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  1. #441
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    Shorts and a tee certainly could be a full outfit.

    These could be used as pj's but for instance, if these were denim white shorts, I doubt that's what most people wear to bed. Most people also do not bring two cell phones into the bathroom with them in the middle of the night. If Reeva's outfit was something obviously worn outside of bed AND combined with the two cell phones, this either indicates rather atypical behavior or some serious holes in Oscar's defense.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  2. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    As for the phones, it is a bit weird to bring two to the bathroom, but then again maybe it isn't. Many people today are obsessive about checking their phones
    Or they're like me and sometimes grab a cell phone on the way to the bathroom in the middle of the night to use as a nightlight. I don't want to trip over the dog. I've also done that when I've stayed in places that aren't terribly familiar to me.

    I don't think there is a--if you will excuse the expression--smoking gun in the case so much as there is an accumulation of small pieces of evidence that work against Oscar. Reeva could have slept in shorts and T-shirt, could have taken a phone or two into the bathroom at night so she could check her text messages, could have locked the door out of habit or shyness, etc. The screaming that was heard could have been Oscar after the shooting and not Reeva before the shooting, and the neighbors are just mixed up. Oscar's rather strange behavior after the shooting could have been confusion and emotional upset--or the security guard and police could be confused. And so on. Stuff happens all the time that doesn't make sense or doesn't fit into what other people consider normal behavior.

    I'm also not sure why people would think judges are any less likely to be swayed by emotion than juries. Yes, juries are made up of lay people who don't have the experience or training of judges; OTOH, leaving it up to the judge means leaving everything in the hands of a single person. And judges are just as human as anyone else. Some of them are just plain nuts. The judge in this particular case is reputed to be very good; that doesn't mean they all are.

    I think there are pros and cons to both systems. If both of them didn't work about as well as can be expected, then I doubt either system would have lasted as long as they have.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  3. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Or they're like me and sometimes grab a cell phone on the way to the bathroom in the middle of the night to use as a nightlight. I don't want to trip over the dog. I've also done that when I've stayed in places that aren't terribly familiar to me.
    How about two cell phones? All the things you listed are possible but what about Occam's razor? The one simple thing that would explain it all would be that she was ready to leave, felt threatened and tried to isolate herself from Oscar/call for help.

    I wonder if Oscar was Reeva's first boyfriend ever (I doubt it). If not, could an old boyfriend be brought in to testify to Reeva's habit to sleep in street clothes and to hole up in the bathroom with two cell phones in the middle of the night? Or anyone who'd shared a house with her recently?

    Or were these brand new, Oscar-related habits that she's never practiced before? Or is it a unique instance that occurred on the night she happened to be killed and all these coincidences were piled up so unfortunately?

    I have night lights all around my house, along the hallways, bathrooms, etc. Did Oscar? Would someone who was so concerned with security leave the house pitch black at night?
    Last edited by IceAlisa; 04-18-2014 at 04:16 AM.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  4. #444

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    I havent been following all of this story so I might have missed it - but I am curious - if he was so paranoid about security and so worried about burglars [even in a gated community - which means private security, doesnt it?] - why didnt he install a high tech burglar alarm? He clearly had the money.

  5. #445

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    Apparently the pathologist Pistorius hired is refusing to testify. Rumor is because his findings do not support Pistorius's case. The prosecution is poking hole after hole in his story.

  6. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    How about two cell phones?
    As has been pointed out already, there are other possibilities for that. But even so--what about it? Why would it be significant that Reeva took TWO phones into the bathroom with her--if, in fact, she did? Why would she? So she could make twice as many phone calls at the same time? Would it be less suspicious if they had found only ONE cell phone in the bathroom?

    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    All the things you listed are possible but what about Occam's razor?
    I'm not sure what part of this sentence was not clear, so I will reiterate:

    I don't think there is a--if you will excuse the expression--smoking gun in the case so much as there is an accumulation of small pieces of evidence that work against Oscar.

    But that was me saying that there are a lot of things that work against Oscar on this, even if there is another explanation for some of them individually. A lot of things could be coincidental, as many things are, and people are far too inclined to dismiss coincidence as unlikely when it is, in fact, likely. I think it's likely that some of the things that we are taking as evidence are coincidence. The question is more a matter of when many becomes too many. I think there are too many small pieces of evidence against Oscar and I would convict his weepy ass myself, but I also think there is room for some to see reasonable doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    I have night lights all around my house, along the hallways, bathrooms, etc. Did Oscar? Would someone who was so concerned with security leave the house pitch black at night?
    If Oscar had had night lights all over his house, I suspect the police would have made a note of it, as it would significantly contradict Oscar's story. Ergo, I would say no, he did not.

    There are people who think that nightlights just make it easier for burglars and other criminals to get around the house. Paranoia take multiple forms.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  7. #447
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    As has been pointed out already, there are other possibilities for that. But even so--what about it? Why would it be significant that Reeva took TWO phones into the bathroom with her--if, in fact, she did? Why would she? So she could make twice as many phone calls at the same time? Would it be less suspicious if they had found only ONE cell phone in the bathroom?
    That's a very good point. I always take my phone to the bathroom with me at night if I wake up, as I like to check to see if anything has come in. I don't own two phones. If I did, presumably they are different, and I'd like to check the messages on both of them. So one phone or ten phones- it's all the same. Either she was hoping to calling for help, or playing Candy Crush while going the bathroom.

    But if you were frantically hiding to call for help- it seems you'd be less likely to take the time to grab both phones, unless they were neatly stacked one on top of each other.

    There are people who think that nightlights just make it easier for burglars and other criminals to get around the house.
    I've heard this from quite a few people.
    And that outdoor lighting just makes it easier for them to see to break in, where if your house is dark, they can't see what they are doing and are less likely to target you (as a flashlight on a dark house would cause suspicion.)

    I know my husband has trained me that if I hear noises in the middle of the night and want to investigate I should NOT turn the lights on- as that just means my eyes will not be adjusted and put me in a vulnerable position. I'm to use a flashlight instead.

    I think there are too many small pieces of evidence against Oscar and I would convict his weepy ass myself, but I also think there is room for some to see reasonable doubt.
    This is why I am glad I am not a judge, and probably will never be picked to serve on a jury. I can't even make up my mind on what I want for lunch. I could never make a decision on a matter of this importance.

  8. #448

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    [QUOTE=Skittl1321;4242425]





    I know my husband has trained me that if I hear noises in the middle of the night and want to investigate I should NOT turn the lights on- as that just means my eyes will not be adjusted and put me in a vulnerable position. I'm to use a flashlight instead.


    We live in a quiet, nice, neighbourhood in a low crime city. There are some multi-million dollar homes in the neighbourhood - especially those that back onto the lake. About a month ago the neighbours who live directly behind us were killed in the middle of the night. This couple were in their mid 50's, apparently nothing in their lifestyle was high risk, and there were no domestic issues. Their home was nice and well-kept - but nothing like some of the homes a few blocks away.
    The police spent about an hour with me, asking questions and seeing what vantage point we had for observing their home. The officers kept their cards pretty close to their chests, but I gathered this was a random home selected for burglary, the house was cased, the thieves believed the people were away and surprised to find them home. Sadly, a terrible reaction.

    One thing the officers really stressed to me is that often thieves will knock on the door in an attempt to establish if anyone is home. It was their opinion that given a choice, thieves would prefer a home they can enter and rob without encountering anybody. He said, if you get a knock at the door or something else unexpected, do not do nothing. Neither should you go to the door. He suggested turn on a light, close a drape, do something to indicate the home is not vacant. That was very contrary to what my natural reaction would be.

    Skitti's point also seems very valid - if they are in - do not give them any help in negotiating around.
    pug lover

  9. #449
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    Oh gosh, that's awful puglover!

    I have done something like that in the middle of the night when I heard noises in the backyard- I flashed the outdoor lights quickly a few times. Probably confused a racoon. Not sure what I would do if someone was at the front door- though I guess if I knew they were still outside, flashing an interior light would work.

    (I have a small flashlight on my bedside table, but DH keeps a large one that can be used as a club. Although he is not as anti-gun as I am, even he won't keep a gun near the bed: too many people have shot family members because they wake up groggy!)

  10. #450

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    Yes, somewhat unsettling to be so close to home. About 2 weeks before this awful tragedy, my husband answered the door to a youngish man offering to remove the snow on our driveway for money. This is quite unusual and he did not look like a neighbourhood teen trying to earn extra money - in fact my husband said he did not look like he was local (not sure how he made that assessment). Both my husband and I are able bodied and more then capable of removing our own snow but my husband is compassionate and agreed to pay him $20.00 to do the driveway as he thought the guy might be "down on his luck". When he finished, my husband invited him out of the cold into the front foyer while he paid him. The guy then stated he would like to do our lawn in the summer and asked to see the back yard to assess it's size. Fortunately, my husband did not agree to that and indicated we did not need any help with the lawn in the summer. If he had agreed to that request, that would have taken him from the front to the back of the house, providing a pretty good idea of the layout and other aspects of the house.

    The police were very interested in this as they definitely believe that the thieves were in the neighbourhood on a false pretence. The victims had a son who lived with them but he was away at the time and the couple returned early due to needs at the husband's work.

    Anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread - back to Oscar!
    pug lover

  11. #451
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    i have 2 cell phones, my own and work. i leave them in the bathroom at night so i can hear the phone ring but not all the little pings from texts etc as i am too lazy to change it to silent.
    I feel like I'm in a dream. But it can't be a dream because there are no boy dancers!

  12. #452

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    Quote Originally Posted by puglover View Post

    The police were very interested in this as they definitely believe that the thieves were in the neighbourhood on a false pretence. The victims had a son who lived with them but he was away at the time and the couple returned early due to needs at the husband's work.

    Anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread - back to Oscar!
    Gosh. Anytime that happens it throws up an immediate red flag that this was an inside job. Someone had to have known they were supposed to be gone. It could have been friends or other family. It could also be people who work at the house (maids, lawn care, etc) and were told not to come because the owners would be gone for x amount of days. They pass this information on to people they know and get a kick back from the robbery, I assume. Unfortunately these people came home early.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

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