Virtue and Moir 25: Road to home

[professordeb]

pjkwong = ultimate troll
icenetwork = at least you tried



im not angry at all
this guy is a tool and its hilarious

I wouldn't call PJ a troll. I'd give that name to others, but not her.

Icenetwork, a couple of my favourite quotes from a movie I can watch over and over and over (well you get the picture)

Adhemar: You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. Come back when you're worthy.

to go along with

Wat: You have been weighed.
Roland: You have been measured.
Kate: And you have absolutely...
Chaucer: Been found wanting.
William: Welcome to New World. God save you, if it is right that he should do so.

Name that movie

Methinks Icenetwork is just trying to be a prophet -- a voice telling "truth" (as they see it) to the wilderness that is figureskating.

OK, taking tongue out of cheek now -- cheeky thing that I am at times

[martyross]

wow, professordeb, i have heard that quote from my dad a lot of times - of course in a different language. it always makes me laugh, especially when referred to other members of the family though i didn't know where it came from. it is a funny joke in this context, thanks !

[m_chenning]

Name that movie

A Knight's Tale

Methinks Icenetwork is just trying to be a prophet -- a voice telling "truth" (as they see it) to the wilderness that is figureskating.

It's a profanation of a great sport, that's what they do. (a long time ago)

[martyross]

Thought of the night: a few hours ago asteroid 2012 DA 14 passed by our planet. an impact was considered highly unlikely but it seems it was the closest distance recorded in history. it makes you think.
events like this make you see things differently, including the importance of dancer Henry Byalikov's opinions on the top ice dance teams.

to conclude the day on a ultra-uber note: if an asteroid were really to impact the Hearth, i would feel happy for having seen Tessa and Scott's Carmen Cheers!

[rainbowkisses]

Thought of the night: a few hours ago asteroid 2012 DA 14 passed by our planet. an impact was considered highly unlikely but it seems it was the closest distance recorded in history. it makes you think.
events like this make you see things differently, including the importance of dancer Henry Byalikov's opinions on the top ice dance teams.

to conclude the day on a ultra-uber note: if an asteroid were really to impact the Hearth, i would feel happy for having seen Tessa and Scott's Carmen Cheers!

an asteroid did not impact the earth but a meteor did in russia
i just hope our awesome russian fans are alright

[flowerpower]

Lois Elfman replied to a commenter in the Facebook comments section at the bottom of her article as follows - ETA relevant excerpt:

"For starters, Icenetwork had nothing to do with Henry Byalikov being selected to work with me on an article. I picked him because I like his dancing and I wanted a ballroom person I hadn't previously interviewed about skating to look at the performances and give opinions. Second, it's meant to be the view of a dance person outside of the skating world. Strictly in his opinion as a dancer. As I often ask dancers to look at skating programs, it is my experience they often view programs differently than people within the skating world. Lastly, the attention Mr. Byalikov paid to details and thoughtful commentary was impressive."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So this ballroom dancer from outside the skating world gives a one-off opinion. It is just his personal view, he doesn't know skating, and cannot put the performances and any observations in context. Some comments appear bizarre (lack of connection, leg line )

If this one-off opinion were uncomplimentary to D/W, do you think icenetwork would have published it? And treated it as some sort of authoritative statement, by highlighting it with a photo of them looking away from each other and accompanying caption about lack of connection, lol?

[aka_gerbil]

I noticed someone mentioned the caption under the photo so I went back and looked and of course the caption makes mention of a lack of connection. :roll eyes: And they post a pic where they are not looking at each other. It's ridiculous. They (icenetwork/USFSA) are so transparent in their politicking for Davis and White it's not even funny. I wonder what Marina would think of this article?

ITA, Rafter. I thought the politicking was very transparent. Given that one of the first things that comes to mind when you mention V/M is their connection, it was beyond ridiculous to even try to go there.

[Rafter]

"For starters, Icenetwork had nothing to do with Henry Byalikov being selected to work with me on an article. I picked him because I like his dancing and I wanted a ballroom person I hadn't previously interviewed about skating to look at the performances and give opinions. Second, it's meant to be the view of a dance person outside of the skating world. Strictly in his opinion as a dancer. As I often ask dancers to look at skating programs, it is my experience they often view programs differently than people within the skating world. Lastly, the attention Mr. Byalikov paid to details and thoughtful commentary was impressive."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So this ballroom dancer from outside the skating world gives a one-off opinion. It is just his personal view, he doesn't know skating, and cannot put the performances and any observations in context. Some comments appear bizarre (lack of connection, leg line )

If this one-off opinion were uncomplimentary to D/W, do you think icenetwork would have published it?

Heh. Very doubtful. I even wonder if half of what this Henry dude said actually came out of his mouth or did Lois Elfman add some comment of her own in under his name?

[Shayii]

For those that couldn't see this earlier it's on YT now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XCiFva3xjk. She hasn't uploaded the Marina one yet, but hopefully she does cuz she was so cute in it.

[Cherub721]

Thanks! Tessa in practice clothes.

[Fort]

I'm glad these were made available! Marina's interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_C9tROzaCk

[whoa]

Marina is adorable. I think it would be more fun to watch them train than to watch their best performances.

[Macassar88]

For those that couldn't see this earlier it's on YT now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XCiFva3xjk. She hasn't uploaded the Marina one yet, but hopefully she does cuz she was so cute in it.

I may get some flack for this but I think Scott looks sexy with his hair that short.

[Bournekraatzfan]

Bournekraatzfan, i know, you are very sweet and kind person. Just want to ask you, if you like both teams, why you never see V-M have something better, then D-W? I mean FD choreo.
Like i said before, i want to say thanks to PJ, because she is one, who support Tessa and Scott and pay attention to this.
I knew people will start to criticize her for this and will not pay attention she said D-W are best ever ice dancers (wich, like i think, overrating). But why nobody start to criticize Icenetwork and ice-dance. com for posting very rude comments about V-M, Funny Face?
And if you will watch Icenetwork today thay found an "expert" who said D-W FD choreo is masterpiece. And he talked about D-W and Bobrova-Soloviev FDs (wich i love), but why not to ask them - why you didnt talk about P-B FD? W-P? I-K?

Like Shayii, I stand by my previous comment. IMO, PJ's comment was rude and unnecessary. It is fine if she does not like D&W's FD, but she could have used an analogy that was not so belittling. I do, however, agree with you with respect to IN. They are so dismissive, insensitive ("French Toast") and uninformative that I don't bother to read their material. and someone at IDC clearly has something against Tessa and Scott, but they do have some good stuff on there, too, so I just try to look for that stuff.

I posted about the difficulty of V&M's and P&B's choreography, along with other aspects of their skating, not being sufficiently rewarded a couple of pages back. As you know, I absolutely adore D&W. I love how they bring freestyle skills into ice dance, I love their speed, I love their quick feet, and I love the raw quality to their skating (including the "bursts of emotion" martyross discussed). However, I do think they have been generously marked in PCS, especially in the category of transitions/linking footwork. While I love their programs this year, I do not think they have the most difficult or intricate programs, and thus, I was perplexed at the scoring of the SD at 4CC. aka_gerbil, Cherub721, and Carmen Ovsiannikov (love this name so much!) have pretty much said it all for me. They have listed the things they do not feel are being rewarded enough in ice dance these days, and I completely agree with them. These things (posture, line, unison, distance between partners, along with number if transitions and difficulty and variety of these transitions) are explicitly listed in the CoP so I do not agree with the way in which the rules are being applied. I'll also add that skating skills really are the foundation of PCS, imo. Great skating skills (not just speed but ease of acceleration, varied speed and power, clean turns, deep edges, multidirectional skating, etc.) that are exhibited through a variety of difficult transitions throughout the program (note the interdependence between these two aspects of PCS) allow a team to express the music in the most interesting ways, imo. And a strong piece of choreography skated close together with good unison, matching leg lines, well-placed free legs, energy, and great attention to the rhythm and mood of the music is what should get the Performance/Execution mark. I do feel that speed, though important, is often overvalued. Complex choreography does not provide a team the opportunity to build speed to take into the elements, and it can also impede their ability to get their legs completely balanced on top of the edge to get the clean, clear edges required for a level 4 footwork, for example (legs get tired and don't have the time to recover). And as I said earlier, expanding the surface area of the body by extending the free legs can slow a team due to increased resistance. Transitions thus make a program that much riskier, yet they do so much to enrich the skating. I hope that made sense.

one request--can you please avoid comments like the one you made about Charlie's mom out of the discussion? I am always open to hearing your opinions on the skating as you are clearly well-informed and passionate about the subject but I find the personal stuff hurtful to the skaters and their families.

I do think that there is a double standard with some people--they will call out others for putting down their favourites while trashing their favourites' rivals (+rivals' fans). It is incredibly frustrating, especially when some people completely twist what we say in here and report it to others, treat us as some homogeneous entity, and post about how clueless, delusional and just plain awful we (as V&M fans) are, but I try to remember that those people, and those people alone, are responsible for their actions. I find it hard to ignore the negativity, especially since I consider us to be a little community and people have clearly put a lot of thought into their posts here, but I am trying, like many of you, to focus on the wonderful skating and wonderful people on this board

ok, I promise I will learn to be more concise. I am working on it, I really am.

[Bournekraatzfan]

I may get some flack for this but I think Scott looks sexy with his hair that short.

of course you do

btw, a very warm welcome to vmfan82 and kittysk8ts! I hope you have a wonderful time here

and thank you ofdarkness and Fort for transcribing the doc for our friends who do not have access to the video. and to Shayii for and Fort again for posting the youtube links.

[Shayii]

Marina is adorable. I think it would be more fun to watch them train than to watch their best performances.

I think it would be different. It is fun to watch and I think it's funny how she kinda pits them against each other to make them motivated. It would be a very interesting reality show, that's for sure.

I may get some flack for this but I think Scott looks sexy with his hair that short.

I honestly think he looks great either way (maybe a small preference to it being on the longer side), but I know some absolutely hate it though lol.

BTW while watching these clips I got to thinking Igor was still their coach when this was filmed. So was he not part of the doc or was he edited out?

BKF I think we were posting at the same time. Thank you and you're welcome.

[Carmen Ovsiannikov]

We've talked about this before. There are parts of icedance which are and always will be subjective but things like posture, body line, toe point and connection are not.

I don't know where icenetwork found this Henry Byalikov but this guy can't be much of a dance expert if he thinks that V&M have no connection among other things. Whether it's dance on the ballroom floor or on the ice, there is no mistaking what it means to be a couple with that connection. It makes me wonder if he ever really watched any of V&M's programs or was he just shown a picture of Scott and Tessa when they happened to not be looking at one another.

It seems like USFS/icenetwork is hitting below the belt trying to unsettle V&M and to set up a wuzrobbed scenario in the case V&M and win another World title in London next month.

That has to be it. The sad part is that some will take that article at face value even though they can see differently with their own eyes.

V&M have been constantly criticized because supposedly all they do is lovey, dovey programs full of romance. Oh but wait, now they have no connection at all. Um, which is it? That is a contradiction.

Going into this quad, I never thought that V&M would be one of those teams who people could find so much fault with. Sometimes they are treated as if they barely made it out of the junior division.

[marikat]

List of partners has been updated on V/M's website. Audi is not on the list anymore but now they have Acura as a partner. http://virtuemoir.com

[pani]

List of partners has been updated on V/M's website. Audi is not on the list anymore but now they have Acura as a partner. http://virtuemoir.com

Thank you! Maybe Audi was the sponsor for 2010 OG team and Acura for 2014 OG? Dont understand nothing in cars, but hope this is good sponsors for T-S

Thanks for posting videos! You know, after this video i miss Funny Face
And i am wonder, how they understand Marina and how she understand them

BTW while watching these clips I got to thinking Igor was still their coach when this was filmed. So was he not part of the doc or was he edited out?

I was wonder too. First i thought he wasnt part of this film from the begining. But now - maybe he was edited out?
But Lorie Nicol and Krall is a part of this movie, but they are not Patrcik coaches anymore. So maybe Igor wasnt a part from the begining.

[vmfan82]

Hi guys!! Thank you all for your warm welcome OMG, this thread is more interesting than ever... I have no idea on how to comment... but here we go...

I would like to talk a little bit about Tessa, on and off the ice. It is something specifically talked about couple of pages ago and I hope it is not too late to bring it up:

I can only imagine how much courage and strength it takes to portray a character such as Tessa's in Carmen. Being so intense, sexy and seductive in front of a live audience must a difficult thing to do. Even if it comes easy to her, for some reason, it does take some courage. The assumption that sometimes we read or hear that Tessa may be as slutty as her character in the FS is very questionable. If she is, where is the proof? Using her performance as one is a little ridiculous. She is only portraying a character. She is not only dancing but also acting, as well as Scott. We do not know how easy those characters come to them, because we do not know them. Now, we have watch tons of interviews with TS. We are familiar with their demeanor with people around them and each other, and in now way it suggests that Tessa has anything to do with Carmen from the FD. Or does she? The only conclusion I can draw is that they are great artists showing how they have decided to take full responsibility in portraying to the fullest such tricky characters. Now, something that DO stands out from Tessa's interviews, however, is the way she looks at people. In the medal ceremonies, she looks very attentively and straight in the eyes at the at each of the committee providing them with either medals or flowers. At the interviews, when she is not looking at Scott of course, she looks straights in the interviewer's eyes, when listening to the question AND when replying. Or in the fan videos, when she is having a casual conversation with someone at the stands, even if the other person looks somewhere else when replying, she still keeps on looking at the person straight in the eyes. When watching others female skaters being interviewed or interacting with others it is usually different: they look up, down or to the sides as they talk or respond to a question. This is a normal form of interaction, and I think we all do it to a certain degree. I am not saying in any way Tessa is superior to those other female athletes. My point is, that Tessa seem to have that characteristic, that intensity and sharpness in the way she looks at people, how she interacts visually with those around her and when she engages in conversation in a formal or casual manner. This has NOTHING to do with her being suggestive or slutty in any way. However, she does seem to be a very intense/"focused" person. Has anyone else noticed that? What do you think about it? That, and in the way she handles pain, does says a lot about her inner strength. I feel a lot of admiration for Tessa and feel very drawn to her persona, even if I have not idea what kind of person she really is. I can only say she is a very special!

(I apologize if my ideas are a little difficult to understand. English is my second language, but I hope I did take my point across...)