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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    I think a break, at the very least, should obviate any back-half bonuses.
    That is a persuasive idea, but harsh.
    Last edited by TheIronLady; 03-08-2013 at 10:47 PM.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by luenatic View Post
    In general I agree with you with the exception of equipment and costume failure. If the skater's equipment and costume caused the problem, the skater needs to take the responsibility for the failure.
    I agree these are the skater's responsibility, along with injury and misjudging a dangerous ice condition (ex: the skater thinks s/he see's sequins or beads on the ice, but it's actually ice slush, that's the skater's responsibility).
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  3. #303

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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    I think a break, at the very least, should obviate any back-half bonuses.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    That is a persuasive idea, but harsh.
    I don't think it's harsh not to give a bonus intended to reward difficult elements after X minutes of continuous skating if the skater has stopped and restarted. I think it makes most sense to restart the bonus clock at the same time as restarting the program.

    So if the skater stops before the halfway point, the bonus time could still kick in toward the end of the restarted section.

    And if the skater stops after the halfway point, any bonuses awarded for elements after the halfway point and before the interruption would still apply.

  4. #304

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    I don't think it's harsh not to give a bonus intended to reward difficult elements after X minutes of continuous skating if the skater has stopped and restarted. I think it makes most sense to restart the bonus clock at the same time as restarting the program.

    So if the skater stops before the halfway point, the bonus time could still kick in toward the end of the restarted section.

    And if the skater stops after the halfway point, any bonuses awarded for elements after the halfway point and before the interruption would still apply.
    I have to disagree here. The reason skaters get the bonus is by that time they are tired and it takes extra effort and solid conditioning to do those difficult elements late in the program. If a skater has had rest for even a minute, due to whatever reason, that tiredness has to be less than continuous skating.

  5. #305

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    I think we agree here. Maybe I'm not expressing myself clearly enough.

    Let's say we're talking about a 4-minute senior ladies freeskate. The bonus period starts at 2:00.

    If the skater stops at 3 minutes in, then she gets the bonus for every jump she did between 2:01 and 3:00 before stopping, but no bonus for any jump in the last minute that was skated after the break.

    If the skater stops at 1:00, gets a break, and then resumes and skates for 3 minutes, then she should get the bonus for jumps that take place more than 2 minutes after she resumes (what would have been the 3:00 point in the program if she hadn't stopped becomes the 2:00 point in the post-break section).

    If she stops exactly 2 minutes into the program, then she would not get a bonus period either before or after the break.

  6. #306

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    That would probably work, as long as the rules are clearly defined.

  7. #307
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    That's a very fair solution.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    ^^^^
    Speaking of which, did you notice that the votes on a music violation now show up on the protocols?
    However, if a judge did not vote for the deduction, nothing at all shows in that column.
    It does not appear that that line is shown unless a majority of judges has voted for a deduction, and the deduction is indeed given.

    DORIS, you highlight an important part of the rules and judging that is such a sham in my opinion.

    IN ORDER FOR A MUSIC DEDUCTION TO APPEAR IN THE PROTOCOLS, A MINIMUM OF 6 OF THE 9 JUDGES MUST HAVE VOTED FOR THE DEDUCTION, OTHERWISE IT DOES NOT APPEAR ON THE PROTOCOLS AT ALL.

    I think it should be indicated regardless of the number of judges voting for the violation. The level of attention, insight and knowledge of the RULES and whether they have been violated is so variable. Yet we have seen so many programs where it is clear that rules, especially in Ice Dance, are being violated without consequence. Even judges on a panel at the judges' round tables which conclude every competition, may not become aware that as many as 5 of the judges had voted for the violation, as it does not appear on the protocols, if the referee (who conducts the round tables) chooses to ignore the subject (at their discretion).

  9. #309
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    The ISU wisely does not air its ambiguous laundry. Unless there is something to explain, it doesn't volunteer information. It is not a sham, but it is not transparent enough to the public. That is unfortunate but somewhat prudent. If President Putin would stop weighing in on judging decisions, maybe the ISU would not fear having an open judging system so much! I would fear the wrath a Russian KGB-trained dictator. Speaking seriously, I think more transparency should be on the ISU's agenda. Anonymous judging should be gradually phased out.
    Last edited by TheIronLady; 03-10-2013 at 09:39 AM.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaiKozOda View Post
    Rubleva & Shefer... She had a problem with her dress during a program at the Euros a few years ago and they didn't stop. The video is quite a hit on youtube.
    Is there an IJS deduction for accidental breast overexposure?

  11. #311
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    My post was related to this:

    "Originally Posted by TheIronLady

    What if their dresses fall off? I think the music should be stopped and they should be allowed to get the garment back on."

    Rubleva and Shefer were the first example I could remember. They didn't stop and the referee did nothing. As far as I know there was no penalty.

  12. #312

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    The ISU wisely does not air its ambiguous laundry. Unless there is something to explain, it doesn't volunteer information. It is not a sham, but it is not transparent enough to the public. That is unfortunate but somewhat prudent. If President Putin would stop weighing in on judging decisions, maybe the ISU would not fear having an open judging system so much! I would fear the wrath a Russian KGB-trained dictator. Speaking seriously, I think more transparency should be on the ISU's agenda. Anonymous judging should be gradually phased out.
    Interesting that you found only Russia's govt as pressuring the ISU to the extent that the ISU is afraid, when in reality many other govts (particularly Canada and USA) have a lot of power on the ISU.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Interesting that you found only Russia's govt as pressuring the ISU to the extent that the ISU is afraid, when in reality many other govts (particularly Canada and USA) have a lot of power on the ISU.
    Like this:
    https://twitter.com/pmharper/status/310831096696823808
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

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