Yeah, athletes are a different breed.
Delete. Wrong Thread.
I don't know if you noticed, but both Shibutanis and V+M were getting into hold for the lift and then stopped, so one may argue that they actually 'repeated' the lift. I know that they didn't actually perform the lift but they were already starting the element, they did not stop just when standing upright doing transitions. (In fact, the first attempt of the lift from Shibutanis were a different hold that the successful attempt).
You also say that you haven't read a single interview where other skaters at these three competitions complained about what happened and said the rules have to change. Well, there was an interview by some Russian (don't remember who exactly it was, possibly Shabalin?) He was commenting on the stop Shibutanis made and questioning why they were allowed to repeat the lift. So not all skaters (or ex skaters) believe the rules are fair.
In a designated official practice before the competition, the couples skate all of their elements so that the technical panel can take notes and the judges can know what to expect. So the panel cannot ignore that a lift was missed. Actually they can and they have, but it wouldn't serve fairness at a close competition.
IMO it is best for such rules to reflect what would be considered fair by skaters, coaches and the knowledgeable public. After all, the aim of all these judging rules is fairness. I believe anyone would understand that if a skater misses an element because he feels a cramp coming, he cannot be given a second chance - it's the same in all sports. Otherwise it would not be fair to the significant number of athletes who compete with minor of major injuries or illness and perform their elements through pain. What's going on in an athlete's body at a particular moment is very difficult to assess and quantify.I also don't think a distinction should be made regarding equipment/costume vs injury. It is the athlete's bad luck either way and they need to accept responsibility for it regardless.
OTOH, if a skater's boot laces are undone, most people would find it shocking not to give him a chance to tie them and continue from where he stopped. There is no disputing the fact that he could not have continued with his laces undone.
Lol I love the way you express yourself, Sasha'sSpins. And I too would honestly be on the ground crying with you.
Seriously though these athletes are on another level, and they'd have to be, considering their elite status, they've earned it and truly paid wilth blood, sweat, tears (btw does Yuko Kavaguti ever cry??? she's like a bionic woman! even Eldredge lay prone on the ice gritting his teeth when he popped his shoulder back in place).
Re comparing one sport to another, Some of rules for another sport might work quite well for skating too and vice-versa.
Someone above said that at the designated official practice, skaters skate through all their elements for the benefit of the tech caller and the judges. Is that really true? Seems I recall cases where a skater did not even appear at their designated official practice.
I thought the judges etc were provide in writing what the skater planned, but he is not penalized per se if he changes his program.
Last edited by Iceman; 03-04-2013 at 02:16 PM.
They didn't attempt the jump (or in dance's case the lift) but they did enough of the preperation for it, that judges knew what they were going for and it counts as an attempt.
While I again think they shouldn't be allowed to stop, I do think they stopped due to actual muscle spasms and not a program error hoping for a retry.
Stopping a program should incur a 1.0 penalty across the board, with the narrow exception of things completely out of the skater's control, such as power outages, fire alarms, streakers, etc. Singles and pair skaters should lose the second half bonus on any skills performed after a break. The program should be re-started at the point the music was stopped. Spend 30 seconds wandering aimlessly around the ice before consulting the referee? You just lost any elements in that portion of the program. Go talk to your coach before going to the referee? You just lost that portion of your program. Hear the referee's whistle because your boot strap came undone? The music should be stopped immediately upon the referee blowing the whistle, and hence, this skater gets to skate his/her entire program in two pieces. But if the skater initiates the stop, the the amount of time it takes to get to the referee is time the skater shouldn't get back. He can use the three minutes to decide is the remaining portion of the program needs to be changed/rearranged. The judges should lower the PCS marks accordingly, depending on how much of the program was not performed (but even if they don't, these other rule changes would ensure that there is a penalty for stopping a program).
And, if they had done so, there whould have been a BIG penalty in their marks naturally and I doubt this discussion would be happening. It's the fact that they got to do all their planned elements that made it seem like there was no penalty that then caused people to be up in arms.
You do turn in your list of planned elements but you are allowed to skate a program that does not match those elements with no penalty as you pointed out. The list is just to make life easier as most of the time most skaters skate most of what they planned and even if they change things up they still do some sort of element in the place they said they'd do something. (So maybe they'll do 2X instead of 3F but they still do a jump.)
Last edited by MacMadame; 03-04-2013 at 05:34 PM.
Delete. Wrong Thread.
With the current rules, however, Mao should be advised by her coaches that she should skate to the referee because she has a pain her her leg and stomach (the fall definitely looked painful, there is no doubt about that!!!), she would get a break, refreshment and second attempt of the triple axel because she hasn't actually performed the element so the first attempt does not count. (Pity the fall would count though. Any advice on how to delete the fall? Or will she have to do with refreshment, break and second attempt on the element?)
Last edited by hanca; 03-04-2013 at 05:47 PM.