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    2013 ISU World Team Trophy, April 11-14, in Tokyo

    Announcement: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=3967
    Excerpts:
    Six (6) ISU Members will qualify based on the scoring scale used for the ISU World Standing points (see applicable scale in sub-paragraph e) below) scored by its best 2 Lady Single Skaters, best 2 Men Single Skaters, the best Pair Skating couple and the best Ice Dance couple primarily at ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating events and Final season 2012/13 and the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2013 (season 2012/13), plus possibly the ISU European Figure Skating Championships/ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships 2013, the ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships 2013 and ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating season 2012/13.
    ...

    To be in compliance with Rule 136, paragraph 6, the following directive is issued by the ISU Council. Any Skater/Couple from a Qualified ISU Member, who placed within the first ten (10) places at the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2013 and is ranked in the ISU World Standings among the best 2 Lady Single Skaters, best 2 Men Single Skaters, the best Pair Skating couple and the best Ice Dance couple of his/her/their respective Qualified ISU Member, if this Skater/Couple elects in advance of the ISU World Team Trophy not to participate in the ISU World Team Trophy (for whatever reason), he/she/they will not be permitted to participate in any other competitions, shows, and exhibitions from Monday noon (March 18, 2013) after the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2013, during the ISU World Team Trophy, and until April 15, 2013.
    ...
    The Qualified ISU Members will be officially informed by the ISU Secretariat shortly after the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2013 and must enter their Skaters/Couples by Monday, March 25, 2013. The official Entry Forms indicating the participating Skaters/Couples plus one substitute for each discipline (Ladies, Men, Pair Skating, Ice Dance) must reach the Organizing Committee of the ISU World Team Trophy and the ISU Secretariat on or before Monday, March 25, 2013.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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    So if either Ashley Wagner or Gracie Gold do not place in top 10 at worlds. They will nominate Alissa Czisny or Mirai Nagasu for the US?

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    The federations are allowed some discretion in their choices... it's never been clear-cut (ETA: Menshov for Russia in 2009, Gold for USA in 2012, to cite 2 examples).

    I've looked at the Grand Prix/GPF ranking points from this season, and it appears that Japan, Canada, USA, Russia, France, and China (in no particular order) may be top 6 teams at this time?

    ETA:
    Adding up JGP/Grand Prix/GP Final points only, I get:

    1. JPN - Takahashi 800 + Hanyu 720 + Asada 800 + Suzuki 648 + [No Pair] + Reeds 262 = 3230

    2. USA - Abbott 360 + Miner 324 + Wagner 720 + Gao 472 + Denney/Coughlin 324 + Davis/White 800 = 3000

    3. CAN - Chan 648 + Reynolds 262 + Osmond 400 + Lacoste 236 + Duhamel/Radford 583 + Virtue/Moir 720 = 2849

    4. RUS - Kovtun 350 + Voronov 324 + Tuktamysheva 525 + Sotnikova 320 + Volosozhar/Trankov 800 + Bobrova/Soloviev 525 = 2848

    5. FRA - Amodio 324 + Joubert 292 + Meite 262 + Gilleron-Gorry 120 + James/Cipres 292 + Pechalat/Bourzat 648 = 1938

    6. CHN - Han 225 + Song 262 + Z. Li 292 + Y. Zhang 191 + Pang/Tong 648 + Huang/Zheng 213 = 1831

    Next in line: ITA? Marchei 292 + [no 2nd GP or JGP lady] + Panfili 108 + [no 2nd GP or JGP man] + Berton/Hotarek 324 + Capellini/Lanotte 583 = 1307

    Corrections welcomed.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 02-13-2013 at 01:59 PM. Reason: To correct typo
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    The federations are allowed some discretion in their choices... it's never been clear-cut.

    I've looked at the Grand Prix/GPF ranking points from this season, and it appears that Japan, Canada, USA, Russia, France, and China (in no particular order) may be top 6 teams at this time?
    Any idea what will happen with Japan not having a pair? they have enough points to qualify anyway, & I'm sure everyone would want them there as hosts, but it would be a bit strange to miss an entry in one section of the event.

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    I forgot to include this part of the Announcement:

    "The team of the host ISU Member, if not qualified under the applicable Qualifying System, will receive a wild card entry as team no. 6 replacing the team finishing in that place in the standings."
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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    There are two provisions: the one that Sylvia quoted and,

    Furthermore, in case that one or more of the best ranked Skaters/Couples (in the ISU World Standings valid after the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2013) of a Qualified ISU Member elects not to participate, the ISU reserves the right to exclude such team from the competition and to invite instead the Member/s whose team is ranked next in the ISU World Team Trophy qualification list.
    This provision determines whether the ISU will refuse to allow a team to participate if best-ranked skaters do not participate and whether the ISU will sanction that country. Were Czisny to remain one of the two top-ranked (WS) US Ladies after World Championships 2013 -- points earned at Senior B's between Worlds and WTT don't count -- I doubt the ISU would want to deal with the paperwork of having the US submit her name and then replace her with a substitute because it's too soon after her surgery. After that, the top-ranked skaters are the top-ranked skaters, and there's nothing to suggest that substitutes are exempt. ETA: In the document, but in practice, last year, with the same wording, the US was allowed to appoint Gold, who was behind Nagasu, Zawazki, Gao, Zhang in WS, in place of the injured Czisny, who was first-ranked.

    Currently the US Ladies are ranked:

    10. Czisny: 2650
    11. Wagner: 2611, needs 24th place or higher to pass Czisny
    17. Nagasu: 2167
    18. Zawadzki: 2151
    19. Gao: 2130
    22. Gold: 1994, needs 19th 6th* or higher at Worlds to pass Nagasu and 6th or higher 1st* to pass Czisny

    As it stands now, were Wagner and Gold to place 25th or lower in London, unless they wanted to risk ejection and sanctions, the USFS still would have to appoint Wagner as the second-highest-ranked US Lady, because no skater under her will earn any more WS points before WTT. Were Gold to place 20th 7th* or lower in London, then USFS could do what it wanted, because Czisny would have a medical reason not to skate.

    *Gold currently has 496 points from 4C's and only can earn incremental points over that amount.

    Of course, this could change if Gold and/or Wagner didn't skate and the US went to the substitutes list for one or both of them (Zawadzki, Gao, Nagasu) in London. To be guaranteed a WTT spot, they'd have to pass Wagner. Zawadzki with 402 championship points would need to medal, Gao with 612 championship points would need to win, and Nagasu would need a Top 10 finish in London.

    ETA: The competing teams have more leeway for Pairs and Dance, if their top two ranked teams place Top 10 at Worlds. IIRC, Bazarova/Larianov and Ilinykh/Katsapalov were the second-ranked teams, but since they, too, were Top 10 at Worlds, they could go in place of Volosozhar/Trankov and Bobrova/Soloviev.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 02-12-2013 at 11:20 PM.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

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    I am a bit confused as to how Japan will compete if they do not have a pairs team, however. It's hard to imagine Narumi Takahashi has a new partner and is comfortable enough with him to do a competition so quickly. Weren't they just having tryouts barely a month ago?

    Can they compete without a pairs team?
    I meant to take the high road.... but I missed the exit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    The federations are allowed some discretion in their choices... it's never been clear-cut (ETA: Menshov for Russia in 2009, Gold for USA in 2012, to cite 2 examples).

    I've looked at the Grand Prix/GPF ranking points from this season, and it appears that Japan, Canada, USA, Russia, France, and China (in no particular order) may be top 6 teams at this time?

    ETA:
    Adding up JGP/Grand Prix/GP Final points only, I get:

    1. JPN - Takahashi 800 + Hanyu 720 + Asada 800 + Suzuki 648 + [No Pair] + Reeds 262 = 3230

    2. USA - Abbott 360 + Miner 324 + Wagner 720 + Gao 472 + Denney/Coughlin 324 + Davis/White 800 = 3000

    3. CAN - Chan 648 + Reynolds 262 + Osmond 400 + Lacoste 236 + Duhamel/Radford 583 + Virtue/Moir 720 = 2849

    4. RUS - Kovtun 350 + Voronov 324 + Tuktamysheva 525 + Sotnikova 320 + Volosozhar/Trankov 800 + Bobrova/Soloviev 525 = 2848

    5. FRA - Amodio 324 + Joubert 292 + Meite 262 + Gilleron-Gorry 120 + James/Cipres 292 + Pechalat/Bourzat 648 = 1938

    6. CHN - Han 225 + Song 262 + Z. Li 292 + Y. Zhang 191 + Pang/Tong 648 + Huang/Zheng 213 = 1831

    Next in line: ITA? Marchei 292 + [no 2nd GP of JGP lady] + Panfili 108 + [no 2nd GP or JGP man] + Berton/Hotarek 324 + Capellini/Lanotte 583 = 1307

    Corrections welcomed.
    In Italian case, I thought you have to take Euros placement for second ladie/man

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    The federations are allowed some discretion in their choices... it's never been clear-cut (ETA: Menshov for Russia in 2009, Gold for USA in 2012, to cite 2 examples).
    Gold subbed for Czisny, who was injured. Given that Gachinski was still a junior and Russian Men were weak in 2009, aside from Voronov, who competed, Lutai would have had points from Euros 2007-8, 2009 Worlds, and 2007 Skate America. Borodulin would have had points from Jr. Worlds 2007-8 and Euros 2009, 2 JGP's in 2007, 1 GP in 2008, and Winter Universiade 2009. Griazev's points were from 2007. I think Borodulin's the most likely to have been ranked 1st or 2nd in WS with Voronov. Was Menshov a substitute for one of the top two-ranked skaters?

    Quote Originally Posted by npavel View Post
    In Italian case, I thought you have to take Euros placement for second ladie/man
    There are two sets of WS points that are used: the first group is from GPF or GP, and if there aren't two, from JGP. That is what Sylvia calculated. The second is the two sets of championship points, first from WC's, which haven't been held, and then, if there aren't two -- i.e., Italian Men -- a second can be taken from Euros. The way it's written, if the Euros points for a skater are higher than Worlds points, the Worlds points are taken any way.

    Italy should have two scores from Worlds in Ladies, Pairs, and Dance. They will have one entry for Men at Worlds. If that skater comes in 24th or higher, they will have one set of WS championship points. They won't have any from Euros, because the only Italian Men competing were Bacchini and Parkinson who didn't reach the FS, and WS points are only awarded to 24th place at championships if the skater completes the competition.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

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    I totally forgot that Gracie went to this last year.

    They should set it up so that only your three highest scoring disciplines count towards the overall score. That way, teams that qualify entrants in all four divisions wouldn't have to choose who to leave behind before the competition, but teams w/o either a pairs or dance team wouldn't be shut out entirely.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

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    Didn't Kovtun go for Russia last year? How on earth did that pass through all these loopholes considering Kovtun was a) still a Junior and b) not even at Junior Worlds...

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    Kovtun and Bush both skated for Russia last year. I only have a copy of the WS after they were re-adjusted, but I don't think either would have bypassed Gachinski, who was at Worlds, and Menshov in WS, and maybe Dmitriev.

    So once again the ISU puts big wording in their announcement, and then ignores it. I don't know why they bother.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

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    we have a junior man who has scored at jgp:Antonio PANFILI was 9th at Junior GP in Germany. Italy has two entries for worlds if Parkinson gets the LP minimum score at Challenge Cup

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    Do you think Russia will send a better team than last year to test this kind of event before the Olympics?

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    By The way this event has been handled the last two times I think its obvious the "top 2 ranked skaters" rule has been conveniently ignored in classic ISU style.

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    France sent Amodio to the first WTT in 2009. Preaubert should be there if they follow the rule though. Last year, Russia sent Kovtun and Bush (instead of Gachinski), and USA sent Gold despite her very low place in the WS. They don't take the rule seriously. I think the ISU and the JSF won't complain if the participating federations send members good enough. Russian men were far from "good". I guess Mishin didn't want to travel across Siberia for Gachinski in very poor form. Many Japanese fans were disappointed. Gachi is very popular in Japan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by npavel View Post
    we have a junior man who has scored at jgp:Antonio PANFILI was 9th at Junior GP in Germany. Italy has two entries for worlds if Parkinson gets the LP minimum score at Challenge Cup
    Only 1-8 at GP/JGP get WS points.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

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    1-10 in JGP receive World Standings points (see the table in the WTT Announcement linked above) - that's why Panfili was included in my GP/JGP calculations for Italy.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Given that Gachinski was still a junior and Russian Men were weak in 2009, aside from Voronov, who competed, Lutai would have had points from Euros 2007-8, 2009 Worlds, and 2007 Skate America. Borodulin would have had points from Jr. Worlds 2007-8 and Euros 2009, 2 JGP's in 2007, 1 GP in 2008, and Winter Universiade 2009. Griazev's points were from 2007. I think Borodulin's the most likely to have been ranked 1st or 2nd in WS with Voronov. Was Menshov a substitute for one of the top two-ranked skaters?
    Yes, Menshov replaced Lutai; Voronov was the other initial entry. I checked in the FSU Archives re. Menshov at 2009 WTT - World Standings of the Russian men at the time as posted back then, with 2009 Russian Sr/Jr Nationals results added by me:

    19 2204 Sergei VORONOV* S1
    20 1878 Artem BORODULIN S2 - injured/had surgery a month prior
    30 1586 Ivan BARIEV J1 - missed Jr Worlds
    37 1382 Andrei LUTAI* S3 - WD from WTT due to health problems
    44 1242 Artem GRIGORIEV S9/J3 - listed as a sub. but had a medical problem?
    50 1052 Alexander USPENSKI - missed Nationals/groin surgery in early 2009, according to his Wiki
    51 1024 Artur GACHINSKI S10/J2 - missed Jr Worlds
    56 956 Andrei GRIAZEV S5
    66 863 Sergei DOBRIN S13 - competed in 2009 Russia Cup Final, 4th in a weak field
    72 753 Konstantin MENSHOV S6 - replaced Lutai
    WS ranking? Vladimir Uspenski S4
    Last edited by Sylvia; 02-13-2013 at 06:05 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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    I was looking in the JGPF column.

    Technically, 2009 would have fit into the, "If no top WS and Top 10 at Worlds, then Top two in WS, or if Top 2 not standing, then sub can be anyone" pattern, like God in 2012, but I don't know if that explains 2012 Kovtun *and* Bush.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 02-13-2013 at 06:12 PM.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    ETA:
    Adding up JGP/Grand Prix/GP Final points only, I get:

    1. JPN - Takahashi 800 + Hanyu 720 + Asada 800 + Suzuki 648 + [No Pair] + Reeds 262 = 3230

    2. USA - Abbott 360 + Miner 324 + Wagner 720 + Gao 472 + Denney/Coughlin 324 + Davis/White 800 = 3000

    3. CAN - Chan 648 + Reynolds 262 + Osmond 400 + Lacoste 236 + Duhamel/Radford 583 + Virtue/Moir 720 = 2849

    4. RUS - Kovtun 350 + Voronov 324 + Tuktamysheva 525 + Sotnikova 320 + Volosozhar/Trankov 800 + Bobrova/Soloviev 525 = 2848

    5. FRA - Amodio 324 + Joubert 292 + Meite 262 + Gilleron-Gorry 120 + James/Cipres 292 + Pechalat/Bourzat 648 = 1938

    6. CHN - Han 225 + Song 262 + Z. Li 292 + Y. Zhang 191 + Pang/Tong 648 + Huang/Zheng 213 = 1831

    Next in line: ITA? Marchei 292 + [no 2nd GP or JGP lady] + Panfili 108 + [no 2nd GP or JGP man] + Berton/Hotarek 324 + Capellini/Lanotte 583 = 1307

    Corrections welcomed.
    4. RUS - Menshov 292 + Voronov 324 + Tuktamysheva 525 + Lipnitskaia 360 + Volosozhar/Trankov 800 + Bobrova/Soloviev 525 = 2826

    6. CHN - Wang 236 + Song 262 + Z. Li 292 + Y. Zhang 191 + Pang/Tong 648 + Huang/Zheng 213 = 1842

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