New U.S. Pair: Rockne Brubaker & Lindsay Davis

[Rock2]

I think Lindsay and Rockne seem to have similar body types which might make them match well looks wise. Neither are long limbed or slim-hipped so they might end up looking good on the ice. Rockne does not need to bulk up. He's very athletic with very strong legs and upper body.

A girl's weight does factor in but not as much as some may think. Yes she does need to be strong but most importantly she has to have excellent technique to assist the lift. If the girl plays her role well to assist and lock in the lift (including twists) then her weight will only matter on things like maximizing height on a twist.

Two perfect examples of girls pair prowess can be found in Canadian ladies. Paige Lawrence just bombs into her lifts and gets up there almost on her own. On the other hand, Jessica Dube is a very heavy lift in the sense that the boy has to do most of the work. Duhamel even falls into this category.

So net net a new pair like D/B can work if they are just a good match in body type, goals and most importantly technique.

[essence_of_soy]

Does Linsday still skate singles?

[Sylvia]

Does Linsday still skate singles?

She hasn't competed in singles since (I believe) her JGP in the fall of 2010. She was entered in Senior Ladies for the 2010-11 and 2011-12 qualifying seasons but WD from her Regional both times.

Rock2 brings up a very good point about the female pair partner's responsibility in assisting with the lifts that has more to do with technique than her actual weight.

[aftershocks]

I agree with your points Rock2, in your #121 post (and I doubt it means you are affiliated with Rockne, despite the similarity of your user name ).

Maybe you also viewed the Felicia Beck YAS trio performance of Enticement, where it’s obvious that Rockne and Lindsay look quite good together on the ice. ITA that Rockne is not a puny underweight guy incapable of lifting his pairs partner. In the vid, he had no trouble lifting Lindsay (he did it twice too, even though they weren’t overhead lifts). I also agree with you that Rockne and Lindsay appear to have similar body types, altho’ Lindsay is very womanly and Rockne is very manly. The choreo and performance for the YAS challenge was intriguing/ enticing. Ha ha, maybe Lindsay and Rockne might consider using the music again for a future program (perhaps an exhibition?) – I wonder the name of the music they used? The choreography actually reminds me of George Balanchine’s famous choreography for Apollo, with music by Stravinsky. Of course in the Apollo ballet, the male heartthrob dances with three ballerinas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kr00uM_Z-A

I’d also like to point out that in the Felicia Beck video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF4SjCfl_tk
Lindsay performs a lovely layback spin, with aesthetically pleasing positions. Truthfully, what’s not to like? I don’t get the agonizing/ over focus on Lindsay’s weight. That was never brought up to this degree with her other partnerings! She’s not overweight! And as Rock2 points out, Rockne is a strong, capable and experienced pairs partner. They seem to have good potential and as Rockne mentioned, they were both previously trained by Todd Sand, and so have a similar movement style. That’s also apparent in the YAS video.

Another good point by Rock2 which should be obvious is that a guy does not do all the work in lifts. His partner must assist in being lifted by using her core strength. Excellent point also, re Rockne and Lindsay both having relatively short limbs – which seems to visually make them match up quite well with each other, perhaps even better than with their former partners. I think the fact of her short height and relatively short limbs may also be one of the reasons why many are seemingly focusing more on Lindsay’s womanly assets, which should be viewed with a great deal more appreciation and celebration, IMHO.

No, my views don’t mean I think their skating will have the power to stamp out hunger and bring about world peace.

Re possible music selections for Davis/Brubaker, what about something jazzy from Dave Brubeck? His Things Ain’t What They Used to Be seems apropos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_461ul51fc Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSqCkDgI8Ds Part 2

[Sk8tn]

Based on the YAS clip, could the US actually have a "voidy" pair team?

[acraven]

...Maybe you also viewed the Felicia Beck YAS trio performance of Enticement, where it’s obvious that Rockne and Lindsay look quite good together on the ice... I wonder the name of the music they used?

At least some of the music seems to be from "The Sorcerer's Apprentice", to which Stephanie Stiegler and John Zimmerman had a memorable free skate choreagraphed, I think, by Peter Oppegard.

ETA: Or not; ~tapdancer's probably correct. I should stay out of discussions involving music ID!

[Lacey]

I’d also like to point out that in the Felicia Beck video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF4SjCfl_tk

This is exquisite. Did Felicia make it up or did they all 3 do it? Someone should do choreo, and they could pick this up and stretch it into a program!

Very glad to see Lindsay in action, and, ta da, there she is with Rockne. She's lurvely and they look great together!

[Sylvia]

This is exquisite. Did Felicia make it up or did they all 3 do it?

Felicia Beck choreographed this trio number as part of the choreography competition she entered (Young Artists Showcase) in November 2011.

Thanks to micronrd for finding and posting this video earlier in this thread on 2/21!

Another good video to see by Felicia Beck a little over a year ago at the Champions Division https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF4SjCfl_tk

[~tapdancer~]

I believe the music from the Felicia Beck YAS video was "Night on Bald Mountain". Exciting piece of music, always.

Rockne and Lindsay looked great together there...really looking forward to seeing them as a pair, can't help it, I adore Rockne and I've so missed seeing him in competition.

[Clarice]

Yes, tapdancer is right. The music is "Night on Bald Mountain" or "A Night on the Bare Mountain", depending on how you translate it, by Modest Mussorgsky. The orchestral version by Rimsky-Korsakov is known by many people because it was featured in Disney's Fantasia. (Besides, the music is identified on the youtube page. )

I, too, think they look good together, and can't wait to see how they progress!

[essence_of_soy]

nm

[stjeaskategym]

Why did you even bring up this weighty issue? It’s threatening to sink this lighthearted and carefree thread.

I was replying to someone else who brought it up. It's a realistic issue in the world of high-level pairs, and probably worth mentioning in a thread about a potential pairing.

How do you know Lindsay’s not at her normal weight?

Not sure what you mean. I never said she wasn't. She looks very normal to me.

Why do you presume ”they will focus on Lindsay being pair-girl thin.” That has never been an issue mentioned in any article that I’ve seen discussing her partnerships. I dare to conjecture that your focus on weight is your own confounding bailiwick! Not a swear word, btw.

You're confusing me with another poster. I'm certainly not the only one who spoke about this topic.

Perhaps your intent was not to knock or bash Lindsay, but that’s how I perceived your previous post. You referred to Lindsay’s body as “blocky,” and you seemed to be overly concerned with her weight. You contradicted yourself by saying you don’t like to talk about skaters’ bodies, then you proceeded to do just that. You’re also now saying that Lindsay’s build is highly refreshing, but that’s not what you said previously.

That was not me who referred to Lindsay as "blocky". Again, I'm convinced you don't really remember my posts, yet you're saying I contradicted myself. I'm always up for good debate, but there's no point if you don't even know what I said. I'm not "overly concerned about size", I'm just trying to reply to what you said and make sure my words aren't being mixed up with someone else's.

It is definitely a negative and ubiquitous fault in today’s culture to be uptight and stereotypical about all aspects of our own and others’ bodies. We all come in different shapes and sizes, and it’s a good thing to not be weighed down by cultural prejudices and unconsciously make overly negative references to athletes’ bodies. At least let’s make a belated New Year’s resolution to try to abstain from doing this you guys, and especially you, stj*******gym!

Again, you've confused me with another poster. I believe I discussed this issue in a tasteful manner. Lindsay's a small, strong, healthy looking girl, and as I've said before, her body type is refreshing in a discipline where girls are often very thin, sometimes unnaturally so. I really think you're missing the point... There are next to no criticisms of Lindsay's body type in this thread. On the contrary, I think people are hoping that this pair can develop without her having to stray from her "natural, healthy size". It would be a refreshing thing to see in a world where they are sometimes added pressures on the pair girl to get smaller the shorter the pair guy is. It would be naive to believe this isn't sometimes an issue in pair skating today with the technical demands of the sport being so high. Sound technique can erase some size concerns for pair teams, but focus on technique and basics can get somewhat thrown out the window when a pair is trying to gel immediately. Hopefully this pair has enough time so that size isn't an issue.

[stjeaskategym]

Rockne does not need to bulk up. He's very athletic with very strong legs and upper body.

True, Rockne's definitely not a puny, rail-thin pair guy by any means, but he still might have to bulk up. He did mention while skating with Marley that he had gotten rid of some of his bulk (10 lbs of muscle, I believe) because she was so tiny. Only he knows what type of training he has done in the time between his partnerships and where he is at this point. Hopefully he can put on muscle quickly if need be.

I agree with the rest of your post though about the importance of sound technique and that in many cases, it's much more important than size difference. In addition to your examples, Marley is another one-- She didn't have great core strength in lifts and had some technical issues on the twist, which gave them some difficulties on these elements despite the fact that she was very short. It doesn't matter how tiny you are if you don't hold your weight well in lifts.

[stjeaskategym]

Lighthearted fun is one thing; negativity (conscious or unconscious) is a detriment toward world peace.

A message board isn't about world peace though. A forum without "negativity" and realistic thoughts and concerns is merely a cheer forum. Like most other people, I wish this pair well, but that doesn't mean we can't have thoughtful discussion.

I’m glad you now feel after relaxing your own defensiveness and unintentional negativity, that Lindsay has some great assets.

You're right, I am getting a little defensive, because you're mixing my comments in with someone else's. I mentioned some of Lindsay's assets a few pages back, but you twisted my sentence into a total negative.

Still, I wonder why you think any skater would “freak out” by the prospect of skating with someone of good caliber. Obviously, Lindsay has some pretty good caliber herself, or she and Rockne would not have paired up. I’m sure they are both excited about skating together, and will work together on gelling as a team and not “freaking out” about each other’s caliber and the pressures of competition.

Here's an example. Do you think it was easy for Marley, a young skater with little experience and zero pairs experience to be quickly thrown into a partnership with a highly experienced, mid-20s pair skater who had immediate goals of going to Worlds/Olympics? No, of course not. These are humans, not machines, and they are basically being put in a situation where they are trying to fill the shoes of a previous partner. But as I said before, because Lindsay knows how Sr pairs works and isn't a "starstruck teen", the hope is that this situation won't be that intimidating.

It doesn't even matter how good of a skater you are or how experienced you are-- When your new partner has such distinct, results-oriented goals (as opposed to performance-oriented), and it's clear right from the beginning that anything less than the Olympic team 10 or so months from now will be thought of as a failure (for at least one partner), there's added pressure there, for both partners. It's not necessarily a totally bad thing-- it may even be a little motivational-- but we shouldn't pretend it doesn't exist. A sports psychologist might tell you you're better off focusing on performance and then letting the results/rewards fall where they may. But again, in Rockne's case, he's sort of "been there, done that", so it's natural for him to have a tougher time breaking away from the more results-oriented mentality. And with that comes more pressure.

I think you were just pulling my leg when you said that’s your last remark on this topic. I wish it was, but I bet it isn’t.

That's not what I said at all. If you go back, you will see I quoted my last remark from my previous post. I don't mind debate and being criticized, but why bother criticizing me when it's clear you didn't really read my posts, or remember what I said? It's fine if you don't want to read my posts, just please don't put words in my mouth.

On another note, I apologize to the thread for breaking up my replies into 3 separate posts--- I just felt it was much easier to read than one crazy long post.

[aftershocks]

I apologize, stjeaskategym, for confusing some of what you said in your initial post with a post by figureit. Indeed there were at least four to five posters (including yourself) who initially posted negative concerns having to do either individually or in some instances collectively with Lindsay’s weight, body shape, lines, extensions, and her caliber as a skater relative to that of Rockne.

Thanks for clarification of your thought process behind some of your comments. I still think the more critical overly concerned comments about Lindsay do not hold much weight.

I understand the example you are making re Mary Beth. However, I don’t think we should assume that your thoughts about the pressures Mary Beth may have felt in skating with Rockne are necessarily on the mark. Mary Beth and Lindsay are two separate individuals with different personalities. We also are not privy to what Lindsay and Rockne have discussed about their individual and collective goals in connection with their on-ice partnership.

As far as my reference to world peace, it is tongue-in-cheek, and a humorous take on the sarcastic/ humorous mention of world peace by a number of posters in this thread. Also, my reference to “sinking this lighthearted thread” is also tongue-in-cheek.

…There are next to no criticisms of Lindsay's body type in this thread...

There are a number of critical comments (and insinuations) in this thread made in regard to Lindsay and to her body:

For example:

post #74

Rockne is a much better and prettier skater than Lindsay

post #75

I don't always agree with your comments...but on this you are spot on. Just wondering why no one else has seemed to comment about this? She is very blocky and no pointed toes or stretched pair lift positions… I just worry they will focus on Lindsey being pair girl "thin" and it worries me …

post #79

figureit and johndockley92, this is what I was hinting at earlier! Sad to say but I really don't see her potential at all, especially compared to Keauna.

post #32

Lyndsay Davis i.e the partner of Ladwig??? Please say it isnt so

post #83

I have a similar worry … I worry a bit about the pressure there might be on her to get smaller for him… it would be disappointing if she was to struggle with weight pressures to try to get this partnership going quickly … Well Lindsay of course is not only taller than Marley but has an actual adult build, so Rockne needs to be bulked up. As for her lines vs his lines...the concerns are understandable… At least she knows how Sr pairs works … and hopefully won't freak out from skating with someone of Rockne's caliber.

There are also a couple of other half humorous, half derogatory references/ observations made by other posters.


On a positive note, I think it's wise to:
Love the body God gave you, and make it shine! Work it! Be the best you can be with what you've got! Good affirmations not only for all young impressionable females but for everyone made to feel lesser than about their bodies and/ or abilities.

BTW, I’m all for thoughtful discussions.

[figureit]

This is a discussion thread not a cheer thread however it is important that you are not judging that someone is critical or not. That said my comments were made from reality and also because I am good friends with someone who was a pair skater and who had a body much like Lindsey and who also was made to loose weight for a partner and got anorexia so my comments are not made in critique as much as concern that is based on the sport of "pair skating". It is as once explained by the great John Nicks..."Just the way it is in pair skating"...The concerns are real and are a part of pair skating especially in general and due to physics. I agree also that the girl being strong in core and strong in lifts also plays a part of lifting etc...Please note: Having seen someone I love suffer from these issues it is a credible concern albeit not the only one or the end all be all. Just a thought and concern in regards to this sport of being a pair girl...brought up in a discussion forum.


I also gave an account of Gretchen Donalon who was one weight the first year she skated with Speroff and then totally super skinny the following year and it was scary but no one seemed to care because she had a HUGE triple twist and beautiful lines then..no one seemed to mind....
It is a real concern not a critique of her natural body. I wish she had just stayed healthy and strong as her natural frame and not lost all that weight and in stead Speroff had hit the gym full force...there are some unequal issues in pairs where this is concerned and again this is known just not talked about often.... I was just bringing that up it is valid even if you don't like it or want to discount it. I am not sure why it came out here and it was not a dis on Lindsey..it just initiated a concern I have had for while about pair girls in general...Having seen recent photos of Caitlin Y (twitter) too she is looking extremely thin! and it is just something on my mind as yes sensitive subject but one that needs to be talked about as well....

I also do not want to be accused of hating someone or denying them their natural amazing frame in which I agree they should certainly celebrate that has been my point from the beginning.

It is a concern because I do admire a true body, a healthy body, and honoring your frame is what I said. I know it is not popular, or even politically correct to bring this up...it is very sensitive...
Thank you for pointing out all that you felt was critical instead of seeing it was coming from a concern...that is your right to do so as it is mine to point out that you are very critical yourself...

A cheer thread would be a positive thing to do for this team as well because it would be good to focus only on the positive there. Some comments are what people feel and sharing thoughts, concerns, and yes even thoughts in a discussion thread is what it is about. To quote John Nicks again "If you can't stand the heat..." when I read horrible negative comments I think about D/C I was a little shocked but was told "That is FSU"..sharing thoughts in a discussion thread even if it is not your view is what gives this forum spice and difference....that said I am hoping with your smiley faces and joking what did you say? "tongue and cheek comments" you are willing to see the other side in this discussion and something that holds merit even if it is not your view point.


There are a number of critical comments (and insinuations) and "CONCERNS and well wishes."..in this thread made in regard to Lindsay and to her body but also of their potential possibilities as a team....:None of the comments were out to get her? but were reality of the way people saw things and that is not derogatory. This is a judgmental sport though...you go out you skate you are judged your body, your outfit, your style, your everything...so when people are commenting...it is subjective...respect that. It is hard I know...I have had to do it many times reading these forums about D/C whom I like and other teams I find really wonderful that someone including you has not found wonderful. It does inspire a discussion and that can be a good thing.


On a positive note, I think it's wise to:
Love the body God gave you, and make it shine! Work it! Be the best you can be with what you've got! Good affirmations not only for all young impressionable females but for everyone made to feel lesser than about their bodies and/ or abilities.

You my fellow poster... have been guilty of not doing this in some posts I have read. Depending on the team we are talking about. I agree with your comments so if she changes her frame in anyway it will break my heart I love this and hope it is the only thing she is thinking regardless of what anyone may say or ask of her....unfortunately John Nicks words are ringing in my head..as well as any other coach that has made a pair skater stand on a scale (which I understand was and is common practice) ..I have heard pair boys say that because a girl gained two pounds he could not lift her??? that is so ludicrous (sorry guys get in the gym!) but I realize many say it is just a life of a pair girl. I know it is sensitive subject but I am for one sick of seeing girls especially being targeted in this department and one year come out with a beautiful God given body and the next year be looking like they have not eaten in years...that should be outlawed! That is my true opinion....That maybe is a whole other thread....so instead let us concentrate on some other issues...

There are other issues that were brought up in this forum but all teams have issues and challenges, also beauty in their own right and I hope it works out for her and for Brubaker.
Does anyone have any idea at all???
????? What the issues she had with Mark who is such an easy going guy??? that she could not work out does anyone know the answer??? It seems other pairs change partners for these reasons and they get roasted! and I mean roasted but because it is Brubaker it is all good..still curious though...

BTW, I’m all for thoughtful discussions. [/QUOTE]
This is good to know and I hope it is true or is it if you think it is thoughtful ? and nothing is but what you would find to be that way? Hopefully you can welcome just a good discussion even if it is a different point of view than yours. FSU can be a lot to get use to...but once all views are welcomed or even disagreed with without become called "derogatory" a "thoughtful discussion" can be had!

Here's to that Cheers!

[hippychick]

This is a discussion thread not a cheer thread however it is important that you are not judging that someone is critical or not. That said my comments were made from reality and also because I am good friends with someone who was a pair skater and who had a body much like Lindsey and who also was made to loose weight for a partner and got anorexia so my comments are not made in critique as much as concern that is based on the sport of "pair skating". It is as once explained by the great John Nicks..."Just the way it is in pair skating"...The concerns are real and are a part of pair skating especially in general and due to physics. I agree also that the girl being strong in core and strong in lifts also plays a part of lifting etc...Please note: Having seen someone I love suffer from these issues it is a credible concern albeit not the only one or the end all be all. Just a thought and concern in regards to this sport of being a pair girl...brought up in a discussion forum.


I also gave an account of Gretchen Donalon who was one weight the first year she skated with Speroff and then totally super skinny the following year and it was scary but no one seemed to care because she had a HUGE triple twist and beautiful lines then..no one seemed to mind....
It is a real concern not a critique of her natural body. I wish she had just stayed healthy and strong as her natural frame and not lost all that weight and in stead Speroff had hit the gym full force...there are some unequal issues in pairs where this is concerned and again this is known just not talked about often.... I was just bringing that up it is valid even if you don't like it or want to discount it. I am not sure why it came out here and it was not a dis on Lindsey..it just initiated a concern I have had for while about pair girls in general...Having seen recent photos of Caitlin Y (twitter) too she is looking extremely thin! and it is just something on my mind as yes sensitive subject but one that needs to be talked about as well....

I also do not want to be accused of hating someone or denying them their natural amazing frame in which I agree they should certainly celebrate that has been my point from the beginning.

It is a concern because I do admire a true body, a healthy body, and honoring your frame is what I said. I know it is not popular, or even politically correct to bring this up...it is very sensitive...
Thank you for pointing out all that you felt was critical instead of seeing it was coming from a concern...that is your right to do so as it is mine to point out that you are very critical yourself...

A cheer thread would be a positive thing to do for this team as well because it would be good to focus only on the positive there. Some comments are what people feel and sharing thoughts, concerns, and yes even thoughts in a discussion thread is what it is about. To quote John Nicks again "If you can't stand the heat..." when I read horrible negative comments I think about D/C I was a little shocked but was told "That is FSU"..sharing thoughts in a discussion thread even if it is not your view is what gives this forum spice and difference....that said I am hoping with your smiley faces and joking what did you say? "tongue and cheek comments" you are willing to see the other side in this discussion and something that holds merit even if it is not your view point.


There are a number of critical comments (and insinuations) and "CONCERNS and well wishes."..in this thread made in regard to Lindsay and to her body but also of their potential possibilities as a team....:None of the comments were out to get her? but were reality of the way people saw things and that is not derogatory. This is a judgmental sport though...you go out you skate you are judged your body, your outfit, your style, your everything...so when people are commenting...it is subjective...respect that. It is hard I know...I have had to do it many times reading these forums about D/C whom I like and other teams I find really wonderful that someone including you has not found wonderful. It does inspire a discussion and that can be a good thing.


On a positive note, I think it's wise to:
Love the body God gave you, and make it shine! Work it! Be the best you can be with what you've got! Good affirmations not only for all young impressionable females but for everyone made to feel lesser than about their bodies and/ or abilities.

You my fellow poster... have been guilty of not doing this in some posts I have read. Depending on the team we are talking about. I agree with your comments so if she changes her frame in anyway it will break my heart I love this and hope it is the only thing she is thinking regardless of what anyone may say or ask of her....unfortunately John Nicks words are ringing in my head..as well as any other coach that has made a pair skater stand on a scale (which I understand was and is common practice) ..I have heard pair boys say that because a girl gained two pounds he could not lift her??? that is so ludicrous (sorry guys get in the gym!) but I realize many say it is just a life of a pair girl. I know it is sensitive subject but I am for one sick of seeing girls especially being targeted in this department and one year come out with a beautiful God given body and the next year be looking like they have not eaten in years...that should be outlawed! That is my true opinion....That maybe is a whole other thread....so instead let us concentrate on some other issues...

There are other issues that were brought up in this forum but all teams have issues and challenges, also beauty in their own right and I hope it works out for her and for Brubaker.
Does anyone have any idea at all???
????? What the issues she had with Mark who is such an easy going guy??? that she could not work out does anyone know the answer??? It seems other pairs change partners for these reasons and they get roasted! and I mean roasted but because it is Brubaker it is all good..still curious though...

BTW, I’m all for thoughtful discussions.

This is good to know and I hope it is true or is it if you think it is thoughtful ? and nothing is but what you would find to be that way? Hopefully you can welcome just a good discussion even if it is a different point of view than yours. FSU can be a lot to get use to...but once all views are welcomed or even disagreed with without become called "derogatory" a "thoughtful discussion" can be had!

Here's to that Cheers![/QUOTE]

I dont think it is fair to speculate that when a female pair skate loses weight it is because her partner is unable or unwilling to "bulk up", or even that the girl is being encouraged to lose weight by her partner or the coach. Sometimes the girl takes it upon herself without any encouragement at all. In Donlan/ Speroff's case he looks pretty bulked to handle some additional weight. In fact I am sure some additional muscle by Donlan would benefit both of them in terms of jumps and overall strength. I think I read somewhere that Donlan became a vegetarian and maybe the change in her diet contributed to her weight loss. I know the tendency by everyone is to always believe it is the male partner and or coach that is encouraging the skater to be smaller and sometimes that is not the case, with loss of weight comes loss of strength and there is a fine line between the two.

[aftershocks]

Thanks figureit, for explaining the genesis of your viewpoints. It can be a good thing to share our impressions and then be open to expanding our perceptions and the way we think. I’m certain that I have made many critical comments since I tend to be opinionated (that’s mostly my ego at work). I certainly try not to voice my opinions about skaters in an overly negative and dismissive way, although I may not always succeed 100%. I am often critical of some posters who I find to be negative and dismissive, but I’m learning how to do it in a more positive way. In any case, I’m sharing my differing perspective, not saying that everyone must think the way I do. I’m not perfect and none of us are. Once again, if we can be open to thoughtful discussion, we maybe can expand our awareness even if we still disagree with each other’s viewpoints. Sometimes it might be helpful to realize that our viewpoints are driven by our subjective preferences for certain skaters over other skaters.

We won't ask Alexei Urmanov what he thinks about Lindsay or Melanie's body! But the Urmanov way of thinking is very common in the dance world, especially in ballet. And pair judges are not that far ahead in that department. You are talking about ladies with very muscular legs …
As far as Lindsay's line, it is all relative… she is being compared to skaters like Caitlin Y...and the difference is huge when they skate after another.

I’m not really aware of Urmanov’s views on this topic. I do understand that you are speaking of prevailing stereotypical attitudes. Actually, Lindsay does not have muscular, bulky legs. It appears to me that she has a womanly shape, with a medium to long torso, ample hips and thighs with slim shapely legs and good extension on lifts and landings. She could achieve even more stretch and extension, but what she has right now is better than that of some other pair ladies. In my view, Lindsay is also very graceful and she interprets music well. With Rockne, Lindsay will surely continue to develop her strengths and improve on weaker aspects of her skating (as hopefully they both will). Certainly Lindsay has great incentive and motivation to strive toward being better and better as a pairs skater. The way Rockne and Lindsay look together in the Felicia Beck YAS performance video definitely demonstrates that their pairing is promising.

Since Caitlin and her new partner have not skated competitively this season, I doubt Lindsay has ever skated after Caitlin. And, in any case, all skaters should be judged for what they can do, and not against how their bodies might be negatively perceived in comparison to other athletes, or on the basis of some stereotypical idealized image. I know that might be a pie-in-the-sky hope for judges to aspire toward.

BTW, I linked the Melanie Moore vids not because I think Melanie and Lindsay have the same body structure – they don’t! Melanie seems a bit shorter and her legs are stocky and more muscular, but as a dancer, she has out of this world extension and stretch that I think many figure skaters should aspire to acquire. Melanie defies the snobby attitude that you have to be thin to have grace and to train in ballet and be a dancer. She’s not trying to be a prima ballerina, but she can obviously nail all forms and styles of dance.

Above all, I think Melanie Moore is a great example of a young woman who is utilizing every fiber of her being to be the best she can be at her heart’s desire, and she obviously didn’t allow any negative naysayers to rain on her parade and tell her what she could or couldn’t do because of her shape, or her height. She seems comfortable in her own body, has evidently trained her a** off, and apparently knows how to go after her dreams with unstoppable belief in herself and her talent.


Thanks to those posters who commented on the YAS video and who pointed out that the music Felicia, Lindsay and Rockne skated to is from Night on Bald Mountain, by Modest Mussorgsky: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGb6lKaJCqE
Does anyone recall other skaters who might have performed to this music?

[TwizzlerS]

The confusion between the music that was used (Night on a Bald Mountain) and what one poster thought (The Sorcerer's Apprentice) may have come from the fact that both of these pieces are in Fantasia (the Disney video from many years ago).

I believe Alexander Fadeev skated to Night on a Bald Mountain and, perhaps, so did Timothy Goebel.

[figureit]

Tai Babilonia

I'm thrilled for rockne! there is one mistake he keeps making and no one catches it except me, he did it again in this one, "my goal is to make the olympic team" he should have said "OUR goal " maybe the usfs will one day correct him on this, his mind set is all wrong, he is part of a team and should stop making it just about what HE wants. just an observation from me, the past or as the usfs has labeled me " not a current champion who young skaters can relate to" my best to rockne and his new partner. tai


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