Last edited by Sylvia; 02-25-2013 at 10:27 PM.
^^ Exactly, DarrellH. I don't disagree with the point Tai is making, but I also think your broader perspective is on target, and similar to the view expressed by the IN poster who responded to Tai's comment:
Most of the IN commenters seem excited and supportive of Rockne and Lindsay. One poster who apparently knows Lindsay mentioned that Rockne and Lindsay "both talked about it long and hard before the tryout." That's hopefully another good sign of potential success for this partnership. They should take each day as it comes and not get ahead of themselves.I agree with this. A pair can only have a chance of success if they think of themselves as a unit and are willing to make the compromises and sacrifices necessary for the good of the team. I think part of Rockne's individualistic mindset might stem from the fact that he and Mary Beth Marley seemed on different wavelengths because of their vastly different levels of experience. That partnership ended quickly, which forced him to think even more about his own goals instead of thinking about a team. I think it may be easier for him to think in the mindset of a collective unit more than individual now that he doesn't have to "teach" his partner how to do pairs and sort of drag her along in the process. -- LJ Mi
BTW, what up with USFS' dis to Tai re her not being a "current champion who young skaters can relate to"??? That doesn't make sense. Plenty of pairs teams could benefit from Tai's wealth of pairs experience. Pairs skating has changed in terms of technical advances and a different judging system, but most of what goes into making a successful pair team has not changed. I'm sure Tai could provide a great deal of insight and support through mentoring.
IMO, there will only ever be one G&G. And they experienced many struggles in reaching the pinnacle of the sport. Read Katia’s My Sergei. Despite all evidence to the contrary, G&G were not perfect. It was all a beautiful illusion. That’s what figure skating is at its best. I bow to the lovely memory of G&G, but I also love, hail and celebrate the North Americans Sale/ Pelletier, the Germans Savchenko/ Szolkowy, and the Chinese Shen & Zhao.Originally Posted by jdonavan
A Russian pairs aesthetic in figure skating is NOT the only ideal to strive for. Everyone should not have to conform to or be pressed into the same mold. Respect North American Pairs!!! I do think that figure skaters should regularly train in ballet because it is a basic foundation of movement technique, but then go out and break the rules and do their own thing. That’s how the world grows and evolves.
Speaking of growing and evolving:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xjPODksI08 One Love/ Playing for Change
Speaking of Davis/ Brubaker bringing about World peace, maybe they could skate a sp to this:
And a lp to this:
And just because …
Dream a dream, everyone.
I’m not intending to be hyperbolic either. I just have unwavering faith in the power of dreams.
The most important things are staying in the moment, making the effort, and enjoying the process. Realizing a dream is just icing on the cake – not the whole enchilada.
I think she's taking the word 'my' to a whole other level than may or may not have been intended.
^^ Yes, Tai is splitting hairs a bit. I think the comments of DarrellH and the IN poster I quoted present a more reasonable perspective re Rockne's phrasing. In any case, in the IceNetwork article, Lindsay speaks about the Olympics in a similar way that Rockne did.
"I feel like both Rockne and I have never had the chance to grow with a partner, so I'm extremely excited to work not only toward this Olympics but possibly the next as well." -- Lindsay Davis
After all, they have just announced their new partnership. As they begin working together, becoming comfortable with each other on the ice and melding as a team, the "our/ we" mode of expressing themselves will naturally develop.
Tai I think was the mentor to Keauna and Rockne so she probably has some insight in this...what you say even from the beginning matters. When you learn to hold the pairs hand or make sure they are ok...you do not just skate with them and off the bat skate away from them or not worry if they fall? and say hey we are a new team when we are together longer I will learn to care more about "US". You begin as a unit and end as a unit...if I recall this was an issue with Keauna and Rockne...so it does affect the focus, feeling, and trust of a team...just thought it was an interesting insight given her background with Rockne from the beginning...and if he also took from Mr. NIcks...Tai would have insight on that partnership as well...the point of changing that mindset is very crucial I believe to the failure or success of a team from the beginning and given her background with Rockne in particular it could be a valid concern and may have more meaning than you may first think...just a thought...
Also if Rockne was a novice pair boy then I would think it would develop as a senior pair very experienced you know it does affect a team no matter how new. You don't do a triple twist and say "Hey when we are together longer then you can trust we will be as one" You are a team asap committed...and then no matter what happens in competition or practice you do it together...it is no ONE person's fault.when something happens.....I am guessing that is what she was trying to point out...that is why you hear teams say "WE had a bobble but ended strong" when maybe just the girl fell on triple toe. I love hearing that because even if they are new I know they are grounded....and have a strong base...does it happen all the time? Nope and that could be more important than you think maybe when it doesn't happen it is a showing of some issues with the team? I just think maybe she has an insight that is interesting and I have read some of her thoughts and don't always agree with her voice she is outspoken but I respect her especially where pairs are concerned.
The success of a team starts from the meeting before you even enter the ice but once you commit that is it you fall as a team, you land as a team, and you catch as a team...regardless...and with that mind set it can put into motion a connection that doesn't develop but lays the ground work for success...and that matters...so I thought her comments rather than brushing them off as if she may not know what makes a team long term????...but instead listening to her may make a difference for this teams success especially if they are talking long term partnership..and especially since she has worked with or been around Rockne in other partnerships and would have insight in this area...
I just thought her comments were interesting due to that and I believe there could be success with this team if these things are payed more attention to this time with Rockne cause although I do not believe he will cause World Peace but he is an amazing pair skater and it would be great if this was the partner for him longterm and maybe just maybe this is why he has had issues in that department????
I was watching videos of Lindsay skating with Mark this season.
Stroking - nice, even and she seems to generate good speed
Jumps - she lands harder triples (3sals) with good flow
Extension - she's not a willowy ballerina, but she achieves an acceptable amount of extension in her lifts.
Already, she has certain attributes over MBM, including maturity and pairs experience. I think it might work
They will need to work on the 3twist, but if MBM and Rockne could get there, then so can D/B.
I assume they will want to get on the ice this coming season ASAP. What summer competitions could they enter?
I can't remember if Rockne Brubaker has attempted 3S in his pair programs before? 2A, 3S and 3Lo are Lindsay Davis' more consistent jumps.
Skate Detroit would be a logical, local debut competition for them (last week of July), then Indy Challenge, of course.
You make a good point, figureit, that Tai has had experience with Rockne and Keauna in the past, so she might have some insight in that respect that we do not have. Perhaps Tai didn't sense a full commitment between Rockne and Keauna when the going got rough. However, I don't think we should assume that it was only Rockne who is to blame for that split. Certainly, Rockne had to have learned from his past two partnership experiences. On the surface, he seemed patient with Mary Beth and willing to work with her since she was new to pairs. And when Mary Beth was deciding to quit, Rockne (again on the surface) seemed supportive and gracious about her decision.
Everyone makes good points re Lindsay's jumping ability, which is a bonus. Most likely both Rockne's and Lindsay's past partnership experiences will benefit their new pairing.
For sure I do not believe it is all Rockne that is to blame for the split I believe that it takes two...on that account and it could be that because of that particular partnership he had to think as one and began what I see as a bad habit in focusing on himself...maybe out of necessity who knows?. I am not saying he did not have a reason to start that mode of thinking just that I believe that Tai is right it affects a partnership in the beginning and it is something that should be emphasized "team" right from the start..maybe it had an impact on the M/B partnership too...?? not sure. I also believe that the universe has a plan and it doesn't always coinside with what we think... about something and I hate to say it but usually "there is a reason for everything". So maybe this is his perfect partner?...sometimes it is a journey. Just thought Tai's insight was interesting......
My comments, reese, are based on quotes by both Rockne and Mary Beth in printed articles; on their interaction in competition; on their comments and interaction in interviews throughout their partnership; and on mutually supportive quotes by Rockne and Mary Beth after their split. So as I said, on the surface Rockne seemed patient, obviously willing to help an inexperienced partner, and supportive leading up to and after their split. Rockne's encouragement and support is my perception, and it's based on more than pure speculation.
I agree it is in articles and in interviews in quotes so it came form them...that puts it beyond speculation...
whether or not they meant what they said or were just being politically correct is another matter...do you have some insight that is more or less? Why would you say it is speculation?? Please share Reese just curious..
.and I also agree we are discussing the new pairing of D/B but giving them time and letting them gel is always expected....and truly the more good pairs we have in the US the better!
With Mary Beth, it was the opposite-- 3T was their "main triple" (3T-2T in LP), and Rockne was fine with it then. And then they briefly tried 3S as the second triple, but it didn't work out (he actually landed them fine in competition; it was more of a problem for her with everything else going on in the program, plus they didn't have good unison on them). They switched to 2A, and he rarely messes up that jump.
Overall, Rockne is good with 3T & 3S. And 2A. I've never heard of him doing a 3Lo at any point in time, and I'm thinking all the way back to when he competed as a novice man. I could be remembering incorrectly, but I don't think so. I know Lindsay and Themi were quite good at 3Lo. In recent years Rockne would practice 3F, but that obviously never made it into a program.
Last edited by stjeaskategym; 02-26-2013 at 01:19 AM.
I don't think Rockne is a bad person, but I do think his ego *can* make him difficult to work with. Maybe this Davis situation will be different; I don't know. I think the pressure of skating with The Rockne Brubaker was very difficult for Mary Beth.
And, during Tai's recent Skating Lesson podcast interview with Jenny and Dave, Tai also mentioned her desire to be of service to U.S. pairs in whatever capacity she could be of most benefit.
But, apparently you have more intimate knowledge about Rockne's ego than I do, reese. However, unless you do know Rockne personally, I wonder how you arrived at your conclusions. In any case, every human being has an ego (not to mention vanity and pride). It's only the very rare human who has the ability to keep their ego under control at all times.
And what is this about The Rockne Brubaker. I mean, he's obviously a very talented male pair skater with porny good looks, but it's not like he's the pair skater version of Patrick Chan, or is he???
Hopefully, Rockne's brother Collin doesn't have the same "ego gone wild" gene. And pardon me for feeling skeptical that it was largely Rockne's ego, or Rockne's large ego that weighed so heavily upon both Keauna and Mary Beth thus causing those respective splits/ break-ups. As the years pass by and the dust settles, I wonder whether there will be a tell-all? Has anyone informed Stefania?
Disclaimer: Don't mind my sarcasm, it's just my ego responding.
Last edited by aftershocks; 02-26-2013 at 10:19 PM.
^^ What I suspect has been the issue with Rockne's most recent partners....KM and MBM...has very little to do with Rockne's ego. I think it is more of a difference in maturity, lack of.... or differences in common goals and the way in which those goals were approached, and quite often that is reflective of work ethic, maturity, life experiences. I think there was too much of a age difference, esp with MBM, and with Keauna....it was perhaps a change in her life goals. After not qualifying for Vancouver, I think the idea of working another 4 years towards Socchi was not in her life plan.