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  1. #61

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    Haha I see them now! Wow, embarrassing.

    Anyways I was going to say this awhile ago, but I forgot. I would like to thank all the people that came in here hoping Tessa was ok, even though they said they're really fans of D/W. I thought that was nice. I hope they're both ok, but particularly Tessa, I keep thinking of them.

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  3. #63
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    Thank you all for pics vids etc. Sarahrainfall loved especially the fanart. While I love the black and white, I thought the SD one would make a very impressive banner. You'd be able to see it from one side of rink to the other. They are such beautiful people. I love their elegant lines and matchless chemistry

  4. #64
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    Whose suit is Scott drowning in? He should get suits tailored by the same person who makes his skating costumes (except find someone who can sew buttons on better ).

    Quote Originally Posted by girlscouse62 View Post
    While I love the black and white, I thought the SD one would make a very impressive banner. You'd be able to see it from one side of rink to the other.
    That's a great idea!
    Last edited by sap5; 02-12-2013 at 08:56 PM.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by sap5 View Post
    Whose suit is Scott drowning in? He should get suits tailored by the same person who makes his skating costumes (except find someone who can sew buttons on better).
    This is the same costume from Nice. It looked better with Tessa dress there.
    Did he was without button on exibition costume again? He need to find girlfriend

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayii View Post
    Haha I see them now! Wow, embarrassing.

    Anyways I was going to say this awhile ago, but I forgot. I would like to thank all the people that came in here hoping Tessa was ok, even though they said they're really fans of D/W. I thought that was nice. I hope they're both ok, but particularly Tessa, I keep thinking of them.
    lol, I had the same problem. It took me the longest time to see the dolphins!

    also, nice post


    re: the marks

    martyross, I agree that different panels are going to see things differently, so it is difficult to make predictions about how worlds will be judges. What troubles me, though, is that I do not feel that some teams are getting credit for the difficulty of their choreography, amongst other things. I am going to pick up on something Cherub721, aka_gerbil, and bcmg hit on in the previous thread, because that pretty much sums up how I feel about a lot of the judging this season and its potential effects on future programs. I have felt for a while that P&B do not receive credit for the difficulty of their transitions and for their spatial management. Look at the changes of direction and changes of hold, and the ways in which they use the space between each other and around them. very, very difficult. And they skate nice and close together. I know they had hoped to challenge the top two teams this season, and I wonder how they must be feeling.

    And I am an I/K uber and think they are immensely talented, but I was really disappointed to see them receive the kinds of marks they did at Euros for a program that is really lacking in terms of transitions. I think the judges were generous with them, to say the least. I hope they will push themselves to explore more difficult choreography in spite of this, because I think they can be amazing.

    And I was honestly perplexed at the scoring of the SD at 4CC in terms of PCS. Tessa and Scott have a variety of transitions (three turns, twizzles, held edges, mostly one-foot skating, all with varied body positions--just look at when Tessa leans back and holds her edge)...extremely difficult work, and the elements are just woven into the program. Also, in P/E I wonder how much line and carriage is taken into account (clarity, the "refined lines of the body and limbs"). I also think that extended arms and free legs can slow a skater down as they are expanding the surface area of their bodies and will thus meet more air resistance/drag force, which will decrease their velocity. something to think about when considering speed with respect to the other aspects of PCS.

    So, like others, I feel like this will encourage teams to play it safe in terms of choreography. If difficult transitions will not give you an edge, you are better off, in terms of marks, going for less complicated choreography that will maximize your chances of achieving your levels.

    sorry for rambling.
    Last edited by Bournekraatzfan; 02-12-2013 at 10:18 PM. Reason: typo

  7. #67

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    The dolphins took their time making their presence known to me.........It's so nice to be warped at my age, and I hope it never changes
    Addicted to FSU

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    Clarie.. Likewise ! Never mind second glance, try 3, 4, 5..I really had to struggle to start seeing dolphins , and then it took a while to get up to 9 .

    I just hope this doesn't mean I'm obsessed.

  9. #69
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    Carmen never horrified me, not even in a good way I mean, I'm okay with dolphins and the like

  10. #70
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    BourneKraatzfan, excellent post and I'm really glad you mentioned P&B.

    I'm always shocked (though I shouldn't be at this point) when people comment on how they only won their bronze last year due to politics and/or they aren't that good and are about to be passed by other more worthy teams. I've always felt that P&B should be much closer to the top two than the judges have been indicating with their marks. Granted when Tessa and Scott are skating up to their potential (which I realize they have had their issues this year) I would have P&B behind them but P&B are still being slotted into 3rd place no matter what. I really did feel that this season would be different.

    Some of us expressed worry over whether the mishap (understatement) in the FD would cost V&M a shot at the gold on home turf. However, I'm wondering/hoping that Fabian's injury and P&B's subsequent withdrawal from Europeans won't cost them as well.

    Thanks to everyone who is providing links to gifs, pictures, articels and their own event reviews. Much appreciated.

    ETA:
    I guess I should be ashamed to mention that even though I think the sexed up Carmen talk is overblown, I didn't see any dolphins until someone suggested paying attention to the negative space. Ahem.....

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bournekraatzfan View Post
    I have felt for a while that P&B do not receive credit for the difficulty of their transitions and for their spatial management. Look at the changes of direction and changes of hold, and the ways in which they use the space between each other and around them. very, very difficult. And they skate nice and close together. I know they had hoped to challenge the top two teams this season, and I wonder how they must be feeling.
    ...
    And I was honestly perplexed at the scoring of the SD at 4CC in terms of PCS. Tessa and Scott have a variety of transitions (three turns, twizzles, held edges, mostly one-foot skating, all with varied body positions--just look at when Tessa leans back and holds her edge)...extremely difficult work, and the elements are just woven into the program. Also, in P/E I wonder how much line and carriage is taken into account (clarity, the "refined lines of the body and limbs"). I also think that extended arms and free legs can slow a skater down as they are expanding the surface area of their bodies and will thus meet more air resistance/drag force, which will decrease their velocity. something to think about when considering speed with respect to the other aspects of PCS.


    It's really disappointing to see that this is not being given credit by the judges in the ice dance competition. These ARE the elements that make ice dancing what it is. Skaters like Kostner and Chan can get great marks when they pop/fall on jumps because of these factors... why do they count more in singles than dance? It's baffling to me. And V&M put it together with cleanly executed, mostly level 4 elements, so it's not like they slack on the technical side at all.

    I too thought I&K were generously marked at Euros, and I love them also, but I think that was a product of the lack of depth there and the fact that B&S and C&L also have some big deficiencies in their skating. I still believe P&B will eat all the other European couples for breakfast.

    But hey if this is what is rewarded then maybe V&M should go to Morozov next season and they can skate to Carrie: The Musical.

  12. #72
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    As a 17 year old who went through the shift not so long ago, I can say that I don't remember much of an in-between. I either got the sexual references, or I didn't. Programs like Carmen shouldn't have much of an effect on kids, because if they are that young, they would not see anything out of the ordinary. If they know enough to realize what it implies, then they clearly already know what's going on. I would actually love to go back and be able to see the programs in the perspective of a child. I think it'd reveal things that we don't even notice.

  13. #73

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    Re: the marks especially the PCS.
    I think V/M got dinged a bit because of the stop. Now I realize that there are some who would argue that there wasn't any hit at all, but I would beg to differ. I remember reading somewhere on this board how V/M were getting better marks before their stop. Afterwards, there was a drop. Also, someone posted about stoppages and how there wouldn't be a deduction but that judges could lower the PCS. Drats if I can recall it correctly so am going to either 1) find that post or 2) find it in the rules.

    OK, found the post by sedge in the comp topic about dance and here's what caught my attention
    It is hard to find..but in Communication # 1619 following the 2010 Congress it says

    2. Fresh start: the deduction of -2.0 will be no longer applied in case of a fresh start; the Judges however will be
    advised that a “fresh start” might negatively influence the Components scores.
    I bolded the part that I found interesting. Here is it, an "opportunity" to reduce the score in components should a judge feel the need because a fresh start is given. I would suggest that at least *some* of the judges may have lowered their PCS marks for V/M in the FD, even if subconsciously, because of the stoppage.
    Crazy about sports!

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    In case anyone is interested (won't post the link I was sent), the icenetwork forum has a thread where someone posted that perhaps Tessa had to go along continuing to compete despite her pain because it was Scott wanted. Does he seem to be a bit overcontrolling of her at this point? Years back I wonder if he sort of insinuated that he'd maybe do some shows together if he could, but, if needed, would consider seeking another partner to continue on to Sochi. I am not hating, just want her to be happy and that includes physically as she ages.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by smileyskate View Post
    In case anyone is interested (won't post the link I was sent), the icenetwork forum has a thread where someone posted that perhaps Tessa had to go along continuing to compete despite her pain because it was Scott wanted. Does he seem to be a bit overcontrolling of her at this point? Years back I wonder if he sort of insinuated that he'd maybe do some shows together if he could, but, if needed, would consider seeking another partner to continue on to Sochi. I am not hating, just want her to be happy and that includes physically as she ages.
    I would seriously find this NOT in character for Scott, not with everything I have seen and read about how much he cares for her -- in the best of friends vein. Did these people not see the tender way he was with her in the KnC, how protective he was on the podium? This is a young man who practiced with a sack of flour while Tessa recovered from surgery, FGS. Yeah, they had some rough times but what couple doesn't? Who are these nut cases?
    Crazy about sports!

  16. #76
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    The only thing I've ever heard is the two state the other is the only other partner for them. I remember other people speculating that Scott could skate with someone else but not him.

  17. #77
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    I think, when they got back, he asked her if she was okay. Furthermore, I do not recall Scott ever stating that he'd try to find another partner, even if it was what many people here and elsewhere asked of him.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by smileyskate View Post
    Years back I wonder if he sort of insinuated that he'd maybe do some shows together if he could, but, if needed, would consider seeking another partner to continue on to Sochi.
    If he did say that, honestly, that would be his right. They are an athletic team; if he said to her he'd like to continue skating in Olympic-style competition and that he would understand if she couldn't and if so he would find another partner, then there's nothing wrong with that. (Not saying this happened, just that I would hold nothing against him if it did, and I don't think it's a sign of him having an ego). And it would be her right to continue or refuse.

    Frankly I'm just so sick of all of the insinuations that Tessa is this frail, feeble little girl who's not only physically injured but also can't think for herself (I'm not talking about your post). I googled the icenetwork thing and I see a lot of it there and on other sites as well (GS).

    This is an adult woman who has agency over her life and is perfectly capable of owning her choices. I absolutely love that Scott is protective of her, but I don't want people to mistake that for weakness on her part. I think it's hot that Scott can be brusque with the cameraman but totally tender to Tessa at the same time. I love that. But just because he chooses to play that role in public doesn't mean he controls everything the team does. I mean who wanted Funny Face, who suggested working with a modern dance choreographer.... it wasn't Scott.

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    If he did say that, honestly, that would be his right. They are an athletic team; if he said to her he'd like to continue skating in Olympic-style competition and that he would understand if she couldn't and if so he would find another partner, then there's nothing wrong with that. (Not saying this happened, just that I would hold nothing against him if it did, and I don't think it's a sign of him having an ego). And it would be her right to continue or refuse.

    Frankly I'm just so sick of all of the insinuations that Tessa is this frail, feeble little girl who's not only physically injured but also can't think for herself (I'm not talking about your post). I googled the icenetwork thing and I see a lot of it there and on other sites as well (GS).

    This is an adult woman who has agency over her life and is perfectly capable of owning her choices. I absolutely love that Scott is protective of her, but I don't want people to mistake that for weakness on her part. I think it's hot that Scott can be brusque with the cameraman but totally tender to Tessa at the same time. I love that. But just because he chooses to play that role in public doesn't mean he controls everything the team does. I mean who wanted Funny Face, who suggested working with a modern dance choreographer.... it wasn't Scott.
    I'd rep you if I could. You're absolutely right -- Tessa steers her own path and it's why she's such a great Carmen.
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    I think Tessa is more of a leader than most people make her look so. You can see that a lot more during practice.

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