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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Are you advocating drug use as long as it can be covered up?
    No, but I think lots of people take medications to improve their quality of lives. Some people take prescription diet pills. I do not judge what people deem to be appropriate for their own bodies if a doctor is supervising it. Now in the case of sport, I think it's important to discourage and punish chemical enhancements because it will be taken to extremes otherwise. Realistically, though, the questions I'm asking are important if you want to know what athletes may actually be doing.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessLeppard View Post
    I've been drug tested at jobs twice. Yes, they watch you pee, because they have to make sure you aren't substituting fake pee.

    It is truly a worthy event.
    There is the assigned "pee nark" in the military as well (an assigned extra duty [hehe, duty] that you get randomly chosen for), and yes you do have to be looking during the event, to make sure that there is no substitution going on.

    Although to do a urine drug screen, it only requires 10ml of urine (although they generally ask to fill the cup up to a certain line, like halfway). Unless you've been in the desert for a week, haven't drunk anything all day and just peed, you should be able to squeeze out enough for a UDS.
    I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.~W. C. Fields

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltzNo1 View Post
    These are indeed "random accusations without specific evidence"!
    exactly.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by judiz View Post
    So do the skaters have to let them know

    if they will be away from home for more than one day, do they have to submit their training schedules so the agents know when they are at the rink?
    Quote Originally Posted by dawnie View Post
    I've actually been curious about this since I saw the Anti-Doping video with Rachael Flatt. I know the representative goes in the bathroom/stall with you but are they actually watching you pee? Or they just stand there and not watch you but listen for the sound?
    No, they watch.

    The procedures may have changed, but last I knew: the athlete pulls up their shirt; it has to be folded or tucked so it stays up with the very bottom of the shirt essentially covering the breast area and no more. Pants/underwear are dropped to the floor and the athlete needs to put their arms in the air and do a full 365 degree turn in front of the tester to show that there are no "false urine" devices present on the athlete. The athlete breaks the seal on the specimen container and then - well, hopefully then, maybe later, ohdearskategodswhycan'tIpeealready - urinates into the container. The athlete then divides the sample into two jars (the "A" and "B" samples) and verifies that the jars are correctly labelled with the athlete's identifying code/information. Then the athlete places the two jars into a container of some sort which is sealed in the presence of both the athlete and the tester. And then there's some paperwork. Athletes under the age of 18 may have a chaperone present; technically, the chaperone is supposed to be positioned so he/she can see the tester while the athlete is peeing but not be able to see the athlete urinating. A sledge hockey player told me that athletes who use catheters can provide their own catheter but it has to be factory-sealed and shown to the tester prior to being opened. I don't know how testing works for athletes who require assistance to use a catheter or are unable to hold the specimen container while urinating.

    During in-competition testing, the drug-testing bathroom and waiting areas must be isolated, so at U.S. Nationals it's a curtained-off area with some seriously crazy security - those USADA folks are serious. And if you inadvertently wander towards drug testing... Out of competition, the testing area needs to be "secure." The testing protocols have actually become much more reasonable over the years. Although athletes are supposed to notify USADA where they will be at all times, there's a one-hour window each day where you MUST be available at a specific address for testing, and athletes can update the location online with a certain amount of notice. Most athletes seem to pick early morning at their home - sure, you get woken up a few times a year at 5AM, but at least you know where you'll be (well, as long as you're sleeping in your own bed ). Testing can occur at any time, but figure skating is low on the priority list for out-of-competition testing.

    The out-of-competition rules for drug use have become more reasonable over time; I remember when most or all birth control pills were on the banned list, for example, and they increasingly allow OTC medications to be used outside of competition. The window to notify USADA for "emergency" medication has become slightly longer; they used to pick random fights (years ago, I remember someone with pneumonia having her Therapeutic Use Exemption petition for five out-of-competition days of oral steroids being turned down) and I haven't heard crazy stuff like that in the past decade. As more information has emerged about the systemic and sophisticated doping in other sports, USADA/WADA seemed to decide that pseudoephedrine was a battle with zero consequence in comparison to what's really out there.

    How much doping is there in skating? More than we think, I suspect. I'm not saying that from any , but simply because there's so much doping in other sports: how can there not be doping somewhere, on some level? I will say that I think there's less doping in skating than there used to be, especially since the Eastern Bloc money/motivation/captive athletes that drove the doping is gone. Testing has gotten so much better that the risks of doping have gone up significantly.

  5. #65

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    Thanks for this fascinating explanation of how USADA/WADA works in the practical world.

    Why are (or were) catabolic steroids (corticosteroids)--which do not help build but break down muscle mass--on the banned substances list? Do they interfere with results for other substances? I recall Terry Gannon claimed that Slutskaya had to get permission to take prednisone.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Thanks for this fascinating explanation of how USADA/WADA works in the practical world.

    Why are (or were) catabolic steroids (corticosteroids)--which do not help build but break down muscle mass--on the banned substances list? Do they interfere with results for other substances? I recall Terry Gannon claimed that Slutskaya had to get permission to take prednisone.
    Many medications prescribed or otherwise mask other things which is why Yuri Larionov was banned. They can petition WADA and will grant them special permission if they need to take prohibited substances to get back to normal-like if they had surgery and need painkillers or steroids. But they must ask first, if it's an emergency surgery WADA needs to know as soon as possible. Even if it's prescribed by a doctor, the athlete is ultimately responsible for what goes in their body and it has bit some of them in the butt unfortunately for relying on what a doctor said instead of checking themselves.

  7. #67
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    I've never had anyone watch an employment drug test (thank God, or I'd be BEGGING for a catheter or a blood draw--I wish they'd do blood, it would be so much easier) but you have to take off any bulky clothes, can't carry your purse or any other item that could be hiding a fake sample, the bathrooms usually don't have a sink (ie drain), no trash can, you can't flush until they check (the one I just did, they blocked the handle) and they wait at the door.

    I would guess they need a waiver for prednisone because it might show up as a false positive-it's not helpful, but it might interfere with the results, so they need to know you're taking it. Though I just skated on a week of it for allergies, and it's miserable.

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