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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post
    The difference is that one school dances around the final goal, while the other is open about it. The goal is the same.

    The article seems to imply that University of Phoenix is the only school that dupes incoming students into believing that a major they offer is a reasonable facsimile of what the student requested. Hello? Brick-and-mortar admissions counselors are longtime masters at that game. Call any admissions department asking if they offer an unusual major and they shift into full conman mode. "No, we don't have a Deaf Education major but we do have a Marine Biology major and they're practically twins! After all, marine scientists use hand signals underwater, and that's just like sign language! You'll qualify for the exact same jobs!"
    There doesn't seem to be any point in continuing to discuss this with you, since you've been presented with facts and the best you can respond is with ridiculous over-generalizations and no supporting evidence.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    As to the cost associated with online courses, I doubt most instructors know. I wouldn't have if the Dean of the College of Health Related Professions hadn't told me. And the cost came out of his budget, now ours.
    Probably not, but admin knows that online courses provide considerable savings in capital costs and overhead. There are reasons that online classes are rapidly expanding and reasons that groups arguing for lower tuition rates cite online classes as a way to lower tuition rates.

    This editorial addresses some of these issues (although the studies mentioned are focused on CC students): http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/op...lege.html?_r=0
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  3. #103

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    It looks like the U of Phoenix may be put on "notice" status for the next two years. The HLC will make its final determination on June 27th:

    http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/m...-may-lose.html

    ETA: This is the actual SEC filing related to this: http://investors.apollo.edu/phoenix....dWJzaWQ9NTc%3d

    Notice status, if it's what happens, means the uni will retain its regional accreditation. However, they must address specific issues within the two year period, and report regularly to the Higher Learning Commission. Importantly, the uni must disclose that they are on notice any time they mention that they are regionally accredited, and that is a big deal. The uni believes that will impact its ability to recruit and retain students, and to recruit and retain faculty - and they are correct.
    Last edited by GarrAarghHrumph; 05-14-2013 at 01:51 AM.
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  4. #104

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    Is there any indication of what specifically UofP is required to change in its "governance, student assessment and faculty scholarship/research for doctoral programs"? The wording is a little unclear as to whether this is referring to these three things in relation to the doctoral programs, or just to faculty scholarship/research in those programs.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  5. #105

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    Someone with whom I work got their doctorate from U of P by writing a ten page essay. I would like to see that requirement upped a bit, you know? My master's thesis was 125 pages long.

    However, I have no idea if that is the problem.

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessLeppard View Post
    Someone with whom I work got their doctorate from U of P by writing a ten page essay. I would like to see that requirement upped a bit, you know? My master's thesis was 125 pages long.

    However, I have no idea if that is the problem.
    Theoretically, length of the dissertation should not matter if the ideas in it were brilliant. I read somewhere that Heisenberg's dissertation was 1 and a half page long. However, in the UOP case I would be skeptical about a 10-page doctoral dissertation.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Theoretically, length of the dissertation should not matter if the ideas in it were brilliant. I read somewhere that Heisenberg's dissertation was 1 and a half page long. However, in the UOP case I would be skeptical about a 10-page doctoral dissertation.
    John Nash's was 28 pages long and changed an entire field.

    But yeah, generally those people who manage things like that become known entitites. The work would be lauded.

    10 pages is absurdly short. When I did my Master's I didn't write a paper under 10 pages (most were 20-30) and these were just regular papers (for a math based degree, not a liberal arts one where writing is a huge part of it). It was a non-thesis degree. Is it possible to get a non-thesis doctorate (like not a PhD but another one?)? Doesn't really make sense, but the 10-page paper was descibred as an 'essay'.

  8. #108
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    I know in music people who obtain the highest academic level in performance, conducting, or composition get a DMA (Doctor of Musical Arts), which is a non-thesis degree (usually, not always). But I'm sure it's fairly obvious why - the culminating work for a DMA would be a recital, normally, for which the person would be practicing (or writing) a huge number of hours per day.

    Though UofP does not offer a DMA, of course. These are the doctorates offered by them:

    Doctor of Business Administration
    Doctor of Management in Organizational Leadership
    Doctor of Education in Educational Leadership
    Doctor of Education in Educational Leadership with a Specialization in Curriculum and Instruction
    Doctor of Education in Educational Leadership with a Specialization in Educational Technology
    Doctor of Philosophy in Higher Education Administration
    Educational Specialist
    Doctor of Health Administration
    Doctor of Philosophy in Nursing
    Doctor of Philosophy in Industrial/Organizational Psychology
    Doctor of Management in Organizational Leadership/Information Systems and Technology

    All of these are offered solely online, from what I could tell after entering a bunch of different zip codes into the system. None of these sound like non-thesis degrees (except wtf is an Educational Specialist that doesn't even have 'Doctor' in front of it??), though I know little about some of the subjects.

  9. #109

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    IME the Doctor of Business Administration (DBA) is usually considered less rigorous and credible to a PhD in a business-related field. I have never heard of anyone other than UoP offering a Doctor of Management in organizational leadership.
    And most people I know in higher education admin who have a doctoral degree other than in their subject have a Ed.D. (Doctor of Education), not a Ph.D. in higher education administration.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  10. #110

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    The person I work with has one of the Education ones. And I'm just going to speculate that the ten page paper was not in any way "groundbreaking."


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    I know some of those are probably legit, but some of those doctorates sound made-up.

  12. #112

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    I don't know about Ed.D. programs, but IME most legitimate doctoral degrees don't come with a "specialization" attached to the title. Any "specialization" within the program is in the topic of whatever you write about for your dissertation.

    There's some interesting disclaimers attached to the information on the Ph.D. in industrial/organizational psychology:

    http://www.phoenix.edu/programs/degr...al/phd-io.html

    ETA: I also looked at some of the course outlines in this program, and there is no way that anyone could get doctoral-level skills in all the listed course outcomes in a six-week-long course.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Is there any indication of what specifically UofP is required to change in its "governance, student assessment and faculty scholarship/research for doctoral programs"? The wording is a little unclear as to whether this is referring to these three things in relation to the doctoral programs, or just to faculty scholarship/research in those programs.
    The three issues are separate. The first two apply to the uni as a whole, and the third is specific to the doctoral programs.

    The governance concern has to do with how much influence the corporate entity, the Apollo Group, has over the university. The second issue, I haven't read any specifics about yet, but faculty at the university believe it has to do with the automated final exams given in many classes, which the faculty do not like. The third point - the university has recently (1-2 years) tried to further encourage its faculty to conduct research, so I'm thinking there's an issue with lack of research and scholarship being done by the faculty who teach doctoral level courses.
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  14. #114

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    University of Phoenix’s regional accreditation has been reaffirmed by the Higher Learning Counsel. Actually, their accreditation has been reaffirmed for 10 years – through 2023 – the maximum period possible.

    However, the University has been placed on Notice status. The uni must address three areas in the next two years, those mentioned earlier: institutional governance, student assessment and doctoral and faculty scholarship.

    Not part of the notice, they must also address issues regarding retention and graduation rates, loan default rates, and other issues mentioned, below:

    The University is required to submit a Notice Report by Fall of 2014 providing evidence that the University meets the Criteria for Accreditation, Core Components and Minimum Expectations (Assumed Practices after January 1, 2013) identified as the basis for the Notice sanction and that it has ameliorated the issues that led to the Notice sanction in the areas of governance, student assessment and faculty scholarship/research for doctoral programs. In addition, in the Notice Report the University is also required to report on its progress in other areas of concern not included in the Notice sanction, including retention and graduation rates, three–year cohort default rates, and credit hour policies and practices relating to learning teams. The University is also required to host a focused visit by HLC no later than January 2015, which is intended to validate the contents of the Notice Report.
    http://www.streetinsider.com/Corpora...x/8490385.html

    http://archive.fast-edgar.com/201307...qrsXK-s-3MHur/
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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessLeppard View Post
    The person I work with has one of the Education ones. And I'm just going to speculate that the ten page paper was not in any way "groundbreaking."

    Well...there's a physical fully accredited college in this state that gives Master's degrees in C&I to teachers whose final project basically consists of making some sort of scrapbook of their lesson plans. And a friend of mine got a master's as a "reading specialist" from another one with a final project that involved working with a partner to write a two page plan of how they would do a research project. They never actually had to do the research at all. Just write a theoretical plan for it.

    I tend to think the problem is that many colleges and universities are cashing in by giving teachers easy credits for advancing up the salary scale.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    I tend to think the problem is that many colleges and universities are cashing in by giving teachers easy credits for advancing up the salary scale.
    ita, a friend recently did some macaroni art for her masters program. i never thought i would live to see an adult get credit for macaroni art outside of rehab.
    I feel like I'm in a dream. But it can't be a dream because there are no boy dancers!

  17. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    I tend to think the problem is that many colleges and universities are cashing in by giving teachers easy credits for advancing up the salary scale.
    Well, if that's the problem, there are two sides to it. The college or university's "easy credits" are only useful to teachers to move up the salary scale if their employer or regulatory body recognizes those credits.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  18. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Well, if that's the problem, there are two sides to it. The college or university's "easy credits" are only useful to teachers to move up the salary scale if their employer or regulatory body recognizes those credits.
    Agreed. I tried to negotiate this with our school board, but it was not popular with the teachers (obviously) nor the U of P graduate. So. Yeah.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Well, if that's the problem, there are two sides to it. The college or university's "easy credits" are only useful to teachers to move up the salary scale if their employer or regulatory body recognizes those credits.
    I would not argue with that. All the colleges I gave examples from are on the list for our state department of education for credits acceptable for renewing or getting a teaching credential. So the schools accept it as well.

    In my experience, school admins also do not care if the content of continuing education is useful, rigorous or of good quality. Even worse, most state requirements will not accept graduate credits in a secondary teacher's subject area, only education credits. I am not teaching full time any more. To renew my certificate next time, I will have to take credits in education in spite of the fact that I will soon be completing a master's degree in a subject area that I am certified to teach. Those credits will not count for certification.

  20. #120

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    Really? My master's in English, not education. Another science teacher is getting her MS in Biology. Several math teachers have advanced Math degrees. This can't be specific to just my school.

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