Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 77
  1. #21
    Corgi Wrangler
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Not Wearing Enough Sparkles
    Posts
    6,454
    vCash
    510
    Rep Power
    5546
    Thirty years ago or so, didn't China send some STAGGERINGLY bad pairs skaters to Worlds/Olympics? One of whom was Yao Bin, who used the chance to learn as much as he possibly could to take back to China and help create the Chinese pairs powerhouse? I don't really see what the harm is in allowing "noncompetitive" countries to send a competitor that's "bad", especially to the Olympics-it's not supposed to be about one or two countries steamrolling everyone else. And you never know where the next star might come from if given the exposure.

  2. #22
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    11,012
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    I don't really see what the harm is in allowing "noncompetitive" countries to send a competitor that's "bad", especially to the Olympics-it's not supposed to be about one or two countries steamrolling everyone else. And you never know where the next star might come from if given the exposure.
    I think other sports even have a system in place for this. That's how we get the Sculling Sloth in rowing and Eric the Eel in swimming. Both of whom are excited to bring these sports back to their countries.

  3. #23
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Two-foot skating = BAD
    Posts
    20,463
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Thirty years ago or so, didn't China send some STAGGERINGLY bad pairs skaters to Worlds/Olympics? One of whom was Yao Bin, who used the chance to learn as much as he possibly could to take back to China and help create the Chinese pairs powerhouse? I don't really see what the harm is in allowing "noncompetitive" countries to send a competitor that's "bad", especially to the Olympics-it's not supposed to be about one or two countries steamrolling everyone else. And you never know where the next star might come from if given the exposure.
    That's a very good point. Yao Bin was terrible when he competed (he was the first Chinese pair skater in history, though) but he ended up coaching World and Olympic champions, showing just how much important it is for the ISU to open up and give opportunities for skaters in developing countries to let the sport develop there.

  4. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Montreal
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,201
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    So, the countries that will make it:
    USA, Canada, China, Japan, France, Russia, Italy

    The ones fighting for the last 3 spots:
    Korea, Finland, Ukraine, Germany, the UK, Spain, Sweden, Czech Republic, Israel, AZE, ...

  5. #25

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Lima
    Posts
    1,516
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    378
    Quote Originally Posted by kirkbiggestfan View Post
    So, the countries that will make it:
    USA, Canada, China, Japan, France, Russia, Italy

    The ones fighting for the last 3 spots:
    Korea, Finland, Ukraine, Germany, the UK, Spain, Sweden, Czech Republic, Israel, AZE, ...
    I think Germany is pretty safe IN for the team competition. Overall very decent competitors in all categories. The last 2 spots should go to UKR and GBR which are overall weak but at least they have competitive skaters in all categories. All the other countries lack representation in at least one category, most notoriouly pairs.
    Last edited by SamuraiK; 02-19-2013 at 05:10 PM.

  6. #26
    I <3 Kozuka
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Vancouver/Seattle
    Posts
    19,181
    vCash
    730
    Rep Power
    43796
    I agree about Germany. They'll get lots of points in Pairs, and shouldn't be far behind GBR in Dance! If at all. The only other team listed who are middle-of-the-pack strong in Dance are AZE. KOR will have points mainly from YuNa Kim, FIN from Korpi, ESP from Fernandez, CZE from Brezina, SWE from Majorov and V. Helgesson. GBR might make it, too, since only the Men are extremely weak.

    On the other hand, if the TES minimums are high, and appointed skaters have to meet the minimums, it will be interesting to see which teams will be able to make appointments, as points to qualify teams aren't limited to TES qualified skaters, so the team will qualify, but the skaters whose points were used, can't always skate.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  7. #27

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    523
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kirkbiggestfan View Post
    So, the countries that will make it:
    USA, Canada, China, Japan, France, Russia, Italy
    Assuming Japan can make the technical minimum with their inexperienced pair...

  8. #28

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    29,567
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    42553
    Quote Originally Posted by nlyoung View Post
    Assuming Japan can make the technical minimum with their inexperienced pair...
    Japan should qualify as one of the 10 teams for the SP portion, even if they don't have pairs points, based on the sheer strength of their singles skaters plus Reed/Reed in dance.

    From the qualification system document:
    Each Team must participate in at least 3 disciplines (Ladies/Men/Pair Skating/Ice Dance) of the Figure Skating Team Event. NOCs/ISU Members who according to the procedure as per paragraph 2 above would have qualified for the Figure Skating Team Event but who are unable or unwilling to compose a Team with Skaters/Couples competing in at least 3 disciplines will not be allowed to compete in the Figure Skating Team Event.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  9. #29
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,477
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I hate the reverse-World Standing start order methods being used, yet I see they are using it once again here for every discipline short program/short dance. In a field of ten maximum skaters, don't you think they could have just made the draws random rather than giving the judges reason to boost GOE and PCS based on later skaters?

  10. #30
    I <3 Kozuka
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Vancouver/Seattle
    Posts
    19,181
    vCash
    730
    Rep Power
    43796
    Japan should make it on the strength of their singles scores and with points from the Reeds. Whatever the new pair would earn from GP's and 4C's is gravy, since everyone who finishes in a GP dance or pairs field gets points, and all competitors up to 24th place, three times the number of entries at 4C's this year, get points at Euros/4C's.

    The skaters who earn WS points for the team to qualify neither have to have the minimum TES nor even have to be on the Olympic team. The country doesn't have to qualify for the discipline for the individual events.

    Once the teams qualify after all the WS points are added up, TES minimums limit which individuals/teams can compete. If appointed skaters -- those chosen where the country has qualified for the team event, but has not earned a spot for the discipline -- don't have the minimums, and the minimums apply to them, then JPN can compete in the SD/SP with entries in three disciplines.

    Taken literally, were Takahashi and her new partner to qualify a spot for Sochi at Nebelhorn -- the Pairs field is thin enough for this to be a possibility, but they can't meet the minimums, if minimums don't apply to appointed skaters, then I'm not sure they could be appointed, since JPN qualified a spot, but didn't have qualified skaters.

    If JPN cares about the team event, they should get all of this clarified ahead of time.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 02-19-2013 at 11:31 PM.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  11. #31

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Getting drunk with Athos
    Posts
    5,005
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    33078
    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    I don't really see what the harm is in allowing "noncompetitive" countries to send a competitor that's "bad", especially to the Olympics-it's not supposed to be about one or two countries steamrolling everyone else. And you never know where the next star might come from if given the exposure.
    Well, some standards should be in place to prevent this level of skating from going to Worlds or the Olympics. It is possible to send skaters that are bad enough to be a safety danger to other teams on their warm-up. That said, current standard is skewed the other way, and most likely prevents decent skaters from gaining valuable experience. Hopefully, next ISU congress will vote on bringing back qualifying rounds.

  12. #32
    I <3 Kozuka
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Vancouver/Seattle
    Posts
    19,181
    vCash
    730
    Rep Power
    43796
    Although the Pairs field is weak, I don't think it's so weak that the truly scary teams would qualify at Worlds or Nebelhorn.

    Euros: 15 Pairs
    • 14 of 15 re-made the Euros/4C's TES SP Minimum (20)
    • 13 of 15 re-made the Euros/4C's TES FS Minimum (36)
    • 7 of 15 teams re-made the original Worlds TES SP Minimum (28)
    • 10 of 15 teams re-made the new Worlds TES SP Minimum (24)
    • 9 of 15 teams re-made the original Worlds TES FS Minimum (45)
    • 11 of 15 teams re-made the new Worlds TES FS Minimum (41)


    Of these teams, GER and FRA had one more Pair each than they'll have in London, but GER has a very good chance of getting back three, like they had at Euros, and James/Cipres have a good shot at making Top 10 to earn two for France. RUS should easily retain three, and ITA should easily retain two. I think the numbers will be stable going into Sochi.

    4C's: 7 Pairs (+ 1 WD and only two from CHN)
    • All re-made the Euros/4C's TES Minimums for SP (20) and FS (36)
    • 6 of 7 teams re-made the original Worlds TES SP Minimum (28)
    • All re-made the new Worlds TES SP Minimum (24)
    • All re-made the original and new Worlds TES FS Minimums (45/41)



    Two of those teams are from countries (CAN, CHN) that would have to earn three in London, with Canada having a much better shot than USA. CHN will have to re-earn three, which is going to be tough with an ailing Pang/Tong. The 4C's field might be two down there, plus one from Japan, if they can make whatever minimums are set, if they apply to appointed skaters.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  13. #33

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    29,567
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    42553
    Re-posting from the 2013 Worlds forum:
    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiK View Post
    After the Pairs competition These are the 16 spots already qualified for Sochi [4 more countries can qualify via Nebelhorn Trophy in September]

    Russia - 3
    Canada - 3
    Germany - 2
    China - 2
    France - 2
    United States - 2
    Italy - 2

    After the Men's competition the 24 spots qualified for Sochi are:

    Canada - 3
    Japan - 3
    Kazakshtan - 2
    Spain - 2
    United States - 2
    France - 2
    Czech Republic - 2
    Germany - 1
    China - 1
    Uzbekistan - 1
    Russia - 1
    Sweden - 1
    Belgium - 1
    Austria - 1
    Estonia - 1

    6 remaining spots will be given at Nebelhorn Trophy in September.
    "Twenty-four (24) qualification places for men and ladies each... nineteen (19) qualification places in Ice Dance will be determined after the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2013" [5 countries will vie for the remaining dance spots at Nebelhorn].

    Note: The judges by country draw for the Olympics will take place during Nebelhorn Trophy.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 03-16-2013 at 02:19 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  14. #34
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    9,948
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by danafan View Post
    The Olympic field is already limited due to maximum entries. I really don't see why the minimum score is necessary.
    It may be necessary to eliminate multiple entries from a country that has only one successful skater.

    For instance, Kazakhstan has earned two spots thanks to Denis Ten's performance. So without the mininum score, their second skater, who finished 28th in the SP, would qualify for the Olympics, whereas 5 national champions who beat him at the Worlds would not qualify. He may still qualify instead of them, but at least he has to satisfy some minimal criteria.

    It could have been worse, actually. If Kazakhstan had not sent a second skater to the Worlds, they would have qualified three skaters for the Olympics. So there should be some way of eliminating such anomalies.

    Or the ISU could just take the final qualifiers' scores in each discipline from Nebelhorn and make that the minimum tech score.
    I think that's a good idea.

  15. #35
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    9,948
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Note: The judges by country draw for the Olympics will take place during Nebelhorn Trophy.
    This is what I never understand. Why draw the judges five months in advance and give them the whole season to put their politics in place and hand out presents to each other's skaters at the various events?

  16. #36

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Lima
    Posts
    1,516
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    378
    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    For instance, Kazakhstan has earned two spots thanks to Denis Ten's performance. So without the mininum score, their second skater, who finished 28th in the SP, would qualify for the Olympics, whereas 5 national champions who beat him at the Worlds would not qualify. He may still qualify instead of them, but at least he has to satisfy some minimal criteria.
    The mere fact that Rakimgaliev (2nd KAZ guy) was actually at Worlds means he already has the TES min scores, so unless ISU decides to raise the numbers again (doubt it), he will be at Sochi (he was at Vancouver too).

  17. #37

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Lima
    Posts
    1,516
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    378
    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    This is what I never understand. Why draw the judges five months in advance and give them the whole season to put their politics in place and hand out presents to each other's skaters at the various events?
    I think you just answered yourself

  18. #38

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    29,567
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    42553
    From this new article titled "ISU's Dore talks Olympic team figure skating event": http://www.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news
    ISU negotiations with the International Olympic Committee (IOC), which carefully manages the number of athletes participating in the Games, resulted in a compromise: 10 extra entries for skaters who did not qualify for their country's Olympic figure skating teams ("additional athletes' quota").

    An ice dance team or pair counts as one entry. The 10 "extra" entries will be offered to the 10 countries participating. In order to compete in the team event, a country must field entries in three of the four disciplines.

    "So, if the team that qualified third needs to fill in a fourth discipline, with someone not necessarily qualified to compete at the Olympic Games, it can," Dore said.

    A minimum technical element score (TES), which is yet to be determined, will be set for Olympic entrants, but these additional athletes will not need to post this score. A lower score will be set for them.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  19. #39

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4,727
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    From this new article titled "ISU's Dore talks Olympic team figure skating event": http://www.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news
    Thanks for the link. I can't say that the following surprises me, but it's still disappointing that this is the reason for the unfortunate scheduling of the team event:

    According to Dore, the ISU considered holding the team event at the end of the Games, after figure skating had concluded. NBC, the U.S. television rights holder, wanted to stick with tradition and broadcast the ladies discipline as the final event.

  20. #40
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    31
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    I think other sports even have a system in place for this. That's how we get the Sculling Sloth in rowing and Eric the Eel in swimming. Both of whom are excited to bring these sports back to their countries.
    "Other sports" have qualifying heats. In swimming and athletics/track & field, every country that doesn't have anyone who meets any of the qualifying standards is allowed to enter 1 man and 1 woman. (Usually, they end up in the shortest events - in fact, the men's 100m at London started with a few heats consisting entirely of these runners, with something like two from each race advancing to the "real" competition - but every now and then, some joker country puts somebody in the men's marathon.) If they could have a second ice surface available (or if they didn't have the team competition), ISU could do something along the lines of the old "qualifying round", except that it would be limited to countries that did not otherwise qualify for the event; the top 4 or so would advance to the short program. (Refresh my memory: did worlds ever have a qualifying round after the new scoring system came into place?)

    As for why the minimum qualifying score is necessary for the Olympics, I agree with the "it's to prevent someone who has little business being there riding the coattails of someone who got that country a second/third entry" people. (I also noticed that, if a country does not fill all of its spots, the vacant ones are filled based on Nebelhorn results.)

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •