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  1. #141
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    How many of us live in a state where we're always on the edge of someone breaking into our house? Apparently that's the condition that a certain segment of the African population live with. It's so easy to judge how differently we would've react, but no one knows until you're faced with the situation.

    The information that have leaked out in the past few days painted a picture of an abusive guy that wanted to off his girlfriend. I don't buy that picture anymore. I definitely want to hear more concrete evidence of what happened that night.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    The challenge for his defense team is that the jury is likely to think like the rest of us, and not buy his story at all, thinking that if it were them, they would realize immediately that she wasn't in bed and conclude she was in the bathroom, and that they would have called out to her, and that they would not have just started firing through a bathroom door like that.
    There is no jury trial in South Africa. Don't know if that will hurt or help him.
    3539 and counting.

    Slightly Wounding Banana list cont: MacMadame.

  3. #143
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    ohhh didn't know that - so it's just up to a judge to rule? Or is there a panel?

    That might actually help the defense, if all they need to do is cast doubt on the prosecution's case. Less likely to be emotional responses as one might expect from a jury.

    Mind you, the court of public opinion could have a big effect too - if the public thinks he did it deliberately, there will be pressure to convict him, no? He's apparently hired an expert PR person, which is normal just for dealing with media requests, but there could certainly be more to that move if moving public opinion is going to be important.

    One thing that has struck me - if indeed it was an honest mistake, how horrible not to be able to go to your girlfriend's funeral or share in her mourning.

  4. #144

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    I used to work for a South African-owned company; most of the employees were South African, and they stated that protective, fortress-like fences, guard dogs, and firearms are considered a requirement as home invasions, robbery, murder, and kidnapping are common. People are not safe in their homes and must always be alert for possible intrusion in South Africa. It usually wasn't just one person invading the home, either, it was usually several people, and they were often very organized and armed.

    One thing we do not know is what the South African police force is like; are they corrupt? The dashcams in Russian cars pointed out to me that in many places of the world, the police cannot be trusted; if corruption was endemic within the South African police force, then they might have taken Pistorius in and pressed charges in hopes of extorting money from him or the family. I would also like more information about the supposed previous domestic incidents.

    I haven't made up my mind on this case, there are a lot of questions that need to be answered before I'm going to believe he is guilty or innocent.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    ohhh didn't know that - so it's just up to a judge to rule? Or is there a panel?
    I don't know the answer to that.
    3539 and counting.

    Slightly Wounding Banana list cont: MacMadame.

  6. #146
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    CNN or CBC (can't remember which) said this morning that it would be a panel of 3 .. a judge sitting and two assessors – usually magistrates or retired magistrates.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Just realizing I got the order wrong - he says he woke to a noise and headed to the bathroom thinking it was an intruder, shot through the door and then shouted to Reeva to call the police, only then realizing she wasn't in bed.
    I'd find his story more believable if he had just said that he'd forgotten she was spending the night. Here he's essentially precluding that type of defense.

    Also, considering that she didn't die until sometime later, it's pretty odd that he shot through the door multiple times without verbal feedback from her that she was in the bathroom rather than in bed. No scream, moan, nothing, from her?

    As in, "Hey Reeva, call the police, there's someone in the bathroom!"

    "You idiot, it's ME in the bathroom!"

  8. #148
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    He appears to be saying at the end of the transcript that Reeva was in bed when he got up to go to the balcony, but while he was there, she got up and went to the bathroom. He didn't see her get up. So he thought he she was still in bed. Still, there are discrepancies between his account of an early quiet night going to bed at 10 pm and the earlier reports that had neighbors calling about a loud argument and the cops arriving at midnight.

    I read this in one of the articles about this incident:

    "In a message posted on Twitter on 27 November last year, Pistorius wrote: "Nothing like getting home to hear the washing machine on and thinking its an intruder to go into full combat recon mode into the pantry!"" http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...iends-shooting
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    He appears to be saying at the end of the transcript that Reeva was in bed when he got up to go to the balcony, but while he was there, she got up and went to the bathroom.
    I'm still finding it a little hard to believe that it wouldn't occur to him that the person in his bathroom could be his girlfriend, even if he allegedy did not hear her. Also, if he's as vigilant about protecting his home as he wants us to believe, it's strange that he leaves the balcony doors open at night.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post
    Also, considering that she didn't die until sometime later, it's pretty odd that he shot through the door multiple times without verbal feedback from her that she was in the bathroom rather than in bed. No scream, moan, nothing, from her?
    What if the first bullet hit her in the head and she immediately became unconscious? Also, I'd imagine it was a fast round of four bullets that were fired, so there wasn't time to hear the victim moaned if there was any sound from the victim.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    I'd imagine it was a fast round of four bullets that were fired, so there wasn't time to hear the victim moaned if there was any sound from the victim.
    Why assume it was a fast round of bullets? It's just as likely that it took Oscar a few minutes to fire them.

    Since the victim apparently was apparenty shot through her hand, into her head, she was probably attempting to protect her head. That implies that she was shot somewhere else in her body prior to being shot in the hand and head, which limits the theory that she was immediately knocked unconscious. Again, no scream?

  12. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post
    Why assume it was a fast round of bullets? It's just as likely that it took Oscar a few minutes to fire them.

    Since the victim apparently was apparenty shot through her hand, into her head, she was probably attempting to protect her head. That implies that she was shot somewhere else in her body prior to being shot in the hand and head, which limits the theory that she was immediately knocked unconscious. Again, no scream?
    I think there's a lot of speculation at this point, based on incomplete and sometimes incorrect information. We can't assume that the shots were fired quickly, but there's no reason to assume otherwise, either (the "several minutes" possibility doesn't seem all that likely to me, but who knows?). Some of the evidence is probably still being tested. I don't see a problem with speculating about the possible sequence of events, but it should be done based on the understanding that there are still some unknowns and that not all the details have been made public.

  13. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    Who on earth would hear a noise in the bathroom and automatically think it is an intruder without even checking if his girlfriend is lying right beside him? It takes a split second to reach out a hand, even if it is pitch dark. He was composed enough to put on his two prostethic legs and to take the gun. Why wouldn't he make sure it wasn't his girlfriend before shooting through a closed door?
    If he was really worried and scared of a break in, and had just woken up, it's understandable that he would panic and do something, like shoot the supposed intruder. People do react differently to different situations, so you can't generalize. According to Pistorius he did not put on his prosthetic legs. The prosecution said that he did (based on the story I read on cnn.com). I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because no one actually saw him do it. Let the courts decide whether he was guilty of murder or if it was a tragic mistake.

  14. #154
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    I can see there being no screams while she was being shot, but two other points stand out to me - he says he called out when still in the bedroom, apparently telling the intruder to get out and calling for Reeva. Even if the bathroom was tucked away in a corner with the door closed, surely in the middle of the night in a residential neighbourhood, she would have responded and he would have heard it. Then again, I guess it's possible that if she heard him yelling at an intruder, she thought it best to stay hidden quietly in the bathroom. She might have imagined the intruder had come in through the patio or bedroom door, and that's where the altercation was taking place, so she took cover - perhaps crouching or hiding her head in fear.

    Secondly, he also said he heard a noise in the bathroom as he approached, and that's why he started shooting. If she was indeed under the impression that there was an intruder, she might have thought it best to stay quiet in the bathroom and hope that the intruder never found her.

    Another point in his account that jumps out at me is that he says several times that he was too scared to turn on a light. Perhaps he thought he could sneak up on an intruder or have some advantage in the dark, but he says specifically that he was scared - so why didn't he turn on a light?

  15. #155

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    Few of the points offered in his affadavit are credible, in my opinion. Surely other women -- even Reeva herself -- have spent the night at his house before. And surely, on more than one occasion, more than one of these women have gotten up to use the washroom, get a drink from the kitchen, etc. And yet, they are all alive. So there was something very different about the situation with this woman on this night. If I were the prosecutor, I'd be contacting every ex-girlfriend and interviewing her about how many times she stayed over and how many times she might have gotten up in the night.

    Even if it's true that he believed in good faith that he was acting in his and Reeva's best interest, his interpretation of the events flies in the face of all logic and makes him delusional and dangerous. I'm not sure I see the case for premeditation but I suspect (and have read) this could be a legal tactic to get a guilty plea for a reduced charge.
    Last edited by Cruella; 02-19-2013 at 07:40 PM.

  16. #156

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    Maybe that "oh I am so scared" thing is what happened but then he is stupid with guns. Anyone I know with a gun and sense has a pre-developed plan about how to use a gun in the house with safe words and escape routes so you know where all the inhabitants are before you start shooting.
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  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Just realizing I got the order wrong - he says he woke to a noise and headed to the bathroom thinking it was an intruder, shot through the door and then shouted to Reeva to call the police, only then realizing she wasn't in bed. He says he then bashed open the door with the cricket bat and found her.
    That would require putting his legs on, no? Unless he lived in a Paris-apartment-sized suite and could hop off his bed right onto the toilet. Given his wealth, I find that very unlikely.

    I also find it very unlikely that he would "head to the bathroom" without his legs on. He'd be a sitting duck crawling on the floor once he ran out of rounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    That means don't go to the bathroom in the middle of the night lest your significant other shoots you. Wow, I've had so many narrow escapes.
    My fiancé has had SO many narrow escapes. Multiple times a night.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    I read this in one of the articles about this incident:

    "In a message posted on Twitter on 27 November last year, Pistorius wrote: "Nothing like getting home to hear the washing machine on and thinking its an intruder to go into full combat recon mode into the pantry!"" http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...iends-shooting
    Not so funny now, huh?

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiery View Post

    One thing we do not know is what the South African police force is like; are they corrupt? The dashcams in Russian cars pointed out to me that in many places of the world, the police cannot be trusted; if corruption was endemic within the South African police force, then they might have taken Pistorius in and pressed charges in hopes of extorting money from him or the family.
    OTT but that explains the proliferation of the Russian meteorite videos. Everyone and their mother has a dash cam.
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  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    That would require putting his legs on, no? Unless he lived in a Paris-apartment-sized suite and could hop off his bed right onto the toilet. Given his wealth, I find that very unlikely.

    I also find it very unlikely that he would "head to the bathroom" without his legs on. He'd be a sitting duck crawling on the floor once he ran out of rounds.
    This will likely be a key point - how mobile is he without his legs? He might be surprisingly mobile, keeping in mind that he's also very athletic.

    I suspect analyzing the angles of the bullet holes in the bathroom door will tell prosecutors something - if he was at a lower angle. In addition, if they can discern if he was shooting low as though at someone who is sitting down or crouching, or if he was shooting high as though at someone hiding behind the door.

    And from that, I wonder how much of the evidence was destroyed when he smashed in the door with the cricket bat, and if that was deliberate.

    Not so funny now, huh?
    That tweet actually supports his contention that he honestly thought there was a threat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    This will likely be a key point - how mobile is he without his legs? He might be surprisingly mobile, keeping in mind that he's also very athletic.

    I suspect analyzing the angles of the bullet holes in the bathroom door will tell prosecutors something
    For those who work in forensics, how long does it take to analyze a scene and come to the conclusion of pre-meditated murder? It seems like he was charged immediately whereas TV shows tell us they need at least a day or two to analyze blood spatter, bullet trajectory, and comb the scenes for DNA.

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