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  1. #61
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    Ah, Tinami. Good to see you back.
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    Slightly Wounding Banana list cont: MacMadame.

  2. #62
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    Joan Rivers is from the Don Rickles school of humor. Jokes through insult, though she is far more vulgar. I watched Fashion Police that night and the comment made me squirm. I'm not Jewish, but it felt really scuzzy to me. I enjoy watching Fashion Police for the fashion itself, but most of the time I wish Joan would just shut up. I don't know that she has to apologize, it is Joan, but she should edit herself. It seems that she doesn't care about funny any more, just shock. And there are things that just are not funny.

  3. #63
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    Sorry for the double post.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    Yes, actually. It still makes me cringe because I was raised that that is a nasty word that no decent person uses. But people have the right to call themselves that they want.
    I agree with you, as far as they have the "right" to call themselves what they want. But, I agree with Rex. It is an ugly word that should not be used by anyone. If a Black person uses the word, they can unintentionally take away from it's ugliness and give permission to others to use it. I used to think it was okay for Italians to call themselves Guineas, and did myself. But, I realized it was wrong. That my using the word helped perpetuate the ugly stereotype. I realized that i cannot be offended by all of the Italian Mafia movies and other portrayals of Italian Americans as thugs and morons and then use that word.

  4. #64
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    Didn't Joan go through a personal tragedy when her husband Edgar committed suicide? H-mmmnnn....wonder how Miss Rivers would feelif someone did a joke along the lines of "A widow goes into a bar and orders a beer....." Sorry, I don't find her joke the least bit funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Joan Rivers is from the Don Rickles school of humor. Jokes through insult, though she is far more vulgar. I watched Fashion Police that night and the comment made me squirm. I'm not Jewish, but it felt really scuzzy to me. I enjoy watching Fashion Police for the fashion itself, but most of the time I wish Joan would just shut up. I don't know that she has to apologize, it is Joan, but she should edit herself. It seems that she doesn't care about funny any more, just shock. And there are things that just are not funny.
    Interesting. I agree that it wasn't about fashion at all but shock. My first time seeing the show and oddly, found Kelly Osborne to have interesting insights on fashion. I didn't know this about her. I'd seen her on DWTS and Dr. Phil but that's it. Funny she was dressed as a WW2 Bomb Girl!

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrufflet View Post
    Interesting. I agree that it wasn't about fashion at all but shock. My first time seeing the show and oddly, found Kelly Osborne to have interesting insights on fashion. I didn't know this about her. I'd seen her on DWTS and Dr. Phil but that's it. Funny she was dressed as a WW2 Bomb Girl!
    I actually find Kelly Osbourne to be the most insightful of the whole group. I really like her. I honestly respect that she has been able to (at least publicly) conquer her demons and carve out a successful life for herself. She looks fabulous (though I could do without the lavender grey hair), I (as a mom) feel proud of her. That George Kotsiopoulos is what? An actor, he's no fashion expert. Why is he even on the show? Joan dresses for shit, has awful taste in her own wardrobe. And Giuliana is just an idiot. But, we do get to see some great fashion on the show.

    An aside: Why in hell would they have Joan on Project Runway, as a judge? She's clueless. I would bet that after her comment Heidi is regretting that decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    I actually find Kelly Osbourne to be the most insightful of the whole group.
    Are you serious? I don't find her insightful at all, just opinionated. With that awful haircolor. I think George and Giuliana know more about fashion than she does.

  8. #68
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    According to wikipedia, George Kotsiopoulos is a
    is a magazine editor, fashion consultant, stylist and television personality. He is currently style editor at large forC magazine and formerly a fashion associate at The New York Times Magazine. He is co-host of Fashion Police.
    I guess he has some credentials.

  9. #69
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    I am no prude but I just don't find Joan funny anymore. I bow to her for being a pioneer for females in stand-up but there is so much time spent being snarky on this show that it limits the number of gowns we see when the program airs. I'd rather cut to the chase and put up a lot of gowns and a very limited amount of time to comment on them.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jot the Dot Dot View Post
    Didn't Joan go through a personal tragedy when her husband Edgar committed suicide? H-mmmnnn....wonder how Miss Rivers would feelif someone did a joke along the lines of "A widow goes into a bar and orders a beer....." Sorry, I don't find her joke the least bit funny.
    I suspect from things she's said in the past, she would be okay with someone telling such a joke. I'm not saying it might not hurt her feelings, but I don't think she would express outrage and say they should apologize to family members who had lost someone to suicide.
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jot the Dot Dot View Post
    Didn't Joan go through a personal tragedy when her husband Edgar committed suicide? H-mmmnnn....wonder how Miss Rivers would feelif someone did a joke along the lines of "A widow goes into a bar and orders a beer....." Sorry, I don't find her joke the least bit funny.
    The first time she went out after her husband's suicide, she said to her daughter (in a restaurant):

    'Honey, if your father saw those prices, he'd kill himself all over again.'

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    The first time she went out after her husband's suicide, she said to her daughter (in a restaurant):

    'Honey, if your father saw those prices, he'd kill himself all over again.'
    ^^


    Jews are known for their black humor, and Israelis are not different.
    I guess that is why even though I find Joan Rivers as a very vulgar person, her humor makes me laugh.
    I don't think her joke would work if she wasn't Jewish, though.

    BTW, Chaya Ostrower- Ph.D from Tel-Aviv University, picked an interesting Ph.D subject:
    If not humor we would have committed suicide - Humor as a defense mechanism in the Holocaust.
    Her thesis was published by Yad Vashem in Hebrew. The English version is about to be published as well, but here are some of her thesis work.
    An example to the self Jewish humor during Holocaust:
    After getting off the train in Auschwitz, one of the Jews who were on the selection to the gas chambers began laughing. The SS asked him why is he laughing? The Jew answered: You are taking me to my death, and I still have to wait in line for this?!

    One of the Holocaust survivors said to Dr. Ostrower:
    Humor was one of the integral ingredients of mental perseverance. This mental perseverance was the condition for a will to live, to put it in a nutshell. This I am telling you as a former prisoner. However little it was, however sporadic, however spontaneous, it was very important, very important. Humor and satire played a tremendous role, in my opinion. It was a cemetery all right and exactly for that reason, the mere fact that we wanted somehow to preserve our personality, they wanted to make robots out of us.
    ...This was the integral part of our inner, mental struggle for our human identity, the fact that we could still laugh at things like these.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eden View Post
    An example to the self Jewish humor during Holocaust:
    After getting off the train in Auschwitz, one of the Jews who were on the selection to the gas chambers began laughing. The SS asked him why is he laughing? The Jew answered: You are taking me to my death, and I still have to wait in line for this?!


    I was at an event one time and overheard a few Jewish people zinging off Holocaust jokes one after another. I was shocked, but later somebody told me that for some Jewish people it can be like a test for non-Jews. If you can't handle some black humour, then you might very well struggle with being supportive of people whose history has not only included the Holocaust, but persecution on so many levels in so many places at so many times.
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  14. #74
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    What's the difference between a pizza and a Jew? A pizza doesn't scream when it's put in the oven.

    Offensive enough?
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  15. #75

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    I don't remember the exact circumstances, and I can't find any articles online about this, but I do remember back then shortly after Edgar's suicide, someone made jokes or told stories about Joan wanting her husband to kill himself. Those comments obviously angered and hurt her, as I have a fleeting memory of watching her on the news rebut those rumors/remarks, her voice breaking as she vehemently denied wishing her husband's death.

    While it's true that shortly after his death, she began telling jokes about it as a way to deal with it, it's also true that these inflammatory remarks were very hurtful to her at the time.

    It would be nice if she'd remember that such jokes aren't funny to many people who were hurt by the events she's joking about. IMO, humor that hurts someone else is never funny.
    Give me one more quiet night, before this loud morning gets it right, and does me in.
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  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruss View Post
    I don't remember the exact circumstances, and I can't find any articles online about this, but I do remember back then shortly after Edgar's suicide, someone made jokes or told stories about Joan wanting her husband to kill himself. Those comments obviously angered and hurt her, as I have a fleeting memory of watching her on the news rebut those rumors/remarks, her voice breaking as she vehemently denied wishing her husband's death.
    I remember Howard Stern really ripping on the Edgar suicide back in the day so maybe that's who you're thinking of?
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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruss View Post
    I don't remember the exact circumstances, and I can't find any articles online about this, but I do remember back then shortly after Edgar's suicide, someone made jokes or told stories about Joan wanting her husband to kill himself. Those comments obviously angered and hurt her, as I have a fleeting memory of watching her on the news rebut those rumors/remarks, her voice breaking as she vehemently denied wishing her husband's death.

    While it's true that shortly after his death, she began telling jokes about it as a way to deal with it, it's also true that these inflammatory remarks were very hurtful to her at the time.

    It would be nice if she'd remember that such jokes aren't funny to many people who were hurt by the events she's joking about. IMO, humor that hurts someone else is never funny.
    I think it's very different to accuse someone of wanting their husband to be dead vs. telling a joke that some people might find offensive. The first is an accusation and potentially slanderous/libelous. The later is of questionable taste depending on the circumstances but is not a personal accusation.
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

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    I watch FP strictly for the fashion -- and I DVR it so I can skip through some of the crap. Joan is Joan. I barely even listen to what she has to say anymore, but I do give her props for being an innovative and fearless comedienne (back in the day). I think it's just easier for her these days to do shock humor. It doesn't take nearly as much thought, creativity or wit. IMO, the joke just wasn't funny. I didn't even find it all that shocking; it came off as more juvenile to me.

    Kelly and Guiliana are OK, but I despise their reactions to Joan. If you could "see" a laugh track, that's what they would be. They have the same, say, 3 expressions that they use over and over again in response to Joan's crude humor. Not all, but most of the reaction, looks canned.

    O-

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    I may be the minority on this one. Joan constantly uses holocaust/antisemtism in her comedy to remind her audience about this horrible chapter in history. Mel Gibson was her recent go-to-guy for her antisemitism jokes. This particular FP joke probably generates more conversation than the recent New York Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/su...ewanted=1&_r=2) I'll say her crass tactics are quite effective.

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    I remember Howard Stern really ripping on the Edgar suicide back in the day so maybe that's who you're thinking of?
    Possibly.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I think it's very different to accuse someone of wanting their husband to be dead vs. telling a joke that some people might find offensive. The first is an accusation and potentially slanderous/libelous. The later is of questionable taste depending on the circumstances but is not a personal accusation.
    I can see your point; I guess my bottom line is that if a "joke" really hurts someone, it's not funny.
    Give me one more quiet night, before this loud morning gets it right, and does me in.
    ~DC

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