University of Phoenix May Be Placed on Probation by Accreditor

[overedge]

The difference is that one school dances around the final goal, while the other is open about it. The goal is the same.

The article seems to imply that University of Phoenix is the only school that dupes incoming students into believing that a major they offer is a reasonable facsimile of what the student requested. Hello? Brick-and-mortar admissions counselors are longtime masters at that game. Call any admissions department asking if they offer an unusual major and they shift into full conman mode. "No, we don't have a Deaf Education major but we do have a Marine Biology major and they're practically twins! After all, marine scientists use hand signals underwater, and that's just like sign language! You'll qualify for the exact same jobs!"

There doesn't seem to be any point in continuing to discuss this with you, since you've been presented with facts and the best you can respond is with ridiculous over-generalizations and no supporting evidence.

[Prancer]

As to the cost associated with online courses, I doubt most instructors know. I wouldn't have if the Dean of the College of Health Related Professions hadn't told me. And the cost came out of his budget, now ours.

Probably not, but admin knows that online courses provide considerable savings in capital costs and overhead. There are reasons that online classes are rapidly expanding and reasons that groups arguing for lower tuition rates cite online classes as a way to lower tuition rates.

This editorial addresses some of these issues (although the studies mentioned are focused on CC students): http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/op...lege.html?_r=0

[GarrAarghHrumph]

It looks like the U of Phoenix may be put on "notice" status for the next two years. The HLC will make its final determination on June 27th:

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/m...-may-lose.html

ETA: This is the actual SEC filing related to this: http://investors.apollo.edu/phoenix....dWJzaWQ9NTc%3d

Notice status, if it's what happens, means the uni will retain its regional accreditation. However, they must address specific issues within the two year period, and report regularly to the Higher Learning Commission. Importantly, the uni must disclose that they are on notice any time they mention that they are regionally accredited, and that is a big deal. The uni believes that will impact its ability to recruit and retain students, and to recruit and retain faculty - and they are correct.

[overedge]

Is there any indication of what specifically UofP is required to change in its "governance, student assessment and faculty scholarship/research for doctoral programs"? The wording is a little unclear as to whether this is referring to these three things in relation to the doctoral programs, or just to faculty scholarship/research in those programs.

[PrincessLeppard]

Someone with whom I work got their doctorate from U of P by writing a ten page essay. I would like to see that requirement upped a bit, you know? My master's thesis was 125 pages long.

However, I have no idea if that is the problem.

[Vash01]

Someone with whom I work got their doctorate from U of P by writing a ten page essay. I would like to see that requirement upped a bit, you know? My master's thesis was 125 pages long.

However, I have no idea if that is the problem.

Theoretically, length of the dissertation should not matter if the ideas in it were brilliant. I read somewhere that Heisenberg's dissertation was 1 and a half page long. However, in the UOP case I would be skeptical about a 10-page doctoral dissertation.

[Skittl1321]

Theoretically, length of the dissertation should not matter if the ideas in it were brilliant. I read somewhere that Heisenberg's dissertation was 1 and a half page long. However, in the UOP case I would be skeptical about a 10-page doctoral dissertation.

John Nash's was 28 pages long and changed an entire field.

But yeah, generally those people who manage things like that become known entitites. The work would be lauded.

10 pages is absurdly short. When I did my Master's I didn't write a paper under 10 pages (most were 20-30) and these were just regular papers (for a math based degree, not a liberal arts one where writing is a huge part of it). It was a non-thesis degree. Is it possible to get a non-thesis doctorate (like not a PhD but another one?)? Doesn't really make sense, but the 10-page paper was descibred as an 'essay'.

[michiruwater]

I know in music people who obtain the highest academic level in performance, conducting, or composition get a DMA (Doctor of Musical Arts), which is a non-thesis degree (usually, not always). But I'm sure it's fairly obvious why - the culminating work for a DMA would be a recital, normally, for which the person would be practicing (or writing) a huge number of hours per day.

Though UofP does not offer a DMA, of course. These are the doctorates offered by them:

Doctor of Business Administration
Doctor of Management in Organizational Leadership
Doctor of Education in Educational Leadership
Doctor of Education in Educational Leadership with a Specialization in Curriculum and Instruction
Doctor of Education in Educational Leadership with a Specialization in Educational Technology
Doctor of Philosophy in Higher Education Administration
Educational Specialist
Doctor of Health Administration
Doctor of Philosophy in Nursing
Doctor of Philosophy in Industrial/Organizational Psychology
Doctor of Management in Organizational Leadership/Information Systems and Technology

All of these are offered solely online, from what I could tell after entering a bunch of different zip codes into the system. None of these sound like non-thesis degrees (except wtf is an Educational Specialist that doesn't even have 'Doctor' in front of it??), though I know little about some of the subjects.

[overedge]

IME the Doctor of Business Administration (DBA) is usually considered less rigorous and credible to a PhD in a business-related field. I have never heard of anyone other than UoP offering a Doctor of Management in organizational leadership.
And most people I know in higher education admin who have a doctoral degree other than in their subject have a Ed.D. (Doctor of Education), not a Ph.D. in higher education administration.

[PrincessLeppard]

The person I work with has one of the Education ones. And I'm just going to speculate that the ten page paper was not in any way "groundbreaking."

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I know some of those are probably legit, but some of those doctorates sound made-up.

[overedge]

I don't know about Ed.D. programs, but IME most legitimate doctoral degrees don't come with a "specialization" attached to the title. Any "specialization" within the program is in the topic of whatever you write about for your dissertation.

There's some interesting disclaimers attached to the information on the Ph.D. in industrial/organizational psychology:

http://www.phoenix.edu/programs/degr...al/phd-io.html

ETA: I also looked at some of the course outlines in this program, and there is no way that anyone could get doctoral-level skills in all the listed course outcomes in a six-week-long course.

[GarrAarghHrumph]

Is there any indication of what specifically UofP is required to change in its "governance, student assessment and faculty scholarship/research for doctoral programs"? The wording is a little unclear as to whether this is referring to these three things in relation to the doctoral programs, or just to faculty scholarship/research in those programs.

The three issues are separate. The first two apply to the uni as a whole, and the third is specific to the doctoral programs.

The governance concern has to do with how much influence the corporate entity, the Apollo Group, has over the university. The second issue, I haven't read any specifics about yet, but faculty at the university believe it has to do with the automated final exams given in many classes, which the faculty do not like. The third point - the university has recently (1-2 years) tried to further encourage its faculty to conduct research, so I'm thinking there's an issue with lack of research and scholarship being done by the faculty who teach doctoral level courses.