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  1. #81
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    Patrick Chan reboots in Calgary and at Detroit SC

    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Sure professordeb, it's always nice to hear that skaters get along. Like I said, I think most skaters do, as they know how difficult it is to be a figure skater and they share that experience. I get why what Patrick said means something to you. My reaction is not "awww...," but we're two different people. Of course, I'm not telling you not to have that reaction, simply stating that my reaction is different.


    IMO, Patrick might be a steadier and an even more amazing skater today had the judges not decided to over-reward him on one too many occasions. It is what it is, and he can't do anything about it but continue to work hard and try to keep focusing on what he needs to do to challenge himself and to work out the kinks. The judges are always telling him, "You're pretty perfect, Patrick, and you have a huge margin for error." I personally don't think that's helpful for Patrick, but that's just my take. He seems quite a wonderful young man, and that's probably why other skaters like him. But I don't think these type of controversial scoring and wins do much for the sport, and it generates negativity toward Patrick which is unfair to him.

    Skaters look at each other and understand that the scoring can sometimes be wacky and clueless, but they just shrug their shoulders because they have no voice. They all have to accept whatever the judges mete out. All the skaters respect Patrick for his very real and extraordinary talent, and for the amazing hardworking person that he is, and it's just truly a shame that his legacy as a skater has been tainted by these judging controversies and the necessity so many of his fans feel to justify some of the OTT scores.

    Yu Na showed tonight what it truly means to win a World championship. Patrick showed what it meant, in 2011.
    Nicely said.

    ETA: Sorry, should have also said this is my first time posting here. Long time lurker lol.
    Last edited by SGrand; 03-17-2013 at 06:05 PM.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    [...]

    Since you seem to care so much about my advice, I'd further suggest in all generosity to take a deep breath, and smile. Patrick certainly knows how to do that. I'll bet that's partly what makes him so endearing to his fans.
    Could you be any more patronizing?

    Certainly all Chan fans don't react the same way, but there are a group of Chan fans who seem overly protective and perpetually concerned and uber-sensitive about how others view him.
    Actually, you never make this distinction in your posts. You treat us as some homogeneous entity and mock us endlessly.

    I've been accused of same re Johnny Weir. But IMO, the difference re Weir is that people get all nasty about his personal quirks and private concerns and sartorial choices and stuff having nothing to do with his skating. I mostly parody that, but care less who loves or hates Johnny. And, of course, Johnny was never a favorite of judges. He always had to earn marks the hard way, as do most skaters.
    No, you do make it personal when it comes to Chan. You make plenty of judgments about Chan's character, yet you get defensive when anyone says anything about Johnny (or one of your other favourite skaters) that even smacks of criticism.

    I don't care who loves or hates Patrick Chan either. I think many fans mostly hate the uneven judging under CoP that has too often rewarded one particular skater with wins for mistake-filled programs. Sure that's happened on many occasions in this sport in regard to other skaters, but I believe Patrick Chan has the honor or the ignominy of being the record-setter in that regard. Of course Chan has nothing to do with judges' decisions, but he's certainly benefited by those decisions. We all have our burdens to bear.

    [...]
    I think you do or you wouldn't antagonize his fans.
    I have absolutely no problem with anyone challenging his results or scores, but I do not understand how you, who admittedly does not understand COP very well, can say with absolute certainty that Chan was gifted.

  3. #83
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    ^^ In my experience, it does often help to take a good long look in the mirror, and also to realize that what you project comes back to you full force in one way or another.

    Maybe trying to figure out why my comments about Chan are so upsetting to you could possibly help lower your blood pressure. If Chan's fans are so antagonized by my comments, then they must be going through a very difficult time at the moment, because my comments are not all uncomplimentary of Patrick, especially compared to many I've seen recently. If you don't feel that Chan's marks were generous, and you think I'm the only one who does, welcome to reality.

    I think taking a deep breath and smiling is good advice for anyone, especially for someone who thinks such advice is patronizing.


    ETA:
    It seems as if you have some pent-up emotions about my posts in regard to Patrick, Bournekraatzfan. I would offer an apology for whatever serious offense you feel I've committed in regard to Patrick and his fans by voicing my opinions, if it would actually help lower your temperature. Or indeed if it truly made any difference to either of our lives. In any case, I doubt expending so much energy over yelling at me is making you feel better. This at a time when you should be celebrating, no?
    Last edited by aftershocks; 03-18-2013 at 12:07 PM.

  4. #84

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    Gee aftershocks ... I don't find you patronizing at all. I find your nonsensical verbiage amusing.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  5. #85
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    ^^ Well, at least that means you're smiling, spikydurian. Enjoy the off-season.

  6. #86

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    Patrick Chan spoke to Pj Kwong yesterday (7.5 min. interview): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWI0JUa4Ls0
    He plans to keep his SP for next season, his new FS is "a favorite piece of mine," and he thinks he is staying in the Detroit area to train.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  7. #87

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    And he is confident that his coach Kathy Johnson is more than competent to teach him everything he needs to know. But is not ruling out the possibility of adding someone to his team.

    He sounds very positive about his threepeat and not fazed by the negative reactions he has gotten -- which PJ did not even allude to - it was an uncritical interview. I guess he is such a fine dry aged Kobe beefsteak that she just wants to savor him. Maybe Johnson is very good at insulating him from his critics.

  8. #88

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    Patrick wants to go to hockey games with Scott. I want to go with them too!!! I love hockey and I don't mind the Red Wings -- especially given that they're scheduled to change divisions and will likely play teams I'm more familiar with.

    I really like the idea of him being in Detroit -- and he sees a lot of upside being there as well.
    Crazy about sports!

  9. #89
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    Patrick Chan reboots in Calgary and at Detroit SC

    Not to mention he's pretty good friends with Weaver and Poje and has been staying with then during his "reboot" time before worlds.

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    Patrick wants to go to hockey games with Scott. I want to go with them too!!! I love hockey and I don't mind the Red Wings -- especially given that they're scheduled to change divisions and will likely play teams I'm more familiar with.

    I really like the idea of him being in Detroit -- and he sees a lot of upside being there as well.
    Do you live near Detroit profdeb? There seems to be more Canadian skaters training in Detroit? Who are the rest? Did I hear it right? Did Patrick mention Jason being a possible co-coach? Patrick can go back to Toronto more often since Detroit is only four hours drive away.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    And he is confident that his coach Kathy Johnson is more than competent to teach him everything he needs to know.
    Wonderful.

  12. #92
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    Please, please tell me that Patrick won't go to Jason Dungjen for coaching and Yuka Sato for the LP choreography!!!!!

  13. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    Do you live near Detroit profdeb? There seems to be more Canadian skaters training in Detroit? Who are the rest? Did I hear it right? Did Patrick mention Jason being a possible co-coach? Patrick can go back to Toronto more often since Detroit is only four hours drive away.
    I'm about an hour away if I were to drive on the U.S. side, a bit over 2 hours if I drive the Canadian side. I live in a border city called Sarnia which is just across the bridge from Port Huron.

    I think when he listed Jason, it was part of the list of those who are in that area. He actually mention more skater names than anyone else. My guess is he just hasn't had time to get acquainted with all of those who coach out of that area. Just a guess, though.
    Crazy about sports!

  14. #94
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    Will I keep my "Mr. Subtle-ty" title with my new signature? I'd hate to come in second...
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenifer View Post
    Save for one outlier (the CAN judge, most likely), I don't see anything on Chan's protocol suggesting the judges were trying to hold him up with extreme GOE or components. .
    Canada had no judge in the Men Ladies and Dance.
    I haven't read all of the words on Chan..so that point may have been raised already...if so...sorry.
    Must have been some other 'outlier'.
    Last edited by Sedge; 03-22-2013 at 02:36 AM. Reason: Spelling

  16. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    because my comments are not all uncomplimentary of Patrick
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ^^ What could possibly jinx Patrick with 98+ points in the sp and his biggest rival some 14 points behind in 4th place, not to mention would-be rivals Fernandez and Hanyu even further behind and seemingly for all intents and purposes out of striking range? Denis Ten skated out of this world, but he has to do that again and absolutely cleanly just to stay on the podium -- forget about any notion of Ten challenging Patrick for gold. Even should Chan's countryman, new quad king Reynolds, land his king-making 3 quads in the fp, he's not exactly gonna make Patrick quake in his skateboots, now is he?

    Chan fans are always so nervous. Chan is bagging 3 straight World championship gold medals and a possible Olympic gold (with Olympic podium at the least a sure bet), but there will apparently still be agonizing from Chan fans all the way up to Sochi and beyond.

    Guess Patrick discovered some nice home-cooking in Detroit. Kathy Johnson is Chan's artistic guru and she ain't going nowhere all you who've been clamoring for Patrick to retain a "real coach."
    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Well, Patrick thinks it's great and obviously U.S./ America generally welcomes all comers with open arms. Patrick seems to be beloved in Colorado, but he seems quite happy and perhaps even more comfortable with the multicultural/ top skater environment in Detroit, not to mention that Detroit is a hop, skip and a jump away from the Canadian border.

    And what Patrick said about how he and Jeremy get along is not at all unusual, unique or something to get all dopey over. It's the fans of rival skaters who are the ones who don't generally get along, at least on message boards. I think it's pretty natural that most skaters do like each other because they know what competing and training are like and thus share so much in common that way. Plus I'm sure many skaters get to know each other fairly well on tours and at competitions and training sites. When people get to know each other, even if they're competing against each other, likely most of the time thoughts of intense rivalry don't come into play, unless the people in question are arrogant and have no character. And, it's not like Jeremy has ever competitively threatened Chan's loved-by-judges dominance, although Jeremy certainly possesses the complete package of talent to do so, that is, save for his lack of competitive strength mentally at the big events. And now, time is definitely running out for Jeremy.

    Also, Patrick and Jeremy share the fact that Kathy Johnson formerly was Jeremy's dance coach, and the fact that Tess Johnson was a friend of Jeremy's prior to becoming Patrick's girlfriend. I'm pretty sure that Patrick also admires Jeremy's awe-inspiring and masterful artistry on the ice. After all, Jeremy's got nothing against Patrick in any case. Jeremy himself could be Olympic champion and World champion had he ever been able to figure things out at important competitions in the way that Denis Ten suddenly and dramatically has.
    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ^^ Hey, excellent point, Chan fan. One person's nauseating post could be someone else's inspiring, heartwarming right-on post. Same goes for one's fave skater vs another's fave skater, eh?

    Lots of puking apparently still going on among fans of a wide variety of skaters in the men's event in London.

    Who could have ever predicted Denis Ten nearly toppling Chan from his precarious, but inevitably predictable perch?

    Great skates by Denis, and I love The Artist theme for both his programs. Perhaps Denis would not have been denied gold in this crazy competition if he hadn't doubled a couple of planned triples in the fp which gave the judges the leeway they needed to continue rewarding Patrick for his amazing talent (and his unforgiveable errors that would have sunk anyone else).
    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ^^ Is that a 6.0 "deeply moved," or a 98+ "deeply moved," Bournekraatzfan?

    Since you seem to care so much about my advice, I'd further suggest in all generosity to take a deep breath, and smile. Patrick certainly knows how to do that. I'll bet that's partly what makes him so endearing to his fans.

    In all honesty, my opinions will not stop anyone from getting all dopey over anyone or anything they so choose. I didn't refer to professordeb getting dopey over a skater, just dopey or a tad sentimental over what Chan said about how he and Jeremy get along, which is nice but not unusual, IMO. I'm sure Chan gets along with a lot of skaters, as does Jeremy.

    Certainly all Chan fans don't react the same way, but there are a group of Chan fans who seem overly protective and perpetually concerned and uber-sensitive about how others view him. I've been accused of same re Johnny Weir. But IMO, the difference re Weir is that people get all nasty about his personal quirks and private concerns and sartorial choices and stuff having nothing to do with his skating. I mostly parody that, but care less who loves or hates Johnny. And, of course, Johnny was never a favorite of judges. He always had to earn marks the hard way, as do most skaters.

    I don't care who loves or hates Patrick Chan either. I think many fans mostly hate the uneven judging under CoP that has too often rewarded one particular skater with wins for mistake-filled programs. Sure that's happened on many occasions in this sport in regard to other skaters, but I believe Patrick Chan has the honor or the ignominy of being the record-setter in that regard. Of course Chan has nothing to do with judges' decisions, but he's certainly benefited by those decisions. We all have our burdens to bear.





    As I said, touche, mrinalini! And congratulations, I guess, on not being a Chan fan. Forgive me for mistaking you for being one. Dare I suggest that you might not be a Kwan fan either?

    Denis Ten needs no "propping up" btw, from anyone. I thought Ten's marks in the sp were nearly as ridiculous as Chan's. Both skated beautifully in the sp and deserved their placements, but marks under quad-required CoP are so wildly fluctuating and ridiculous and debatable from event to event. To me sprinklings of 6.0s or straight 5.9s are much more exciting to see than head-scratching 98+ or 91+.

    And the endless waiting, the confused looks, the double and triple takes, nodding, and shrugging that goes on in the kiss 'n cry is sometimes laughable, although there are some endearing moments, but too few and far between. I'd say Max Aaron's and Denis Ten's reactions in kiss 'n cry were kind of endearing, and not a whit dopey, but there are probably plenty of people who disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Sure professordeb, it's always nice to hear that skaters get along. Like I said, I think most skaters do, as they know how difficult it is to be a figure skater and they share that experience. I get why what Patrick said means something to you. My reaction is not "awww...," but we're two different people. Of course, I'm not telling you not to have that reaction, simply stating that my reaction is different.


    IMO, Patrick might be a steadier and an even more amazing skater today had the judges not decided to over-reward him on one too many occasions. It is what it is, and he can't do anything about it but continue to work hard and try to keep focusing on what he needs to do to challenge himself and to work out the kinks. The judges are always telling him, "You're pretty perfect, Patrick, and you have a huge margin for error." I personally don't think that's helpful for Patrick, but that's just my take. He seems quite a wonderful young man, and that's probably why other skaters like him. But I don't think these type of controversial scoring and wins do much for the sport, and it generates negativity toward Patrick which is unfair to him.

    Skaters look at each other and understand that the scoring can sometimes be wacky and clueless, but they just shrug their shoulders because they have no voice. They all have to accept whatever the judges mete out. All the skaters respect Patrick for his very real and extraordinary talent, and for the amazing hardworking person that he is, and it's just truly a shame that his legacy as a skater has been tainted by these judging controversies and the necessity so many of his fans feel to justify some of the OTT scores.

    Yu Na showed tonight what it truly means to win a World championship. Patrick showed what it meant, in 2011.
    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ^^ In my experience, it does often help to take a good long look in the mirror, and also to realize that what you project comes back to you full force in one way or another.

    Maybe trying to figure out why my comments about Chan are so upsetting to you could possibly help lower your blood pressure. If Chan's fans are so antagonized by my comments, then they must be going through a very difficult time at the moment, because my comments are not all uncomplimentary of Patrick, especially compared to many I've seen recently. If you don't feel that Chan's marks were generous, and you think I'm the only one who does, welcome to reality.

    I think taking a deep breath and smiling is good advice for anyone, especially for someone who thinks such advice is patronizing.


    ETA:
    It seems as if you have some pent-up emotions about my posts in regard to Patrick, Bournekraatzfan. I would offer an apology for whatever serious offense you feel I've committed in regard to Patrick and his fans by voicing my opinions, if it would actually help lower your temperature. Or indeed if it truly made any difference to either of our lives. In any case, I doubt expending so much energy over yelling at me is making you feel better. This at a time when you should be celebrating, no?
    Anything else?
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Will I keep my "Mr. Subtle-ty" title with my new signature? I'd hate to come in second...
    Sorry PeterG, with that signature, you definitely lose your "Mr Subtle-ty" title. But then, since there is unlikely anyone can capitalise on your fall from grace, like Chan, you are still First.
    Love your chooks!

    OK profdeb. I learnt a bit of geography today. Now I know Sarnia and Detroit is almost on the border, and Sarnia's closer to Detroit than Toronto. Among other reasons, it makes sense that Patrick is likely to move to Detroit. He can drive back to Toronto almost every weekend.

    Just curious whether he will get an assistant coach from Detroit Club?
    Last edited by spikydurian; 03-22-2013 at 11:26 AM.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  19. #99
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    I hope he chooses to go to Calgary from time to time to work with Scott Davis who is a technical specialist.

  20. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    Sorry PeterG, with that signature, you definitely lose your "Mr Subtle-ty" title. But then, since there is unlikely anyone can capitalise on your fall from grace, like Chan, you are still First.
    Love your chooks!

    OK profdeb. I learnt a bit of geography today. Now I know Sarnia and Detroit is almost on the border, and Sarnia's closer to Detroit than Toronto. Among other reasons, it makes sense that Patrick is likely to move to Detroit. He can drive back to Toronto almost every weekend.

    Just curious whether he will get an assistant coach from Detroit Club?
    Glad I could help you add more to your geography lesson. Actually, both Sarnia & Detroit are border cities. Well most of us consider Sarnia a border city even though technically the bridge to cross the river starts in the little hamlet of Point Eward which REFUSES to join Sarnia

    If Chan were to go west, he could also go work with a former Canadian men competitor who happens to also be a technical specialist -- Kaetlyn Osmond's coach Ravi Walli.
    Crazy about sports!

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