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  1. #201

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    Quote Originally Posted by robinhood View Post
    Except in this case he's proven to be guilty. It's just the level of premeditation in the act that is being/going to be judged, as the fact is he murdered his girlfriend
    Actually, that's not a fact; it's an interpretation, and though it may well be true, it's too soon to consider it fact (especially considering that there many things we don't know yet). The one fact that everyone agrees upon is that he killed his girlfriend. Whether he murdered her remains to be established in a court of law, and thus, he is indeed innocent until proven guilty.

  2. #202
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    He says he did call for help:

    I phoned Johan Stander, who was involved in the administration of the estate and asked him to phone the ambulance. I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door.

    I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to the hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down, Stander arrived. A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived.
    I don't know what Netcare is, but it sounds like they told him to take her himself. The question might be around response times - if his home is close to a hospital, it might have been faster to take her himself.

    We also don't know the status of the doctor that arrived - perhaps he has some credentials as a first responder?

    What puzzles me is that anyone would advise him to move the body. I would expect them to stay on the phone with him to gather more info, and help him try to stop bleeding or help her breathe for example. But I'm not a medical expert.

    As for Heath Ledger, the fact that he was a drug abuser is part of my point. Those close to him knew that, and it informed the decisions they made. Similarly, Oscar's decisions would have been based on what he knew about the dangers to himself and her, who he could trust, what steps he had to take to protect himself etc.

    Maybe I watch too much tv, but when I see the way fictional police treat spouses of victims, it makes me think that if I found someone close to me injured or dead, I'd lawyer up very, very fast. Even more so if it was an accident that I caused.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Actually, that's not a fact; it's an interpretation, and though it may well be true, it's too soon to consider it fact (especially considering that there many things we don't know yet). The one fact that everyone agrees upon is that he killed his girlfriend. Whether he murdered her remains to be established in a court of law, and thus, he is indeed innocent until proven guilty.
    thanks, you're right. I missed the kill-murder lesson in my English class

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I don't know what Netcare is, but it sounds like they told him to take her himself. The question might be around response times - if his home is close to a hospital, it might have been faster to take her himself.
    He apparently called his best friend first, then the caretaker of his estate. He called Netcare Hospital sometime after. It's never wise to directly call a hospital over an emergency because they aren't the best, fastest source to dispatch the appropriate responders. That's why pretty much every medical facility answers the telephone with the greeting, "If this is an emergency, hang up now and dial 911."

    Pistorius' actions following the shooting, including the apparent use of the cricket bat and damaging the crime scene, amount to a big comedy of errors. The question is whether those errors were intentional.

  5. #205

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    Do we know if it's common for people in South Africa to call hospitals over emergency services, though?

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Do we know if it's common for people in South Africa to call hospitals over emergency services, though?
    They've had a centralized emergency management system, much like 911 in the US, for many years.

    Reminds me of traveling overseas and catching reruns of William Shatner's Rescue 911, which was huge hit abroad for some reason. The local broadcasts always had a frequent voiceover and screen flashes with the instruction, "The emergency number in (country) is (number)." Some will even dub over or silence the mention of "911" in the show. Localizing of American products abroad is a tricky thing indeed.
    Last edited by heckles; 02-20-2013 at 08:56 PM.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post
    Heath Ledger's massage therapist didn't act wisely, but I think we're comparing apples to oranges here. Ledger was a known drug abuser, and therefore his massage therapist may have underestimated the seriousness of the situation in front of her. Pistorius, on the other hand, was facing a woman who had been shot at close range four times. How could that not require an ambulance? Did he delay action because he was too busy thinking about how he was going to explain this one?
    Right. Self-induced drug overdose is COMPLETELY different from shooting someone else 4 times. They wanted to protect Ledger's reputation and it's something that's possible to cover up if they got him to a hospital quickly and discreetly. Turns it out was far too late by that time, but I can kind of see the logic there.

    Murder scene involving a gun? Very hard to cover that up...

    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post
    Pistorius' actions following the shooting, including the apparent use of the cricket bat and damaging the crime scene, amount to a big comedy of errors. The question is whether those errors were intentional.
    Indeed.

  8. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    I think there are people who do lock the bathroom door as a habit. But I will bet that is one thing that jumped right out at the police as an oddity.
    I think locking the bathroom door is a very "female" thing to do; maybe men do it too, but the men in my life (husband, sons, I sure wish they would close the door!) seem not to care who sees them take a whiz... I have always locked the bathroom door, and do so even if I am alone in the house or it's the middle of the night. It's ingrained as I absolutely HATE having someone walk in. So, to me, it's not unreasonable or necessarily suspicious that she locked the door.

  9. #209

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    I am waiting to see if reports emerge regarding Pistorius' relationship with Reeva; friends' observations, whether he was overly possessive or abusive, or if he had a past history of abusive relationships.

    There's just so much we don't know at this point.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiery View Post
    I think locking the bathroom door is a very "female" thing to do; maybe men do it too, but the men in my life (husband, sons, I sure wish they would close the door!) seem not to care who sees them take a whiz... I have always locked the bathroom door, and do so even if I am alone in the house or it's the middle of the night. It's ingrained as I absolutely HATE having someone walk in. So, to me, it's not unreasonable or necessarily suspicious that she locked the door.
    I leave the door wide open. My fiance closes it, and locks it sometimes still. I only close it when I don't want the cat to come in and bother me. So YMMV, but I agree that it isn't THAT unusual...

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiery View Post
    I think locking the bathroom door is a very "female" thing to do; maybe men do it too, but the men in my life (husband, sons, I sure wish they would close the door!) seem not to care who sees them take a whiz... I have always locked the bathroom door, and do so even if I am alone in the house or it's the middle of the night. It's ingrained as I absolutely HATE having someone walk in. So, to me, it's not unreasonable or necessarily suspicious that she locked the door.
    Agree with this; I don't think any assumptions can be made about the door being locked.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiery View Post
    I think locking the bathroom door is a very "female" thing to do; maybe men do it too, but the men in my life (husband, sons, I sure wish they would close the door!) seem not to care who sees them take a whiz... I have always locked the bathroom door, and do so even if I am alone in the house or it's the middle of the night. It's ingrained as I absolutely HATE having someone walk in. So, to me, it's not unreasonable or necessarily suspicious that she locked the door.
    That's why I said I wonder if it's a habit. I know there are people who do.

    I don't know if it's a female thing to do or not. I don't think I have ever locked a bathroom door at home, and I don't close it when I am in the house by myself or in the middle of the night, either. But I don't know if that makes me the anomaly or you.

    If it was something she usually did, it's not suspicious. If it's something she didn't normally do, it is.

    Same thing with her being dressed. If she normally slept in shorts and a tank top, that's normal. If she didn't, it isn't.

    And so on.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiery View Post
    So, to me, it's not unreasonable or necessarily suspicious that she locked the door.
    According to Pistorius, the entire bathroom, which had a separate small room for the toilet, was completely dark. Apparently the bedroom was also dark, since Pistorius claims he didn't notice her absence from her side of the bed, from which he retrieved the gun. Even with privacy as a concern, it seems off that a woman goes from a dark bedroom into an adjacent dark bathroom in the middle of the night, goes into the dark toilet room within that dark bathroom, and still feels the need to lock the door. This alone isn't the smoking gun, but it doesn't look good.

  14. #214
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    If one is staggering to the bathroom half asleep in the dark, I'm not sure she would have felt any need other than to pee. I think that for many, locking doors is a habit that you don't even think about, whether it's the front door or the bathroom door - you do it automatically. On more than one occasion I have come in from the yard, only to hear my husband knocking a few minutes later because I locked the door without even realizing it.

  15. #215

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    The weird thing to me is that she supposedly made no verbal noise or comment after 1) Oscar said there was an intruder and told her to call the police and 2) got shot the first time (and she didn’t die right away, per Oscar). And then, I still don’t know who doesn’t check to ensure a guest is not the one in the bathroom before shooting a gun through a closed door.

    If any of you have guests and hear noises in the bathroom, PLEASE make sure it is not them before shooting up the toilet, will you?

    Maybe it was an accident of some sort, but I don’t think his version of events is completely true.
    What would Jenny do?

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    re lights in the house - although Oscar claims he didn't turn on any lights, if Reeva was using the bathroom there's a good chance that light was on...
    This is one problem I have with Oscar's story. If the house was so dark, we're expected to believe that Reeva went to the bathroom without turning on ANY lights...not in the hallway or even the bathroom? Right.

    Regarding him hearing a noise and thinking it was an intruder...sure, if he were alone. But he wasn't!! Hearing a noise, the first thing he would do is see if it's Reeva. But no. He instead grabs his gun, puts on his legs, shouts out at the supposed intruder, fires 4 shots, THEN decides to see what's going on with Reeva.

    Regarding him not realizing Reeva wasn't in bed...eyes get adjusted to the dark. It is extremely dark when the lights are first turned off, but unless the bedroom has no windows (which I doubt), eventually you can easily make things out--ESPECIALLY a person in bed or not in bed!

    Then there's South Africa's high crime. Sure, but I suspect that just like in other countries, those who live in rich, high-priced gated communities are rarely affected. He must not have been THAT concerned with crime violence considering the balcony door was left open during the night.

    In the words of Judge Judy, if it doesn't make sense, it isn't true. But, I suspect he'll likely walk as most celebrities do.

    I wonder if he would agree to a lie detector test?

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    In the words of Judge Judy, if it doesn't make sense, it isn't true.
    Oh man, release Judge Judy on this guy.

    "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining!"

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    This is one problem I have with Oscar's story. If the house was so dark, we're expected to believe that Reeva went to the bathroom without turning on ANY lights...not in the hallway or even the bathroom? Right.
    I never turn on lights when I get up to go the bathroom at night. And yes, I've walked into many walls and been impaled by the bed post, but the lights hurt my eyes and often disturb my husband. There really is no trouble peeing in the dark.

  19. #219
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    I believe the killing of Reeva was an accident, but I also think something unusual happened that night that caused this tragedy. Maybe Pistorius snapped or maybe he was partially conscious, was in a trance or even sleepwalking ? I just don't think he was totally aware of everything he did that night.

  20. #220
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    This is in NO way accusing Reeva of anything, but I'm thinking that the ONLY way Oscar's story holds up is if Reeva was locked in the bathroom alone, zonked out, doing drugs. Drug users will often sneak themselves into the bathroom late at night to take care of their habit, and then they might pass out on the toilet, and that's one of the ONLY scenarios I can think of where Oscar's story MIGHT be credible. But even then, to shoot through a bathroom door four times without a "OPEN UP OR I'LL SHOOT!" "IT'S ME, REEVA!" just defies credibility.

    In this case police would want to see if there were any drugs in Reeva's system or telltale marks like needles or a pipe nearby. But again, I'm just not buying it. I actually think the 'roid rage theory is more credible, and Reeva probably went to the bathroom to hide.

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