Qualification System for 2014 SOCHI Olympics Figure Skating, including Team Event

[danceronice]

Thirty years ago or so, didn't China send some STAGGERINGLY bad pairs skaters to Worlds/Olympics? One of whom was Yao Bin, who used the chance to learn as much as he possibly could to take back to China and help create the Chinese pairs powerhouse? I don't really see what the harm is in allowing "noncompetitive" countries to send a competitor that's "bad", especially to the Olympics-it's not supposed to be about one or two countries steamrolling everyone else. And you never know where the next star might come from if given the exposure.

[Skittl1321]

I don't really see what the harm is in allowing "noncompetitive" countries to send a competitor that's "bad", especially to the Olympics-it's not supposed to be about one or two countries steamrolling everyone else. And you never know where the next star might come from if given the exposure.

I think other sports even have a system in place for this. That's how we get the Sculling Sloth in rowing and Eric the Eel in swimming. Both of whom are excited to bring these sports back to their countries.

[Ziggy]

Thirty years ago or so, didn't China send some STAGGERINGLY bad pairs skaters to Worlds/Olympics? One of whom was Yao Bin, who used the chance to learn as much as he possibly could to take back to China and help create the Chinese pairs powerhouse? I don't really see what the harm is in allowing "noncompetitive" countries to send a competitor that's "bad", especially to the Olympics-it's not supposed to be about one or two countries steamrolling everyone else. And you never know where the next star might come from if given the exposure.

That's a very good point. Yao Bin was terrible when he competed (he was the first Chinese pair skater in history, though) but he ended up coaching World and Olympic champions, showing just how much important it is for the ISU to open up and give opportunities for skaters in developing countries to let the sport develop there.

[kirkbiggestfan]

So, the countries that will make it:
USA, Canada, China, Japan, France, Russia, Italy

The ones fighting for the last 3 spots:
Korea, Finland, Ukraine, Germany, the UK, Spain, Sweden, Czech Republic, Israel, AZE, ...

[SamuraiK]

So, the countries that will make it:
USA, Canada, China, Japan, France, Russia, Italy

The ones fighting for the last 3 spots:
Korea, Finland, Ukraine, Germany, the UK, Spain, Sweden, Czech Republic, Israel, AZE, ...

I think Germany is pretty safe IN for the team competition. Overall very decent competitors in all categories. The last 2 spots should go to UKR and GBR which are overall weak but at least they have competitive skaters in all categories. All the other countries lack representation in at least one category, most notoriouly pairs.

[kwanfan1818]

I agree about Germany. They'll get lots of points in Pairs, and shouldn't be far behind GBR in Dance! If at all. The only other team listed who are middle-of-the-pack strong in Dance are AZE. KOR will have points mainly from YuNa Kim, FIN from Korpi, ESP from Fernandez, CZE from Brezina, SWE from Majorov and V. Helgesson. GBR might make it, too, since only the Men are extremely weak.

On the other hand, if the TES minimums are high, and appointed skaters have to meet the minimums, it will be interesting to see which teams will be able to make appointments, as points to qualify teams aren't limited to TES qualified skaters, so the team will qualify, but the skaters whose points were used, can't always skate.

[nlyoung]

So, the countries that will make it:
USA, Canada, China, Japan, France, Russia, Italy

Assuming Japan can make the technical minimum with their inexperienced pair...

[Sylvia]

Assuming Japan can make the technical minimum with their inexperienced pair...

Japan should qualify as one of the 10 teams for the SP portion, even if they don't have pairs points, based on the sheer strength of their singles skaters plus Reed/Reed in dance.

From the qualification system document:

Each Team must participate in at least 3 disciplines (Ladies/Men/Pair Skating/Ice Dance) of the Figure Skating Team Event. NOCs/ISU Members who according to the procedure as per paragraph 2 above would have qualified for the Figure Skating Team Event but who are unable or unwilling to compose a Team with Skaters/Couples competing in at least 3 disciplines will not be allowed to compete in the Figure Skating Team Event.

[Tony Wheeler]

I hate the reverse-World Standing start order methods being used, yet I see they are using it once again here for every discipline short program/short dance. In a field of ten maximum skaters, don't you think they could have just made the draws random rather than giving the judges reason to boost GOE and PCS based on later skaters?

[kwanfan1818]

Japan should make it on the strength of their singles scores and with points from the Reeds. Whatever the new pair would earn from GP's and 4C's is gravy, since everyone who finishes in a GP dance or pairs field gets points, and all competitors up to 24th place, three times the number of entries at 4C's this year, get points at Euros/4C's.

The skaters who earn WS points for the team to qualify neither have to have the minimum TES nor even have to be on the Olympic team. The country doesn't have to qualify for the discipline for the individual events.

Once the teams qualify after all the WS points are added up, TES minimums limit which individuals/teams can compete. If appointed skaters -- those chosen where the country has qualified for the team event, but has not earned a spot for the discipline -- don't have the minimums, and the minimums apply to them, then JPN can compete in the SD/SP with entries in three disciplines.

Taken literally, were Takahashi and her new partner to qualify a spot for Sochi at Nebelhorn -- the Pairs field is thin enough for this to be a possibility, but they can't meet the minimums, if minimums don't apply to appointed skaters, then I'm not sure they could be appointed, since JPN qualified a spot, but didn't have qualified skaters.

If JPN cares about the team event, they should get all of this clarified ahead of time.

[ioana]

I don't really see what the harm is in allowing "noncompetitive" countries to send a competitor that's "bad", especially to the Olympics-it's not supposed to be about one or two countries steamrolling everyone else. And you never know where the next star might come from if given the exposure.

Well, some standards should be in place to prevent this level of skating from going to Worlds or the Olympics. It is possible to send skaters that are bad enough to be a safety danger to other teams on their warm-up. That said, current standard is skewed the other way, and most likely prevents decent skaters from gaining valuable experience. Hopefully, next ISU congress will vote on bringing back qualifying rounds.

[kwanfan1818]

Although the Pairs field is weak, I don't think it's so weak that the truly scary teams would qualify at Worlds or Nebelhorn.

Euros: 15 Pairs

• 14 of 15 re-made the Euros/4C's TES SP Minimum (20)
• 13 of 15 re-made the Euros/4C's TES FS Minimum (36)
• 7 of 15 teams re-made the original Worlds TES SP Minimum (28)
• 10 of 15 teams re-made the new Worlds TES SP Minimum (24)
• 9 of 15 teams re-made the original Worlds TES FS Minimum (45)
• 11 of 15 teams re-made the new Worlds TES FS Minimum (41)

Of these teams, GER and FRA had one more Pair each than they'll have in London, but GER has a very good chance of getting back three, like they had at Euros, and James/Cipres have a good shot at making Top 10 to earn two for France. RUS should easily retain three, and ITA should easily retain two. I think the numbers will be stable going into Sochi.

4C's: 7 Pairs (+ 1 WD and only two from CHN)

• All re-made the Euros/4C's TES Minimums for SP (20) and FS (36)
• 6 of 7 teams re-made the original Worlds TES SP Minimum (28)
• All re-made the new Worlds TES SP Minimum (24)
• All re-made the original and new Worlds TES FS Minimums (45/41)

Two of those teams are from countries (CAN, CHN) that would have to earn three in London, with Canada having a much better shot than USA. CHN will have to re-earn three, which is going to be tough with an ailing Pang/Tong. The 4C's field might be two down there, plus one from Japan, if they can make whatever minimums are set, if they apply to appointed skaters.

[Sylvia]

Re-posting from the 2013 Worlds forum:

After the Pairs competition These are the 16 spots already qualified for Sochi [4 more countries can qualify via Nebelhorn Trophy in September]

Russia - 3
Canada - 3
Germany - 2
China - 2
France - 2
United States - 2
Italy - 2

After the Men's competition the 24 spots qualified for Sochi are:

Canada - 3
Japan - 3
Kazakshtan - 2
Spain - 2
United States - 2
France - 2
Czech Republic - 2
Germany - 1
China - 1
Uzbekistan - 1
Russia - 1
Sweden - 1
Belgium - 1
Austria - 1
Estonia - 1

6 remaining spots will be given at Nebelhorn Trophy in September.

"Twenty-four (24) qualification places for men and ladies each... nineteen (19) qualification places in Ice Dance will be determined after the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2013" [5 countries will vie for the remaining dance spots at Nebelhorn].

Note: The judges by country draw for the Olympics will take place during Nebelhorn Trophy.

[Asli]

The Olympic field is already limited due to maximum entries. I really don't see why the minimum score is necessary.

It may be necessary to eliminate multiple entries from a country that has only one successful skater.

For instance, Kazakhstan has earned two spots thanks to Denis Ten's performance. So without the mininum score, their second skater, who finished 28th in the SP, would qualify for the Olympics, whereas 5 national champions who beat him at the Worlds would not qualify. He may still qualify instead of them, but at least he has to satisfy some minimal criteria.

It could have been worse, actually. If Kazakhstan had not sent a second skater to the Worlds, they would have qualified three skaters for the Olympics. So there should be some way of eliminating such anomalies.

Or the ISU could just take the final qualifiers' scores in each discipline from Nebelhorn and make that the minimum tech score.

I think that's a good idea.

[Asli]

Note: The judges by country draw for the Olympics will take place during Nebelhorn Trophy.

This is what I never understand. Why draw the judges five months in advance and give them the whole season to put their politics in place and hand out presents to each other's skaters at the various events?

[SamuraiK]

For instance, Kazakhstan has earned two spots thanks to Denis Ten's performance. So without the mininum score, their second skater, who finished 28th in the SP, would qualify for the Olympics, whereas 5 national champions who beat him at the Worlds would not qualify. He may still qualify instead of them, but at least he has to satisfy some minimal criteria.

The mere fact that Rakimgaliev (2nd KAZ guy) was actually at Worlds means he already has the TES min scores, so unless ISU decides to raise the numbers again (doubt it), he will be at Sochi (he was at Vancouver too).

[SamuraiK]

This is what I never understand. Why draw the judges five months in advance and give them the whole season to put their politics in place and hand out presents to each other's skaters at the various events?

I think you just answered yourself

[Sylvia]

From this new article titled "ISU's Dore talks Olympic team figure skating event": http://www.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news

ISU negotiations with the International Olympic Committee (IOC), which carefully manages the number of athletes participating in the Games, resulted in a compromise: 10 extra entries for skaters who did not qualify for their country's Olympic figure skating teams ("additional athletes' quota").

An ice dance team or pair counts as one entry. The 10 "extra" entries will be offered to the 10 countries participating. In order to compete in the team event, a country must field entries in three of the four disciplines.

"So, if the team that qualified third needs to fill in a fourth discipline, with someone not necessarily qualified to compete at the Olympic Games, it can," Dore said.

A minimum technical element score (TES), which is yet to be determined, will be set for Olympic entrants, but these additional athletes will not need to post this score. A lower score will be set for them.

[Zemgirl]

From this new article titled "ISU's Dore talks Olympic team figure skating event": http://www.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news

Thanks for the link. I can't say that the following surprises me, but it's still disappointing that this is the reason for the unfortunate scheduling of the team event:

According to Dore, the ISU considered holding the team event at the end of the Games, after figure skating had concluded. NBC, the U.S. television rights holder, wanted to stick with tradition and broadcast the ladies discipline as the final event.

[That Don Guy]

I think other sports even have a system in place for this. That's how we get the Sculling Sloth in rowing and Eric the Eel in swimming. Both of whom are excited to bring these sports back to their countries.

"Other sports" have qualifying heats. In swimming and athletics/track & field, every country that doesn't have anyone who meets any of the qualifying standards is allowed to enter 1 man and 1 woman. (Usually, they end up in the shortest events - in fact, the men's 100m at London started with a few heats consisting entirely of these runners, with something like two from each race advancing to the "real" competition - but every now and then, some joker country puts somebody in the men's marathon.) If they could have a second ice surface available (or if they didn't have the team competition), ISU could do something along the lines of the old "qualifying round", except that it would be limited to countries that did not otherwise qualify for the event; the top 4 or so would advance to the short program. (Refresh my memory: did worlds ever have a qualifying round after the new scoring system came into place?)

As for why the minimum qualifying score is necessary for the Olympics, I agree with the "it's to prevent someone who has little business being there riding the coattails of someone who got that country a second/third entry" people. (I also noticed that, if a country does not fill all of its spots, the vacant ones are filled based on Nebelhorn results.)