So while I totally agree with you that some athletes would probably cheat given the occasion, I don't think they would cheat on that because faking an injury to get a break wouldn't give them any kind of advantage, especially in dance which relies even more on rhythm of interpretation than singles and pairs.....
Imagine: Trankov can't lift Volosozhar at one of the their lifts and because they know instead of continue they can easily stop, repeat their lift, get their medal.
I don't know why V&M's lift was not considered aborted and they were allowed to redo it. I guess the judges determined that they stopped skatingbefore entering the lift?
I am personally okay with rules allowing skaters to restart a program - I was okay with Zhangs silver medal in Turino. It gives countries a chance to retain or gain spots, rather than lose spots, and gives skaters a chance to earn a total score. Plus, skaters learn to push through injuries and compete with injuries. Punishing them for a stop due to an injury issue, or not allowing them to restart the program, undermines the development of this important attribute.
Perhaps some skaters used to stop programs in order to get a chance to redo elements, but I don't thinks that the primary reason, at least in recent times. Injury disrupts a program and because of that, skaters lose more than they gain. V&M probably knew they didn't have a chance of winning 4CCs after they interrupted the program. They were in first place after the SD and had a good shot at winning. Losing by 3 points was huge and they would have saved face better by just bowing out due to injury.
For the most part, skaters' mentality is to finish the program at all costs. It would have to be trained into them young, as otherwise more skaters would quit mid-program just because the nerves got to them or they were having a bad outing. I'm sure it does happen on occasion, but getting through programs with injuries is far more the norm.
I can't imagine it. It would be extremely difficult to time it right and make the moment look authentic. In addition, the program would be disrupted and that net effects of that could be a score lower than it would have been had the program been skated continuously with an aborted lift.Imagine: Trankov can't lift Volosozhar at one of the their lifts and because they know instead of continue they can easily stop, repeat their lift, get their medal.
Taking a break of more than 10 seconds for pain or medical issues should be a -3.0 penalty. At major events, skaters should have the option of stopping and restarting in a worst case scenario. I think a stop due to a non-equipment failure should be allowed at Euros/Worlds/Olympics but with a -3.0 penalty.
At lesser events I say tough luck to everyone. Once you stop your program you're done. I don't care if you have the wind knocked out of you. You need to get off the ice and see a doctor unless it is Europeans or Worlds. Better luck next time.
Last edited by TheIronLady; 03-03-2013 at 12:44 PM.
When I come from holiday and I am out of shape, my coach usually let me do my run throughs in two parts. So if it is helping me, why it wouldn't be helping them?
Maybe Elene Ilinykh will fell just before the step sequence. If she don't have a time to stand up, she can fake a injury. Why lose some levels and GOE? Or maybe Davis/White will stumble or fell just before their twizzle and they will stop because they can fake a injury and do their twizzles with fresh legs. Why lose couple of points at poor quality twizzles? Sotnikova or Gold or Kostner can stop and take her time for second half of the program and get 0.1 bonus too. Fernandez can take a break before his quad. Why not? You can't lose points with this rule. Just look at the protocols.
While stopping may allow you to catch your breath, your adrenaline levels will also go down, your mental focus will change and you run the risk of not being "in" your program anymore, which actually increases the risks of making mistakes once you continue. Again, from my experience of actually having to stop in the middle of a competition, I believe the risks outweight the advantages. It certainly never crossed my mind to stop as a convenience
And you can't compare training run throughs with competition - that's just not the same thing
I'm reading your post again: if you weren't trying to imply that her stopping was being a convenience for them, maybe you'll want to reword things differently, even if I admit you didn't outright call them cheaters
I still stand by what I say: the advantage of catching your breath is offset by having to rebuild the adrenaline levels, having to refocus and go back into character. I would even go as far as saying that the risks are bigger than the advantage. The question of being able to attempt a difficulty again after being aborted, on the other hand, is more problematic and I agree that it must be addressed clearly if there is a possibility as things stand now to use and abuse any existing loophole in the rules (ps: I haven't re-read the current rules regarding the circumstances under which you're allowed/ not allowed to re-attempt an aborted difficulty)
Last edited by rayhaneh; 03-03-2013 at 03:25 PM.
There definitely should be an OT deduction among the other deductions mentioned here.
So yeah, they really need to change something before this becomes a bigger problem. Maybe make it that only the referee can stop the program for injury. That would mean the injury would have to be visible to the referee. If it is not, then the music stays on and the skater can take 30 seconds or whatever to sit on the ice or go to the boards, but they lose that time in the program, and possibly incur deductions for excessive breaks. Does that still exist? There had been, I think, a deduction for when you fall and are too slow to get back up (with the music still playing).
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I think the fairest way to handle a disruption 60 seconds or less in a program is to deduct a point from the overall score (like a fall) regardless of the reason. Any disruption longer than that will be an automatic DNF (did not finish) disqualification.
If the rules are applied universally at all skating competitions and communicated clearly that there are no exceptions (i.e. even for true emergency reasons), then it is fair. It is the athlete's responsibility to come to the meet in competition-ready form (I.e. don't compete if you're still nursing an injury!) and have all their equipment (skates, costume, etc) checked prior.
And skaters start from different elements in practice all the time, and talk about necessity of building up the endurance to get through the whole program.
I am not for draconian rules, but certainly for a deduction, and perhaps a stricter time limit.
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