View Poll Results: Can Russia win the 2018 Olympics in Ice Dance?

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  • Yes

    47 65.28%
  • No

    18 25.00%
  • Don't Know

    7 9.72%
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Interesting that nobody has brought up C&L as a threat to the Russians or the NA. Will they be able to dominate?
    Only if Anna significally improves her basic skating, but I think that's unlikely. Same about Madison Chock. All of the young Russians have much better basics then them, IMO

  2. #22
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    I think that part of the decline can also be attributed to Russia's rise in singles.
    Last edited by DarrellH; 02-14-2013 at 05:47 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by analia View Post
    Weaver/Poje isn't a young team. They are older than V/M, with injury issues too. No certainty they won't retire after Sochi. G/P is just meh, same with Chock/Bates. The Shibs are hopeless unless they grow out of their goofy schoolboy/girl style. It's quite obvious next quad will see a Russian podium sweep early on.
    W/P are the exact same ages as V/M. 23/25 is actually quite young for a dance team, and the injury issue Kaitlyn encountered with her broken leg is not like the chronic condition Tessa Virtue has. W/P have also already indicated that they plan to continue past Sochi.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I don't think Russia will win the Olympic gold in 2018. Can they? Yes. Will they? Probably not. I think V/M will surely have retired but D/W will still be there. Teams like W/P, Chock/Bates and Gilles/Poirier are also on the rise. I could see a team like Sinitsina/Zhiganshin challenging for the podium.
    Aren't V&M young enough to go for a third Olympic medal? That's regardless of whether or not they can repeat as OGM in 2014. The odds there are still in their favor.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by analia View Post
    Aldridge/Eaton has been on the junior circuit forever and no one ever considers them a real threat due to obvious look issue.
    Aldridge/Eaton have been on the JGP circuit for 3 years, about the same time as Stepanova/Bukin and Kosigina / Moroshkin, one year less than Papadakis / Cizeron, and two years less than Zenkova/Sinitsin. A/E have won two gold medals on the JGP this year, and have JGPF bronze and a 2012 JW bronze.

    I am not sure what you mean by "obvious look issue", and given A/E's international successes, I wonder who the "no one" are that considers A/E not a threat.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrellH View Post
    I think that part of the decline can also be attributed to Russia's rise in singles.
    And maybe due to North America's rise in ice dancing

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Aren't V&M young enough to go for a third Olympic medal? That's regardless of whether or not they can repeat as OGM in 2014. The odds there are still in their favor.

    V/M have made it clear that the Sochi Olympics will be their last competition.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Abandon its traditional view of what ice dance is.
    that's a good way to kill variety in ice dance.

    btw, I see I/K winning in 2018 as they are Olympic gold material.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by martyross View Post
    that's a good way to kill variety in ice dance.

    btw, I see I/K winning in 2018 as they are Olympic gold material.
    Success first creativity second!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    What decline?

    Russian Junior teams are dominating the Junior circuit and Russian senior teams just placed 1st, 2nd and 4th at Euros.
    Worlds medal last in 2009 seniors! I think it's clear that euros being so close to Russian nationals might mean the training is at it's best.
    Last edited by caseyedwards; 02-14-2013 at 07:25 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    What decline?

    Russian Junior teams are dominating the Junior circuit and Russian senior teams just placed 1st, 2nd and 4th at Euros.
    Junior success doesn't necessarily mean anything, look at Romanavskaya/Grachev, Mikhailova/Sergeev, and Gorshkova/Butikov. I have a feeling Monko/Khalavian and Pushkash/Guerreiro are heading the same way, and Sinitsina/Zhiganshin might if they don't change coaches.

    And this Euros was the weakest probably ever. European ice dancing is dying along with the Russian school, especially once P&B retire. DomShabs bronze in 2010 was the worst result at the Olympics for the #1 Russian team (they had always won gold or at least silver), and it's looking very possible there will be no medal at all in Sochi. This is also the longest streak they have gone without a medal at Worlds, and given that the Russian teams were 5th and 6th at GPF (without W&P), there is no guarantee of a medal, only a chance. I can't remember a time before when Russians were not considered gold medal threats, even if they didn't actually win. Even DomShabs were a gold medal contender.

  11. #31

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    It's very likely that Russia will not win an ice dancing medal in Sochi. Just like they were not close to a medal in Moscow worlds. The issues of senior dance collapse when put up against Detroit/Michigan training happens in every senior worlds and also 2010 Olympics.

  12. #32
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    Oh Davis & White won't retire after 2014 at all, IMO.
    The 2018 podium will consist of gold for I&K, with the battle for silver and bronze between one of B&S, an up and comer from juniors, and possibly, possibly D&W (only if they stay til 2018).

  13. #33

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    I think it's more like the rest of the world has caught up with Russia, than Russian ice dance going into serious decline. All they have to do is what had worked for them in the past- find young talent at an early age, and cultivate it.

    My earlier comment still holds- Russian coaches moving to the west is one of the reasons for the decline, but it is not as big a decline as it may appear; a lot has to do with the west figuring out how to win in ice dance.

    The flip side is Russia has gained a lot in the ladies field, and there is some decline in the USA ladies (an understatement?)

  14. #34
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    Elena and Nikita will have a great shot post 2014
    they have many good juniors too going to seniors like Stepanova/Bukin

    the 2010 was the transition period where all the soviet born ice dancers retired

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by analia View Post
    It's going to be a Russian quad next quad. Russia is gonna have 4 world junior champions in a roll. I/K, M/K, S/Z, and certainly S/B this year. They are all better than the NA junior teams. Aldridge/Eaton has been on the junior circuit forever and no one ever considers them a real threat due to obvious look issue. The only junior dance team with great potential is Papadakis/Cizeron.
    A/E may have look issue but they have good quidance under Krylova
    Papadakis/Cizeron will be a huge threat next quad

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by love_skate2011 View Post
    Elena and Nikita will have a great shot post 2014
    they have many good juniors too going to seniors like Stepanova/Bukin

    the 2010 was the transition period where all the soviet born ice dancers retired
    Just like the Russian pairs.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Just like the Russian pairs.
    indeed back then they only had Kavaguti/Smirnov
    how much a year after made a difference now they have V/T, B/L, S/K, A/M and some very talented juniors

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I think it's more like the rest of the world has caught up with Russia, than Russian ice dance going into serious decline. All they have to do is what had worked for them in the past- find young talent at an early age, and cultivate it.

    My earlier comment still holds- Russian coaches moving to the west is one of the reasons for the decline, but it is not as big a decline as it may appear; a lot has to do with the west figuring out how to win in ice dance.
    I agree that the emigration of the Russian coaches contributed to the problem, but I disagree that it's simply a matter of the rest of the world catching up with Russia. IMO, the Russian dancers are just not as good as they were in the past. The women were generally fantastic and did not have posture issues like Bobrova, Ilinykh, and Sinitsina do. They had much better choreography and music, not crap like Ghost and randomly pasting Marton's Tosca at the end of their program. Their lifts were always elegant and smooth. The Russians were also very good at dancing in the ballroom and Latin styles, whereas IMO all of the current Russian dancers did a terrible job with the Latin SD and the only dance they seem to be decent at is a waltz, so R&T just repeat it over and over. Also, the Russian teams used to generally have excellent speed, which some teams notably do not, especially R&T and P&G.

    They do need to find young talent (which they have in abundance), and cultivate it, but something about how they are going about cultivating is clearly not working.

  19. #39

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    There could be one more factor. In the past - USSR years- the top skaters went for pairs and ice dance. Those were their glamor sports. Now a lot more talented skaters are skating singles, thus reducing the pool for pairs and ice dance. Pairs still look OK to me, but ice dance has definitely suffered. I still believe that the North Americans have figured out how to win with the current rules, while the Russians may still be a step behind (not for long though).

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    I agree that the emigration of the Russian coaches contributed to the problem, but I disagree that it's simply a matter of the rest of the world catching up with Russia. IMO, the Russian dancers are just not as good as they were in the past. The women were generally fantastic and did not have posture issues like Bobrova, Ilinykh, and Sinitsina do. They had much better choreography and music, not crap like Ghost and randomly pasting Marton's Tosca at the end of their program. Their lifts were always elegant and smooth. The Russians were also very good at dancing in the ballroom and Latin styles, whereas IMO all of the current Russian dancers did a terrible job with the Latin SD and the only dance they seem to be decent at is a waltz, so R&T just repeat it over and over. Also, the Russian teams used to generally have excellent speed, which some teams notably do not, especially R&T and P&G.

    They do need to find young talent (which they have in abundance), and cultivate it, but something about how they are going about cultivating is clearly not working.
    Lots of this here goes back to coaching choreography that's mentioned in the first sentence. Coaches can do choreo and cultivate talent and total depleting of top talent to the us is a big issue. Obviously all these teams if they are good would have the opportunity to move to the us and train in the us but for many they would have already been skating like 10 years and habits and loyalties established.

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