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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tak View Post
    The most memorable skate for me, at 90 Worlds was a rarely mentioned skate by fourth place finisher.
    After OP, uninformed Midori fans like me, were certain Midori will win, since there was NO way Jill could beat Kristi in free skate.
    Kristi was strong toe jumper as well as being outstanding artistic free skater.

    Imagine my surprise and dismay when Kristi fell on TWO toe jumps (one of them was a toe loop!), and then even had a near fall exiting a spin.

    This performance exemplify what I have since called "Low beam" skating. IMHO, Kristi could not skate up to her immense potential since that would have meant a fellow USA team member losing the Championship. A skater performing below her skill level is the essence of "Low beam" skating. Kristi shows how to do it gracefully in her free skate, IMHO.

    The next year, as I joined full standing ovation for Kristi's "Samson and Delilah" at Munich, I could not help muttering "Where the heck were you last year!"
    I highly doubt she skated poorly so Trenary would win. She was also competing in pairs at that event. She must have been exhausted by the time the ladies free skate was held.
    I'm going to twizzle into a triple axel and spiral out of it.

  2. #22
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    Kristi in 1990 was not an outstanding artistic free skater at all. Her artistry was very undeveloped at that point. She also wasnt a consistent jumper yet. I was not at all surprised Jill managed to place 2nd in the LP at those Worlds, although I wish Kristi had of course.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tak View Post
    The most memorable skate for me, at 90 Worlds was a rarely mentioned skate by fourth place finisher.
    After OP, uninformed Midori fans like me, were certain Midori will win, since there was NO way Jill could beat Kristi in free skate.
    Kristi was strong toe jumper as well as being outstanding artistic free skater.

    Imagine my surprise and dismay when Kristi fell on TWO toe jumps (one of them was a toe loop!), and then even had a near fall exiting a spin.

    This performance exemplify what I have since called "Low beam" skating. IMHO, Kristi could not skate up to her immense potential since that would have meant a fellow USA team member losing the Championship. A skater performing below her skill level is the essence of "Low beam" skating. Kristi shows how to do it gracefully in her free skate, IMHO.

    The next year, as I joined full standing ovation for Kristi's "Samson and Delilah" at Munich, I could not help muttering "Where the heck were you last year!"
    Jill had just beaten Kristi in the FS at Nationals so it wasn't that big a shocker.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Kristi in 1990 was not an outstanding artistic free skater at all. Her artistry was very undeveloped at that point. She also wasnt a consistent jumper yet. I was not at all surprised Jill managed to place 2nd in the LP at those Worlds, although I wish Kristi had of course.
    Actually Kristi WAS a consistent jumper, except at the 1990 worlds. The jumps were her strength and they made her competitive. You are right that her artistry was not yet developed. Even in the LP, where she started with two mistakes, she landed TWO clean triple lutzes. Very few ladies those days landed even one triple lutz (not counting Midori, of course). Her technical marks were still 5.7, which meant the judges really respected her technical ability.

    At the 1990 worlds she struggled due to fatigue. She was competing in pairs and singles. Not only that, she was traveling between Edmonton (she trained in singles there), San Jose where Rudy & her parents lived, and Southern Cal (their pairs coach lived there). It was too much, and the two falls in the LP at the 1990 worlds sent her a message- pick one.

    About Jill beating her at nationals- it was Jill's best skate ever, and artistically she was much more developed than Kristi. Still, had Kristi skated clean at worlds, who knows what the results would have been?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Actually Kristi WAS a consistent jumper, except at the 1990 worlds. The jumps were her strength and they made her competitive. You are right that her artistry was not yet developed. Even in the LP, where she started with two mistakes, she landed TWO clean triple lutzes. Very few ladies those days landed even one triple lutz (not counting Midori, of course). Her technical marks were still 5.7, which meant the judges really respected her technical ability.

    At the 1990 worlds she struggled due to fatigue. She was competing in pairs and singles. Not only that, she was traveling between Edmonton (she trained in singles there), San Jose where Rudy & her parents lived, and Southern Cal (their pairs coach lived there). It was too much, and the two falls in the LP at the 1990 worlds sent her a message- pick one.

    About Jill beating her at nationals- it was Jill's best skate ever, and artistically she was much more developed than Kristi. Still, had Kristi skated clean at worlds, who knows what the results would have been?
    Midori would have defended her title and not be known as the greatest ladies' skater to win only 1 world title.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    About Jill beating her at nationals- it was Jill's best skate ever, and artistically she was much more developed than Kristi. Still, had Kristi skated clean at worlds, who knows what the results would have been?
    Wonder if Kristi Yamaguchi would have still dropped pairs if she had ended up with Worlds bronze in singles in 1990

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerek View Post
    Wonder if Kristi Yamaguchi would have still dropped pairs if she had ended up with Worlds bronze in singles in 1990
    I think she would have. Her coach, Christy Ness was moving to Canada. I think that was a much bigger influence on her choice than and results.

    My favorite part of 1990 worlds was/is Holly Cook winning bronze. Her reaction was one of the best ever. I should have thought of it when the thread on reactions was going.

  8. #28

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    I like that Holly Cook got rewarded for her figures.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I don't totally agree that the Dushenays went downhill after 1990. They were still very good artistically in 1991, but they skated the same FD (Missing) and won with it. It was in 1992 that they compromised their creativity and selected more traditional music (Sound of music for OD and West side story for FD) and lost their only advantage (creativity) over K&P.
    I don't think they went downhill either. But maybe that's because I didn't follow skating (aside from the Olympics) until 1991-92 season and then when I tried to catch up on what I missed the first thing I got a tape of was the 1991 Worlds free dances. I loved the Duchesnays' programs from both those years, and I would still say that I prefer the 1991 Missing II over the original Missing program from 1990. (It wasn't the same program -- the music cuts were different and so was the choreography.)

    I realize that for those watching in real time, the impact was stronger when the concept was new to competitive free dance.

    I think there was a clear point of view behind the West Side Story free dance that was neither generic skating to rhythm nor just reiterating Robbins's stage choreography -- i.e., I think it's one of the better choreographed programs to WSS on ice that I have seen.

    I also liked their blues OD -- though not as much as Usova/Zhulin's -- and I liked the polka OD as much as I liked any of the other polkas that year. I thought it was more creative than other traditionalist polkas and more successful than the more experimental attempts.

    Opinions can vary -- I just wanted to put mine out there.

    All three of the 1990-92 medalists will always be some of my favorite dance teams of all time.

    Quote Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
    their original Free Dance in 1991, the one performed at Europeans called Reflections (despite the fall on the ending move after the music ended).
    I liked the concept, but I was disappointed by the execution when I finally got a chance to see it on video. Lots of crossovers pulling each other around, very boring choreography for much of the program. And that music requires a lot of subtle nuance to make it work, which was not the Duchesnays' strong point.

  10. #30

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    I think Duchesnay's peak, choreography wise was 1990,especially when they had the crowd at Europeans in Leningrad cheering for them more than for their own skaters.That was a catalyst and it wasn't coincidental that they won the FD twice that season.But it started with Eleanor Rigby and the Parisian crowd cheering uncontrollably.At that point one could only guess that next season they'd surpass U/Z for sure for silver at least.

    Were they better skaters?No, in any way.But this was a different ice dancing era.Choreography,avant-garde concepts,the whole impact of Bolero and how it changed ice dancing were still very strong.If you were a good technician,fast,competent but generic the audience wouldn't cheer,and the audience back then used to cheer as if they were in a rock concert.

    For me,1990 still remains my favourite ice dance year as far as programs are concerned.Maybe because it was the first time I sat and actually watched dance whereas in 1989 I just saw the top three and that was it.So call it nostalgia...

    I think that after Missing I,and I still consider it a superior program to its sequel,for back then it was daring,extremely exciting and even though I don't like the Duchesnay's I'd still consider it one of my favourite FDs,they tried to stretch the boundaries even more with Reflections.It wasn't a bad program,but it wasn't well received at Euros,and I think them and Dean thought they couldn't win them Worlds.

    On the other hand K/P FD that season was my favourite of them,but even at Euros before the doping story it wasn't refined as K/P usually were.It was more them being in panick and trying to do what they though people wanted.Whereas in 1992 they found the perfect balance.
    But what I loved most back in 1990 was U/Z Piazolla FD.It was undermarked,they were caught in the Missing frenzy and were surpassed but it was probably their most stylish and technical program and G/P debut with Zorba the Greek which was really impressive and got me remembering their names from day one.
    Now, watching these programs again after 23 years I can finally understand that K/P and D/D could go either way and that G/P were really really dangerous even back then but I can clearly understand that the Duchesnay's fell in the category I consider " we are good,not brilliant,so let's find something exciting for the fans".

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    I like that Holly Cook got rewarded for her figures.
    She retired after finishing 6th at 1991 U.S. Nationals. Qualifying for major championships was always going to be tough at this juncture. Although Jill Trenary was injured at that stage, she had not yet retired (that would come in December 1991). And then there was the emergence of Tonya Harding, Nancy Kerrigan, Tonia Kwiatkowski, and Nicole Bobek, as well as the continued progress of Kristi Yamaguchi.

    This was the result from 1991 U.S. Nationals:-

    1. Tonya Harding
    2. Kristi Yamaguchi
    3. Nancy Kerrigan
    4. Tonia Kwiatkowski
    5. Tisha Walker
    6. Holly Cook
    7. Kyoko Ina
    8. Nicole Bobek
    Last edited by Maofan7; 02-22-2013 at 07:36 PM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    I like that Holly Cook got rewarded for her figures.
    That was one of the rare instances where a skater in her first worlds actually got rewarded with a high placement in figures (same with Lisa Sargeant, who placed 7th in figures). Everyone else who placed high in the figures segment were already in their 4th or 5th Worlds appearance.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.H.Black View Post
    I think she would have. Her coach, Christy Ness was moving to Canada. I think that was a much bigger influence on her choice than and results.

    My favorite part of 1990 worlds was/is Holly Cook winning bronze. Her reaction was one of the best ever. I should have thought of it when the thread on reactions was going.
    Holly Cook is one of the most down home, what you see is what you get people I have ever encountered. I regret that skating has not as much room for people with her sort of personality today. Well it does, but they seem to be encouraged to not showcase their ordinariness or folksy eccentricity-- either off or on the ice.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maofan7 View Post
    She retired after finishing 6th at 1991 U.S. Nationals. Qualifying for major championships was always going to be tough at this juncture. Although Jill Trenary was injured at that stage, she had not yet retired (that would come in December 1991). And then there was the emergence of Tonya Harding, Nancy Kerrigan, Tonia Kwiatkowski, and Nicole Bobek, as well as the continued progress of Kristi Yamaguchi.

    This was the result from 1991 U.S. Nationals:-

    1. Tonya Harding
    2. Kristi Yamaguchi
    3. Nancy Kerrigan
    4. Tonia Kwiatkowski
    5. Tisha Walker
    6. Holly Cook
    7. Kyoko Ina
    8. Nicole Bobek
    Who is this Tisha Walker, and what became of her?

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Who is this Tisha Walker, and what became of her?
    Accordingly to this article, she now coaches in California (Simi Valley). Same article states that Holly Cook "is married with one child. She lives in Utah where she also works as a coach" (at the South Davis Recreation Center in Bountiful, Utah). She is now known as Holly Cook-Tanner

    Here also is a 1989 article on Tisha Walker and here is Tisha Walker's Free Skate from 1991 U.S. Nationals. She finished 6th at U.S. Nationals in 1992 and 8th in 1993, before retiring
    Last edited by Maofan7; 02-23-2013 at 02:33 AM.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maofan7 View Post
    20th: Anisette Torp-Lind (Denmark)

    Free Skate
    Whoa, she looks and skates a lot like Anita Madsen. Maybe they had the same coach early on in their careers? Interesting...

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maofan7 View Post
    [*]Ekaterina Gordeeva & Sergei Grinkov win their 4th world title. Gordeeva had been having problems with her jumps throughout the season due to body changes (they had been 3rd entering the free skate at Europeans due to a poor SP, but a better LP enabled them to take the European title), and although their Romeo & Juliet (Tchaikovsky) LP was not clean, they did enough to retain their world title. It was their last competition before retiring for the first time. They would make a successful comeback during the 1993/94 season, in which they would win a 2nd Olympic title and a 5th world title.
    Shishkova and Naumov beg to differ.

    I would have loved it if G&G had competed at '94 Worlds. I think they just should have gone and enjoyed it. The pressure was off, they already got Olympic gold for the second time! But I imagine they wanted to stop training and be with their daughter.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by stanhope View Post
    Shishkova and Naumov beg to differ.

    I would have loved it if G&G had competed at '94 Worlds. I think they just should have gone and enjoyed it. The pressure was off, they already got Olympic gold for the second time! But I imagine they wanted to stop training and be with their daughter.
    Ha! Wonder what I was thinking. Oh, the fogs of time

    Thanks for correcting

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by robinhood View Post
    In context, I dunno if the removal of figures was beneficial for the skaters. It led to many top flight skaters with very questionable skating skills and/or jumping technique over the course of the years
    I was delighted to see the back of compulsory figures. I thought they should have been phased out a very long time beforehand. Thanks to compulsories, many of the most talented skaters in history ended up winning far less than they deserved - Janet Lynn, Toller Cranston, Denise Biellmann, etc

    Here is a video featuring the very last school figures ever skated!

    Additional Videos

    Ladies Medal Cermony

    Men's Medal Ceremony

    Profile - Lisa Sargeant

    Free Dance - Final Group
    Last edited by Maofan7; 02-23-2013 at 04:32 AM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maofan7 View Post
    I was delighted to see the back of compulsory figures. I thought they should have been phased out a very long time beforehand. Thanks to compulsories, many of the most talented skaters in history ended up winning far less than they deserved - Janet Lynn, Toller Cranston, Denise Biellmann, etc
    This complaint never ceases to frustrate me. Being skilled in compulsory figures was just as valid a skill as being skilled at freeskating, that's why it was included in the competition (not as some people seem to suggest to frustrate and prohibit talented freeskaters from winning world titles), and why it used to count for 60% of the score. The skill-set required for success at school figures was a different one than that which was required in being a successful freeskater; however, just because those skills aren't as appealing to a mass audience should not diminish the achievements and the aptitude of those who managed to skate figures well. Figures skating as a competitive sport predates television by a half a century and what was valued in terms of the sport through that half century was different than what it became. The sport is now very much a product of television and all the financial concerns and interests which accompany that relationship , but that doesn't mean the sport is a better sport now just because it appeals to a mass audience. Just because figures were not appealing to a television audience is not a reason to dismiss their validity or the merit of those who skated them well.

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