Originally Posted by Vash01
He's just had back surgery.
- Rep Power
You forgot he's no ordinary being .... he's bionic, Ziggy.
Originally Posted by Ziggy
"And now here is my secret, a very simple secret: It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye" in The Little Prince - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler
- Rep Power
Well, talking about talent I agree that Sasha Abt and Ilia Klimkin were in a different league than Menshov in terms of the overall package. However, if Sasha had quads as reliable as Menshov’s, he’d probably given even Plushenko a run for his money.
Originally Posted by umronnie
As unlucky as Abt and Klimkin might have been in their careers, I think with regards to bad treatment by their own fed we now have a new leader, cause Menshov beats both of them easily in this respect. Actually I think Klimkin got Russian Fed pretty much behind him when he was younger, only when he didn’t produce the results they expected at Euros and Worlds, Russian Fed kind of let him down (though of course one can’t blame him for that, as he was really struggling with injuires that time ).
Abt definitely had “special relations” with his Fed and what they did to him in 1998 was simply distasteful and pure robbery. However, he was at least given a chance to skate at GPs regularly and managed to skate at Euros and Worlds a couple of times. Menshov on the other hand even when he placed within top 5 at Russian Nats, didn’t receive a chance to skate at GP a couple of times in the past, but instead younger skaters who placed behind him. And the handing out of this year’s spots for Euros and Worlds beats the travesty that was going on in 1998 by miles!
I have deep respect for Menshov and the way he skated at Russian Cup Final. Not many skaters would have been able to motivate themselves to fight again, in particular as he and his coach probably knew that Fed made their irrevocable choice. I found the decision after Russian Nats really unfair without being in the camp of one or the other skater, but the way Menshov acted after Russian Nationals changed that and actually turned me into a fan. Great sportsmanship!
Originally Posted by umronnie
On the other hand I think Kovtun really showed lack of this quality by not showing up at Russian cup final. I don’t blame him for taking the undeserved spot at Euros, cause it would have been stupid to reject. But for Worlds it would have been in his hand to compete at that event and prove that he is better than the other guys and should go to worlds instead of leaning back at let mama tarasova politicking his way to worlds. Though one of course might argue that such egoism is quality of a champion – sad enough you probably won’t win many medals with always being the nice guy!
Menshov LP was a hot mess at the Russia cup event, his landing of the jumps was really uncontrolled and would have received -ve GOEs internationally. If you trying to fight for the lone spot available against an opponent who did 2 quads and 2 triple axels at the europeans, and finished 5th place at the europeans, then the performance Menshov gave was definitely not good enough. Kovtun secured his spot for the worlds with the performance at the Europeans. Menshov would have had to go clean, absolutely clean to have been selected for the Worlds team. Remember Russia cup is not Russian nationals part 2, Russia cup is only used if the federation feels the performance at the Europeans was not good enough. A clean performance with 2 quads and 2 triple axels with finishing 5th, I guess was considered good enough. If Menshov wants to considered again he will have to finish in the top two at the nationals.
There was no chance of that with Tarasova politiking hard. And Voronov skated well. But a third place at Nationals should have been enough. To send the fifth-place for no apparent reason was ridiculous.
Originally Posted by Domshabfan
The Russian fed have made it clear that they do not care where Menshov finishes, they will never consider him.
All I wanna know is what was the point of the skate-off? Why didn't they just announce their decision, if the experts already agree that Kovtun has a better chance at placing in the top 10?? It's the whole false-hope angle of this drama that get me.
Hang in there Menshov
Russian Cup was always going to be held, and it was not an official skate-off (that would have been Nationals). They just made it clear to withhold the world team decisions until after it.
Originally Posted by MR-FAN
I agree this competition has no reference value for the mens because Kovtun was not there. However, this gave them a good excuse to justify sending Leonova despite her being horrible all year. I mean, suddenly Kotvun's 5th at Euros was good enough, but not Gosviani's 6th?
Last edited by Marco; 02-25-2013 at 03:52 AM.
I hate to break it to you guys, but if the 5th place finisher at Nationals can place higher than the silver medalist at Europeans, with Zayaking, then doesn't it kind of give an argument to send that guy to Worlds, with the argument that internationally he is more likely to score/place higher? And where Kovtun beat Voronov at Europeans, and Voronov beat Menshov at Nationals, well then, syllogistically, Kovtun > Menshov as well.
Basically Euros confirmed Kovtun can get pretty good PCS when he lands his jumps, he needed to be sent to a senior event to gauge what his PCS would be at a senior international, and because he had only competed as a junior internationally before, and so once Euros showed his PCS to be comparable to what Menshov and Vornov get internationally, he's the logical candidate because it comes down to technical ability, and Kovtun is ridiculous when it comes to that. He has 4t-3t and even when the 4t takes off like sideways, usually he lands it. His 3a is a rock. He landed both 3a in the bonus section of his FS at Europeans! I know Voronov and Menshov are also capable of such jumps, but the quality and consistency isn't usually as good, and neither tries for two 3a in the bonus. This isn't a Jeremy Abbott situation where one of Voronov or Menshov is a star artist with a large PCS cushion over other candidates so why not send the strongest technical skater to the Worlds? i'll admit the sending of Kovtun to Europeans was questionable but given what happened there I'm not surprised at all to see him on the Worlds team.
Don't forget, Nan Song beat Han Yan at Nationals, with higher PCS. Yan had never been to a senior international before, so Chinese Fed did not know really what kind of PCS marks to expect from him at an international championship, then 4CC happens and Yan beats Song handily in PCS and overall. Now it is unclear who goes to Worlds because it seems Yan may be the better candidate, his technical abilities are comparable to Song but his PCS are better. Maybe if Yan had competed as a senior this fall instead of junior, the Nationals results would have been different as they would have caught on that the international judges regard Yan more highly from a PCS standpoint. The situation, if Yan ends up getting sent, is really very comparable.
It is rRussia cup finals and not called skate-off, it is teh finals of athletes based on teh qualification using the Russia cup events. The event gets its significance only when the athletes sent to Europeans does not do a good enough job...
Originally Posted by MR-FAN