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  1. #701

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    how is that starting rumours? Give me a break. There have been plenty of people stating that V/M did that in Japan because they were afraid of losing to D/W (IOW it was faked). I am simply saying that it's quite obvious to me that he wanted to keep going and not stop so therefore it was a legit injury.
    Sorry that wasn't meant to be a dig at you actually--more of a general statement.

    Also I didn't care what Kurt said about the deduction. It was more Tracey or it might have been Brenda (maybe both) that I felt were kind of throwing Tessa under the bus. Anyways it doesn't matter now, it's over and done with.

  2. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by sap5 View Post
    I don't have a 60 inch screen, but I can believe it. It's his responsibility to make sure the timing is right for their lifts, and if he didn't know she had to stop for a cramp, then he would probably be urging her to get into the lift on time. Nothing wrong with that -- it's his job.
    Exactly.

  3. #703

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainbowkisses View Post
    tessa sounded so....awkward when she was talking about cecs

    maybe scott was trying to make her laugh in the background
    Or maybe she felt awkward trying to conduct a phone interview with a baby crying in the background.

  4. #704
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    Quote Originally Posted by sap5 View Post
    Or maybe she felt awkward trying to conduct a phone interview with a baby crying in the background.
    so where is Scottx brother? this could not be his public baby If she feel awkward this could be secrete baby and what about this big dog and cat? this could be a lot off secretes

  5. #705
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    Quote Originally Posted by iNap View Post
    so where is Scottx brother? this could not be his public baby If she feel awkward this could be secrete baby and what about this big dog and cat? this could be a lot off secretes
    Oh my God, there... is a secret dog too! Maybe his dog and her cat are having an affair. Ewww.

  6. #706

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    Oh my God, there... is a secret dog too! Maybe his dog and her cat are having an affair. Ewww.

  7. #707

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    Scott's brothers have babies. I was sitting near of them them at Canadians (along with Scott's girlfriend, dad and brother).
    Scott niece were at the arena? This girls maybe was born in skaters
    Last edited by pani; 03-04-2013 at 02:14 PM.

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    Listening to the tape and it's as I suspected. They amp their training up for 4CC because that is the second head to head they have with D&W and it's when they want to make the move to reverse GPF results. From what they say it seems they understand they need to do what works for them, what they have learned the last few years to manage their situation (her legs). The aerobic bursts or whatever it is they refer to adding to their training are probably to prepare them for skating the program in competition so that she work through it. Sounds like they just overworked it and she had this result. Likely the same thing two years ago, they hadn't competed the latin program and were likely training like crazy to make a strong showing at Worlds in Moscow. They did say in a much earlier interview this season that the plan is to start preparing much earlier for the Olympic season. I think that is wise and gives them more time to train the way that works for them. Hopefully WTT they won't skate to use that time for themselves and their preparation and also because I'd like to see W&P get another competition this year. W&P need it more at this point and V&M can use the time for planning.

  9. #709

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    That Carmen FD is so challenging. So many different emotions to express within the time frame, and the movements to match. I'd love to see it performed to its full potential at Worlds.

  10. #710

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    Quote Originally Posted by sap5 View Post
    That Carmen FD is so challenging. So many different emotions to express within the time frame, and the movements to match. I'd love to see it performed to its full potential at Worlds.
    What do you think about perfomance at Nationals? I think it was very close to show full potential.

  11. #711

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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    What do you think about perfomance at Nationals? I think it was very close to show full potential.
    I didn't see it live, and I know people who were in the arena said it was fabulous. I felt that from what I saw over the tv screen, it was good, but could still get even better. Before people start saying "but you didn't see it live!," their Worlds 2008 FD performance is an example of an Fd I also saw over tv, but one that I thought just couldn't get any better.

  12. #712

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    how is that starting rumours? Give me a break. There have been plenty of people stating that V/M did that in Japan because they were afraid of losing to D/W (IOW it was faked). I am simply saying that it's quite obvious to me that he wanted to keep going and not stop so therefore it was a legit injury.
    I'd just like to gently point out something. Just because "some people" stated "their opinion" that V/M stopped their program in Japan because they were apparently afraid of losing to D/W doesn't mean that it's the correct version of what happened. There has been a lot of "opinion" and innuendo about V/M in many threads here at FSU with people who seemingly want to believe anything but the truth of the matter. Even when it's pointed out to them over and over and over again, they just refuse to believe it.

    What I find rather interesting is that is *appears* to me that a lot of those "I think V/M stopped because ____" (fill in the blank with your opinion) comes from those who are pro D/W or seem to be "anyone but V/M" posters. I don't recall the Shibs getting this much grief when they stopped and were allowed to restart, they mostly got sympathy and explanations of what went wrong and what were the rules that governed that stoppage, yadda, yadda, yadda. They were then left alone about the whole episode in a short time. However, V/M have a stop and because it's V/M they get villified and called all kinds of names even well after the comp is finished. Interesting double-sided sword.

    I also notice that the young dance team from Italy? aren't getting hauled over to the same degree either. What really gets me is that this latest stoppage was by a couple who had a KNOWN injury -- what with it having taken place during practice -- yet aren't getting the grief piled up on them like we have seen/still are seeing take place with V/M. With the Shibs, it appeared he suffered a problem after they began. With V/M we have been told that a problem took place after they started. Neither of these two teams were aware that they would suffer a medical problem during that dance. Their expectation was that they were fine and ready to compete. They began, a physcial ailment took place, the referee deemed that the lift hadn't been attempted in both cases, and both teams resumed. I fully believe that the PCS of both teams took a hit because of the stoppage, although there are many here who disagree that it happened to V/M. To me, there is a difference in the two scenarios, although many here would argue just the opposite.

    I guess what I am trying to say is that sometimes it is very wearying reading all the anti-V/M by the same posters (often times) who say the same thing over and over again in multiple topics. It's going to be a long couple of weeks, maybe even a long month if you're a V/M fan, especially if they win Worlds. If that happens, I can already hear the reasons why they won and D/W were screwed from the get go.
    Last edited by professordeb; 03-04-2013 at 03:31 PM. Reason: I was missing a word -- that's what happens when you think faster than you type :)
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcg View Post
    Listening to the tape and it's as I suspected. They amp their training up for 4CC because that is the second head to head they have with D&W and it's when they want to make the move to reverse GPF results. From what they say it seems they understand they need to do what works for them, what they have learned the last few years to manage their situation (her legs). The aerobic bursts or whatever it is they refer to adding to their training are probably to prepare them for skating the program in competition so that she work through it. Sounds like they just overworked it and she had this result. Likely the same thing two years ago, they hadn't competed the latin program and were likely training like crazy to make a strong showing at Worlds in Moscow. They did say in a much earlier interview this season that the plan is to start preparing much earlier for the Olympic season. I think that is wise and gives them more time to train the way that works for them. Hopefully WTT they won't skate to use that time for themselves and their preparation and also because I'd like to see W&P get another competition this year. W&P need it more at this point and V&M can use the time for planning.
    Good analysis. That bodes well for the Olympic season, since their only head to head with D&W is likely to be GPF. They won't need to ramp up their training that hard for Canadian nationals, and most likely one or both will skip the 4CC.

  14. #714

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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    What do you think about perfomance at Nationals? I think it was very close to show full potential.
    I was at Nationals and I thought the performance level was great. I think the elements at Nats still needing some tweaking and the program needed some time and mileage. On the whole it was great, but I thought there was still room for improvement and growth. Knowing those two, I fully expected to see them take it up a notch at 4CC. I would say that from what I saw on video for the 4CC, they had amped up their performance level and they were likely easily looking at their best score -- until the stoppage. I'm thinking their best is still to come -- in London.
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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    However, V/M have a stop and because it's V/M they get villified and called all kinds of names even well after the comp is finished. Interesting double-sided sword.
    V/M are the reigning Olympic and World champions. Of course whatever they do is going to get more attention. Of course they're going to get more hate than the Shibs or some random junior team. That's what happens when you're at the top.

    None of that matters. What's important is how they perform at Worlds, and whether the judges are going to score what they actually see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Good analysis. That bodes well for the Olympic season, since their only head to head with D&W is likely to be GPF. They won't need to ramp up their training that hard for Canadian nationals, and most likely one or both will skip the 4CC.

    I think that is key. We know they had a rough start to the season. The coaching split. Dumping the Carmen SD because they were told it wouldn't work to begin working on a Carmen FD which they then dumped for a different take (probably inspired also by the knowledge C&L were also skating Carmen). C&L stated when they found out they had the same FD they couldn't change it because they wouldn't be ready for the season. They had the same competition schedule as V&M so that Swan FD we saw they debut was very late in the making. Add in their new training regime because of her condition and it's not really surprising her body fought back when they amped up the training. I think an early start to the next season will be just what they need and have faith they are going to kill it next season. I think they are more versatile, have the best dance qualities and the best connection of their closest competitors. With the proper preparation they should be unstoppable.

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    It's interesting that D&W had the same coaching issue and also scrapped their FD at the last minute, but have done fine so far. I guess they don't have the same injury/training issues and they also recycled some old moves and have a more open FD.

    I think V&M did intend to get an early start to the season, at Finlandia, but ultimately decided it wasn't worth it due to a combination of his neck and having to revamp their FD. Then they had problems with the lift at SC, and a problem at GPF, and random deductions at Nationals... it seems like they've been playing catch up all season, although they've still skated extremely well.

    I do hope they skip WTT and do a senior-B in the fall.

  18. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post

    I do hope they skip WTT and do a senior-B in the fall.
    It will be interesting to see if they skip it. WTT is a big paycheck - the prize money is very good for a low stress competition, so it is probably tough for skaters to turn it down. (Though I know Moir is on the record saying it is a ridiculous event.)

  19. #719
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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    What I find rather interesting is that is *appears* to me that a lot of those "I think V/M stopped because ____" (fill in the blank with your opinion) comes from those who are pro D/W or seem to be "anyone but V/M" posters. I don't recall the Shibs getting this much grief when they stopped and were allowed to restart, they mostly got sympathy and explanations of what went wrong and what were the rules that governed that stoppage, yadda, yadda, yadda. They were then left alone about the whole episode in a short time. However, V/M have a stop and because it's V/M they get villified and called all kinds of names even well after the comp is finished. Interesting double-sided sword.

    ......

    I fully believe that the PCS of both teams took a hit because of the stoppage, although there are many here who disagree that it happened to V/M. To me, there is a difference in the two scenarios, although many here would argue just the opposite.
    No, the Shibs didn't get nearly this much grief. Like I said in another thread, the stoppage rules have been in effect for decades now. Other skaters throughout the years have gotten sympathy and admiration for bravely continuing on to finish their programs. Yet, when V/M stop, it's all of a sudden rightous outrage about the rule. Again, repeating myself, if it had been D/W or any other team, these people would all be singing an entirely different tune.

    I also think V/M took a hit in their PCS. This ties to what I think a lot of the real reason behind the outrage is. V/M were on fire before they had to stop. They had won that SD and they were winning the FD when Tessa's leg cramped up. Someone looked at the protocols and for the elements V/M did before the stop, they had out GOE'd D/W on the same sort of elements. I think they were on their way to a monster score. I think it's the realization, perhaps only subconscioius, that V/M really are that good (i.e. that much better than D/W)--that they could have a stop and only finish 3 points behind D/W--that has everyone's knickers in a twist. They don't want to think about what that score would have been without the stop.

    I guess what I am trying to say is that sometimes it is very wearying reading all the anti-V/M by the same posters (often times) who say the same thing over and over again in multiple topics. It's going to be a long couple of weeks, maybe even a long month if you're a V/M fan, especially if they win Worlds. If that happens, I can already hear the reasons why they won and D/W were screwed from the get go.
    ITA. We are headed for a long couple of weeks/month if V/M win. (turn, spit, curse! turn, spit, curse!) Given the press that's out there, people are already gearing up to throw a fit, regardless of the actual skating. Even if V/M are perfect, they will still throw a fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmcg View Post
    I think that is key. We know they had a rough start to the season. The coaching split. Dumping the Carmen SD because they were told it wouldn't work to begin working on a Carmen FD which they then dumped for a different take (probably inspired also by the knowledge C&L were also skating Carmen).
    From what they said in the video of that Russian fan meeting, it sounds like the Carmen SD idea was scrapped very early on when it was just in the talking about the idea stage. I don't think they worked on it at all beyond discussing the idea and asking if it would work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    It's interesting that D&W had the same coaching issue and also scrapped their FD at the last minute, but have done fine so far. I guess they don't have the same injury/training issues and they also recycled some old moves and have a more open FD.

    I think V&M did intend to get an early start to the season, at Finlandia, but ultimately decided it wasn't worth it due to a combination of his neck and having to revamp their FD. Then they had problems with the lift at SC, and a problem at GPF, and random deductions at Nationals... it seems like they've been playing catch up all season, although they've still skated extremely well.

    I do hope they skip WTT and do a senior-B in the fall.
    Here's the thing: D/W have done fine so far because they're getting overmarked for what they actually put out on the ice. (Granted, it's also easier when you're using the same elements for like the 5th season in a row than trying to challenge yourself and do all new things...) Honestly, if you look at the actual skating, V/M shouldn't be having to play catch up. Go back and rewatch the GPF performances. V/M should have won there. No, they weren't perfect, but neither were D/W--although that didn't bear out in the scoring. If you're really watching close, though D/W don't tend to make big errors, they're sloppy and make a lot of tiny ones that should be adding up but seem to, instead the get ignored. They were especially sloppy at the GPF. The only reason V/M are in a playing catch-up mode at this point is because of how the teams are getting scored. V/M are held to a higher standard but the judges are lenient with D/W. Obviously, because of this, V/M are given a disadvantage they shouldn't have. It's a contrivance.

  20. #720
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    i dont hear a baby crying?

    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    I'd just like to gently point out something. Just because "some people" stated "their opinion" that V/M stopped their program in Japan because they were apparently afraid of losing to D/W doesn't mean that it's the correct version of what happened. There has been a lot of "opinion" and innuendo about V/M in many threads here at FSU with people who seemingly want to believe anything but the truth of the matter. Even when it's pointed out to them over and over and over again, they just refuse to believe it.

    What I find rather interesting is that is *appears* to me that a lot of those "I think V/M stopped because ____" (fill in the blank with your opinion) comes from those who are pro D/W or seem to be "anyone but V/M" posters. I don't recall the Shibs getting this much grief when they stopped and were allowed to restart, they mostly got sympathy and explanations of what went wrong and what were the rules that governed that stoppage, yadda, yadda, yadda. They were then left alone about the whole episode in a short time. However, V/M have a stop and because it's V/M they get villified and called all kinds of names even well after the comp is finished. Interesting double-sided sword.

    I also notice that the young dance team from Italy? aren't getting hauled over to the same degree either. What really gets me is that this latest stoppage was by a couple who had a KNOWN injury -- what with it having taken place during practice -- yet aren't getting the grief piled up on them like we have seen/still are seeing take place with V/M. With the Shibs, it appeared he suffered a problem after they began. With V/M we have been told that a problem took place after they started. Neither of these two teams were aware that they would suffer a medical problem during that dance. Their expectation was that they were fine and ready to compete. They began, a physcial ailment took place, the referee deemed that the lift hadn't been attempted in both cases, and both teams resumed. I fully believe that the PCS of both teams took a hit because of the stoppage, although there are many here who disagree that it happened to V/M. To me, there is a difference in the two scenarios, although many here would argue just the opposite.

    I guess what I am trying to say is that sometimes it is very wearying reading all the anti-V/M by the same posters (often times) who say the same thing over and over again in multiple topics. It's going to be a long couple of weeks, maybe even a long month if you're a V/M fan, especially if they win Worlds. If that happens, I can already hear the reasons why they won and D/W were screwed from the get go.
    next time they tell you something along the lines of that just tell them that "its a shame d/w can only win when v/m is injured"

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