to submit their training schedules so the agents know when they are at the rink?

There is no requirement that they be at the rink except after competitions; the agents contact the athletes and the athletes tell the agents when and where they will be available for testing. When Kyoko sent the fax to the agent, the agent took it as Kyoko scheduling an appointment, as that is what the athletes are supposed to do.

If they are away from home and their names come up, a local agent is sent out to do the test.

[Sylvia]

Mervin Tran is included in this ISU Figure Skating Registered Testing Pool 2012/13 document (scroll down) which is why he was eligible to be tested out of competition when someone knocked on his door in the early morning hours in January 2013:
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/...-0-file,00.pdf

More information can be found on USFS' site: http://www.usfsa.org/shell.asp?sid=40786

Out-of-competition (OOC) testing is directed at prohibited substances that would benefit athletes during training or have long-term affects (ex. steroids, diuretics, blood doping). USADA and the ISU each have an their own RTP [No Advance Notice, Registered Testing Pool] or and have similar but slightly different criteria for naming skaters to them:

USADA RTP: Team A and B envelope athletes; any athlete selected to compete at the World or World Junior championships; any athlete receiving benefits from the USOC (Team A and B). (Eligibility criteria as of 2/12/2008)

ISU RTP: According to ISU Article C.3, 'Skaters ranked in the top 10 of the previous season's World Figure Skating Championships and junior skaters ranked in the top five of the previous season's World Junior Figure Skating Championships of each discipline of figure skating (singles, pairs and dance) shall be included in the ISU Registered Testing Pool. Additional skaters may be added by the ISU based on testing results and performance. Any skater who progresses into the top 10 of the above lists during the season will automatically be included in the ISU Registered Testing Pool. A skater who drops out of the above lists will only be excluded at the end of the season (April 30) or following official announcement of retirement to the ISU by his/her member. Addition, any skater who is not ranked in the top 10 of his or her specific discipline and may be entered for a major event (Worlds, Olympics) may also be included in the ISU Registered Testing Pool'. (Eligibility criteria as of 2/12/2008)

[Skittl1321]

So do the skaters have to let them know

if they will be away from home for more than one day, do they have to submit their training schedules so the agents know when they are at the rink?

Read the article I posted from the track athlete. It does sound like they are responsible for letting the agency know a pretty detailed schedule.

[TheIronLady]

If she just didn't feel like giving a sample, that sounds pretty haughty or arrogant at best. How was that not going to get her the trouble she ended up getting?

[Aussie Willy]

If she just didn't feel like giving a sample, that sounds pretty haughty or arrogant at best. How was that not going to get her the trouble she ended up getting?

I don't think that was mentioned that she didn't feel like giving a sample. But you really should stop putting assumptions on things that you cannot verify or confirm.

[danceronice]

Was Ina afraid this woman was a pervert trying to get her urine? I understand this is inconvenient, but aren't these the norms of random testing? And why again was she unable to provide a sample?

Have you given a lot of urine samples? It took me about fifteen minutes to pee in the stupid cup having KNOWN I was taking a drug test today, drank water, and having been alone in the bathroom without someone watching me try to do it. If someone showed up at my house in the middle of the night and demanded I produce a sample on the spot they'd better hope I'd just had a lot of water and not just used the toilet because if so, they'd be waiting a very, very long time.

(Mine was an employment test, not a USADA test, obviously, but still, it's a lot of pressure when they tell you to go on command.)

[dawnie]

I think some of you may not realize that you are observed as you pee. You can't just go into a bathroom like you do in the doctors office.

I've actually been curious about this since I saw the Anti-Doping video with Rachael Flatt. I know the representative goes in the bathroom/stall with you but are they actually watching you pee? Or they just stand there and not watch you but listen for the sound?

[TheIronLady]

Now I wish I hadn't started this thread.

It's clear that the testing regime would make it necessary to mask or conceal any use carefully.

So do we think any skaters could benefit androgenic steroids? Enough to make it worth the risk of being suspended? It seems unlikely to me. Now diuretics seem more worth the risk for a skater, especially one who is older and trying to control her weight.

[PrincessLeppard]

I've actually been curious about this since I saw the Anti-Doping video with Rachael Flatt. I know the representative goes in the bathroom/stall with you but are they actually watching you pee? Or they just stand there and not watch you but listen for the sound?

I've been drug tested at jobs twice. Yes, they watch you pee, because they have to make sure you aren't substituting fake pee.

It is truly a worthy event.

[Aussie Willy]

It's clear that the testing regime would make it necessary to mask or conceal any use carefully.

Are you advocating drug use as long as it can be covered up?