Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Banned Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    51
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    Hybrid System - NJS Discussion

    Quote from Golden Skate Thread:

    I had an idea just now, while lamenting (as usual) the many shortcomings of CoP -- Hybrid System. Discuss.

    Technical Elements = CoP type scoring -- this creates Technical ordinals
    Artistic Elements = 6.0 type scoring -- this creates Presentation ordinals

    Ordinals would then work as under 6.0. It might need tweaking... but even if it didn't bring the best of both worlds, it might at least eliminate the worst of both worlds. At least Technical Elements would still be scored under CoP which would be minimally affected by corruption. And at least Presentation would be freed of the shackles of CoP, scored again under a more subjective system which is really required for any kind of art.

    And as far as corruption (which has been omnipresent) -- no more anonymity, create an oversight board with actual power to investigate and stop corrupt judges, and any corrupt individual (judge or otherwise) should be banned for life.
    I think that this hybrid system is the best of both worlds.

    You get the objectivity in the technical elements, while still keeping the excitement of ordinals.

    Any comments/suggestions?

  2. #2
    Recovering from the Olys
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    28,319
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    16941
    It's IJS, not NJS anymore.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Lima
    Posts
    1,491
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I hated ordinals, that's leaving again the door open for lots of poor performances being held up thanks to the skaters reputation. That is a still a big problem when judging PCS but ordinals is not the solution IMO.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    99
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    That seems like nothing more than a 6.0 with more detailed judging on TES...

    I would stick to IJS.

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    6,265
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Sorry to hijack the thread, but this sounds similar to something I was thinking about for a while (maintaining elements with a base value plus GOE, and grading the PCS out of a 6.0) but never got around to making a thread.

    Jumps:

    Jumps would be scored basically the way they are currently: Base TES for completing the jump + GOE for how well it was done.

    For spins either:
    1.De-level spins completely and just give them a base value and grade them only on GOE like the "choreographic sequence" is scored now.
    or
    2.Change level requirements to be based on the number of turns completed in x amount time. This would give the fastest spins the biggest reward. Make the required number of turns for the highest level something that only a Lambiel/Lucinda Ruh type spin could achieve. Maybe even create a level 5 just for that type of spin. Features like a change of edge, catch foot positions, phrasing of spin to the music, etc. would garner +GOE and help those skaters who don't spin as fast, but do do those other things well.

    This would also force a skater to work on the speed and centering of a spin, rather than just awkwardly catch their foot to get a higher level.

    For Footwork:

    1. Completely de-level the footwork, give it/them a base value, and grade it/them only on GOE like the "choreographic sequence" is scored now.
    or
    2. Keep the level requirements, however split the sequences back into two, and have skater complete all the required features within the two sequences combined.

    To clarify, they would not have to do two level 4 sequences, just two sequences where the features add up to level 4 between the two.

    This would open up the footwork sequences again by not jamming all the requirements into one sequence, while still allowing the strongest skaters to still show all the steps for a level 4. It would also make for a more balanced program.

    In terms of making the scoring more clear to the audience:

    The individual jump, spin, and footwork score would be announced individually and displayed on screen before giving the TES score.

    Take for example, Kevin Reynolds score at 4CC would be shown as:

    http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/28/tesdsf.jpg (Yes, I know I butchered "Element" )

    This would help the audience understand how the TES score comes about, and lessen confusion when a skater with less difficult jumps earns a higher TES becuase they addressed all three TES categories.

    Scoring for the PCS

    Scores for Skating Skills,Transitions,Choreography, Interpretation, Performance/Execution would be on a .1 scale out of 6.0.

    The average of the judges scores for PCS categories for SS,TR,CH,IN would be announced individually and displayed on screen.

    Then each individual judges score for P/E would be announced just as the presentation score was displayed under 6.0, then averaged to be added for the final score.

    For example:

    http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/818/pcskn.jpg

    This brings the recognizable 6.0 back, and the P/E mark will be reworded to more reflect the general presentation mark of the 6.0 system, and would be where the judges would be encouraged to use a 6.0 if they felt one was warranted.

    The total PCS would be announced, and then the final score.

    Yes, it would take a bit longer to announce the score, but at least it would be easier for the average audience to see how the score came about.

    The biggest issue I could see is just with the rounding of the PCS scores. But I'm not a math person, so I leave that for others.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Hampton Roads, Virginia
    Age
    34
    Posts
    723
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    casken-
    I like your ideas for the TES scores. The problem is with the PCS scores coming out of a 6.0 there would have to be some factor to make them worth 50% of the score. I'm not sure I'm entirely convinced that they are worth 50% now, but they would definitely be worth less than 50% under your system.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    52
    Posts
    10,243
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    10899
    There are a number of different issues worth addressing. Primarily they divide into better ways to report the scores to the public vs. better ways to calculate the results for the skaters. Which do we want to focus on?

  8. #8

    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    1,447
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1676
    The 6.0 should have never ever been removed, anyone with half a brain, that works in the business, marketing, pr world would know it's an absolute catastrophe.

    It is the single most recognisable part of skating, a symbolic part of the sport. Like Louis Vuitton removing their LV logo, or Nike removing their famous tick.
    For a sport that struggles to gain mainstream acceptance and popularity, it was a disastrous move. There is zero doubt, despite what a lot of people like to think, that the IJS has dampened the popularity of the sport.

    Having said all of that, they could have very easily made the pcs out of 6.0 and incorporated it with the rest of the IJS. If not in that way, there was a hundred ways of incorporating 6.0 within the new system.
    Last edited by SLIVER; 02-22-2013 at 06:51 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •