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  1. #1
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    Challenge type event for US Nationals qualification?

    So having an event like Challenge in the US was being discussed in another thread, and I thought I'd make a separate thread for it.

    Obviously there are things to keep in mind like higher travel expenses, but after listening to other people's ideas here's what I came up with:

    The event could either take place at one location and move sections each year (in pacs in 2013, mids in 2014, easterns 2015 etc) or have the different events at different sections each year (men & ladies in pacs, pairs in mids, dance in easterns. Rotating with years just like the aforementioned idea).

    The top 12 finishers in pairs and dance would advance to nationals. Singles is a little trickier because there are more of them, which would require groups. My idea is 3 groups of 12 with the top 4 in each advancing to nationals. Each group of 12 would be seeded. It would contain a 1st place finisher from a region in each section, for instance one from SWP, one from UGL, and one from SA. 2nd place finishers from a different region than the 1st place finishers, with one coming from each section, so for this example we'll say one from CP, EGL, and NE regional. The third place finishers would then come from the remaining region in each section, so NWP, SW, & NA. 4th place finishers would be taken from the same region as the 1st place groups, SWP, UGL, and SA.
    Repeat this formula for the other two groups. Any skater who has a bye past regionals may select whichever group they want to join. Said groups would be made immediately following the final regional event, and the skater with the bye can then look at the groups and decide "Hm, group A looks easiest, I will join group A". Skaters who earn 1st or 2nd in their respective group would then skate in the final warm-up for the Nationals SP in Novice and Junior. In the event that someone has a bye to nationals, the lowest scoring 2nd place skater would be bumped into the middle warm-up. Pairs and Dance would warm-up in reverse order at nationals, with places 1-4 from "Challenge" being in the final warm-up.

    To me, this would make for the most fair version of sectionals and while it might not stop people from hopping regions, it'd make hopping sections useless. It's a bit complicated, I know, but the current formula allows weaker skaters to make it to nationals based only on where they're from.




    Side Note: I'd also like Senior SP warm-ups at nationals to be seeded. The 1-6 skaters from last year would skate in the final warm-up, the second to last warm-up would be made up of anyone else with a bye to nationals (Due to conflicting GP, JGPF, or Senior GPF), next would be the skaters who were 1st and 2nd in their groups at "challenge", and finally the 3rd & 4th place finishers at "challenge" would skate in the first warm-up.


    Opinions? Different ideas? Always open to constructive criticism

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by johndockley92 View Post
    Side Note: I'd also like Senior SP warm-ups at nationals to be seeded. The 1-6 skaters from last year would skate in the final warm-up, the second to last warm-up would be made up of anyone else with a bye to nationals (Due to conflicting GP, JGPF, or Senior GPF), next would be the skaters who were 1st and 2nd in their groups at "challenge", and finally the 3rd & 4th place finishers at "challenge" would skate in the first warm-up.
    Some interesting ideas in your post, but I don't like this one. I like that the SP is completely unseeded; anyone who qualified can skate in any of the warm-ups. I think it allows for lesser-known skaters who skate a fantastic short program to break out and get noticed. PCS scores are never as high in the early warm-ups in a seeded competition, even if the program is great (like Angela Wang's FS at 2012 nationals).

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    Quote Originally Posted by johndockley92 View Post
    Side Note: I'd also like Senior SP warm-ups at nationals to be seeded. The 1-6 skaters from last year would skate in the final warm-up, the second to last warm-up would be made up of anyone else with a bye to nationals (Due to conflicting GP, JGPF, or Senior GPF), next would be the skaters who were 1st and 2nd in their groups at "challenge", and finally the 3rd & 4th place finishers at "challenge" would skate in the first warm-up.
    At US Nationals this year, the draw for the Senior SP's was seeded for the returning top 5 skaters from the previous Nationals. Not exactly as you described, but it was something new for the 2013 event and I thought it was a pretty good compromise.

    2720 Draws for Initial Starting Orders – Singles, Pairs and Ice Dance
    2721 At the U.S. Figure Skating Championships only, the championship (senior) ladies, men’s and pairs short program and championship (senior) short dance events will be drawn in two subgroups:
    A. The skaters who receive automatic invitations (see rule 2517) will draw randomly from the first subgroup to skate within the last two warm-up groups;
    B. The remaining competitors will draw randomly from the second subgroup to skate in the remaining spots, including any spots remaining in the last two warm-up groups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mgobluegirl View Post
    Some interesting ideas in your post, but I don't like this one. I like that the SP is completely unseeded; anyone who qualified can skate in any of the warm-ups. I think it allows for lesser-known skaters who skate a fantastic short program to break out and get noticed. PCS scores are never as high in the early warm-ups in a seeded competition, even if the program is great (like Angela Wang's FS at 2012 nationals).
    Agreed.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

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    I can't imagine a club securing enough ice time to host something like this. Just juvenile through seniors ladies seems like it would take all week!

    I also really do think the travel burden would be too high.

    And I know the skaters with byes won't be there but to some extent it just seems like an open nationals. So why have two events? Or are you saying regionals to qualify for this, but no sectionals?

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    ^^ this replaces sectionals, so just regionals and then this. If club getting enough ice would be a problem, it'd be easily fixed by having the different disciplines in different sections.

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