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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    Maybe they can have shared custody?
    There you go--weekends with Ziggy, school nights with the Queen. Ziggy better let him post here. He'll clear up the above discussion, eh.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    There you go--weekends with Ziggy, school nights with the Queen. Ziggy better let him post here. He'll clear up the above discussion, eh.
    He'll be complaining that not enough skaters use Ave Maria before you know it. They grow up SO fast.
    The fastest thing out of New Jersey since Tricky Nicky in a Muscovian handbasket

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    Can't wait to do a pbp with him.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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    I remember seeing a news report where some Vatican expert said Benedict would be living in a cottage at the bottom of the Vatican garden. I suppose it makes sense since so many of the Catholic clergy are familiar with cottaging.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by numbers123 View Post
    yet what is sin? I struggle with the concept of sin. To say I am born into sin, without knowledge of sin is irrational. One must learn to differentiate what is right and wrong and act accordingly. We are all subject to the evils of sin - that is what happens when you are given free choice. The Church needs to carefully view topics that previously were not addressed and consider what Jesus would do. Trite sentence, I just can't figure out how best to say it. Jesus challenged the status quo. Did not pass by the issues of the day, asked us to accept people where they are, recognize that people are born who they are and just because certain rules have been in place by the leaders of the church doesn't change how we should treat them. There is more to the story of the Good Samaritan that we want to consider. Insert a gay man sitting at the side of the road, hurt, bleeding and in need of acceptance - someone outside the church offers help and acceptance. Would we not be charged with the same actions? The Catholic church and in general Christian churches have transitioned too much to a status quo state.
    That would not be a sin issue in all Christian churches. The Episcopal Church ordains gay ministers.

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    There have been several "splinters" from the Episcopal Church as a result.
    However, I am proud of my church for moving toward greater tolerance and inclusion, even when it is difficult for some to accept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    There have been several "splinters" from the Episcopal Church as a result.
    However, I am proud of my church for moving toward greater tolerance and inclusion, even when it is difficult for some to accept.
    I agree. Our church has two female ministers. One is gay, the other is Matthew Broderick's sister. They are both wonderful women!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    It's interesting to consider closed Communion. My husband was raised Catholic. His mother was a very strong practicing Catholic. However, my husband was married and divorced. I was raised Episcopalian, so that is the church we married in. For a very long time my husband's mother feared for her son's soul, since he was no longer "Catholic". At least his marriage was not recognized. I did try to reassure her that the Episcopal church was very similar to the Catholic church. When she came to visit, she went to the Episcopal church with us, but did not take Communion. The year before she passed away, she went to midnight mass with us, at the Episcopal church. When it came time for Communion, she got up to receive. I was stunned. And I asked her about it. She looked at me and said, you know what? You're right, we are the same. We believe the same thing. She was 81 at the time.

    I never had a problem receiving Communion in a Catholic church. I have never believed that God or Jesus cared what building I was in or who gave me the Eucharist. I have always believed it was more about how I live my life.
    While I wouldn't take Communion in the Epscopalian Church I do think I have more in common with Protestants than I have against..... And in the end it is the same God. And honestly too although far less so more in common with the devout Muslim...(well depending on the version!) One of the things I love about being Catholic is the Church doesn't say the devout Muslim is condemned to Hell. But rather talks about Natural law...And God taking into account People's intentions.

    I still feel there's more to it than mere Christianity..

    (from Numbers)
    as far as I am concerned, when Communion is offered/given it means that the life and breath of Jesus is within the breaking of the bread and sharing of the wine. This sharing of the Holy Spirit is not restricted to the special holy people of the Catholic church but to all of us. I suppose that in my misunderstanding of the Catholic Church's communion practices, when I participated during the wedding ceremony of my friend - I committed sin and caused this transgression to seep onto those who administered it to me.
    The Catholic church seems hell bent on making the Christianity religion for only some people and not all people.
    As for communion, I understand in the Methodist church there's a variety of opinions on Communion just like there's a variety of opinions about everything in Communion.

    As for Catholicism creating an "elite club".. The Church says the sacraments are for Catholics; however its not like the Church says others can't be Catholic....Protestants aren't stopped from having communion in their own circles and if a Protestant is in desperate need at times it will be allowed...Catholicism recognizes Protestant baptism a lot of Protestants don't recognize Catholic baptism. Methodism does recognize Catholic baptism.

    I understand the principals of open communion but some of it comes from a different understanding of communion or church unity.. Or Church believes Christians literally must be one church before open communion. Its not like Catholicism is stopping Protestants from having communion amongst themselves.

    However once again, we as Catholics don't believe we are just sharing the Holy Spirit we believe we are taking in Christ's actual body. And we think handing over Christ's body to those who don't discern his Body is very serious thing. There are many Protestants who truly believe its just a piece of bread.

    But you have to understand we Worship the Eucharist. Are you willing to worship the Eucharist? We truly believe that after the consecration its Jesus.....Are you willing to worship that as Jesus. And if you don't/can't. Can you see why for us that is a huge obstacle.

    I honestly think Protestants who don't believe in this should have huge issues with what we are doing..
    Last edited by bek; 02-17-2013 at 03:13 AM.

  9. #229
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    A rude Amerikan Pope? Not so fast.
    Last edited by IceAlisa; 02-17-2013 at 05:16 AM.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    And if you don't/can't. Can you see why for us that is a huge obstacle.
    I can't. Communion is between the individual and God, just like everything else. You have no idea the state of anyone's heart, or their beliefs. They don't ask each person what they believe before taking communion, they leave it up to the individual, and could all be lying for all you know. It's between them and God. I don't see the harm in open communion at all, and I take communion extremely seriously for myself.

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    I thought being Pope was for life. Kind of like a Supreme Court judge. Well, here's hoping for the sake of more liberal-thinking Catholics that a younger Pope with more modern ideas is elected. Beginning with celibate priests. The 12 Apostles were all married. Roman Catholic priests should be allowed to marry too if they so choose-and have children. Some priests ARE married but only if they agree to live as brother and sister with their spouse. IIRC from my long-ago Catholic school teachings, some Pope centuries after Christ decided that due to the hardships of travelling involved it would be better if priests did not marry. But that's just not the case today. It hasn't been actually I'd say for at least the last century and a half since transportation improved dramatically. And I absolutely believe birth control should be addressed. Although-don't they allow the use of condoms now to combat AIDS?
    Last edited by Sasha'sSpins; 02-17-2013 at 06:59 AM.
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    The Catholic Church acknowledges other denominations as Christian. From the catechism:

    817In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

    Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

    818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

    819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    I can't. Communion is between the individual and God, just like everything else. You have no idea the state of anyone's heart, or their beliefs. They don't ask each person what they believe before taking communion, they leave it up to the individual, and could all be lying for all you know. It's between them and God. I don't see the harm in open communion at all, and I take communion extremely seriously for myself.
    Communion isn't just between the individual and God. Communion is where Christians become one with God and with each other. I.e in Catholic teaching by partaking of Christ's glorified body we become with each other...All united in Christ's body. Communion then isn't just about you and Jesus.

    For the record of course the Church can't know who is Catholic who isn't. It can only state the requirements and leave it up for the individuals to be truthful or not.

    At the heart of this is a very different understanding of what the Church is. Catholics believe Jesus Christ established one visible Church. And so we believe the existence of all the separate sects/divisions is a result of human sin. This sin is because of sin we committed too. (We are no innocents) But we believe God wants and demands Communion with each other.

    There is a Scripture verse that talks about healing the rift with your brother before taking. In our mind we cannot profess in Communion right now what is not true. While all Christians are tied together in a mystical way right now we very much are separated brothers/sisters. We are not speaking with once voice...We don't even agree with what is going on in Communion.. As such we can't say there's a unity that is not there.

    And for the record I never said Protestants don't take Communion seriously. I know I did, but a lot of Protestants don't take it the same way. Some do but most don't take it the way we do.

    We would point out this Scripture verse

    1 Corinthians 11: 27 Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be
    guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.

    While Protestants may feel differently we'd say not recognizing its the Body and Blood of Christs could hurt many. Thus the Church insists as “We call this food Eucharist; and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true…”
    -Justin Martyr -FIRST APOLOGY, 66,20–(150 A.D.)
    Last edited by bek; 02-17-2013 at 07:40 AM.

  14. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    No. Pedophiles do not molest children because they are single. That is a complete misunderstanding of that pathology.
    Coming from a Protestant background into the Catholic church, I see the issue of married priests from a different perspective. The pressure on spouses and children of pastors is very damaging sometimes. And the job of a pastor/priest is very consuming often leaving inadequate time to nurture a marriage and be a good parent. In that respect, celibacy frees priests to devote their whole energy to the church and does not leave a spouse or children without adequate attention/devotion from a husband/father. At the same time, it also makes it difficult for priests to have balance and space away from their work.
    Thank you! I still can't believe it when people say such things and are so misinformed about pedophiles! Orthodox priests, Protestant ministers and Jewish Rabbis who are married have also been accused of child molestation. Marriage most certainly does not prevent a pedophile from committing child sexual abuse! On the other hand, I was raised Catholic and fortunately I was never molested by any priest nor heard of one who was accused of doing so. It does happen though and I am very sensitive to that. But the priest's marriage state or lack thereof has nothing to do with it!

    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    I read that there was a death in Ireland that could have been prevented if abortion had been legal:

    http://storyofwomen.wordpress.com/

    I'm not sure if Ireland qualifies as a "third world country" where access to other medical care is limited.

    I just hope that the new pontiff does something about the abuse cases (including the Irish laundries) other than protecting the higher ups who didn't do anything in response to the reports.
    Thank you for the link to this tragedy that could have been avoided.

    Reprehensible. That story just makes me so mad.

    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    I think an African pope could happen.... He actually wouldn't be the first though Pope Victor I was from Africa...(Although don't know what his skin color was...) In fact there were a few from North Africa...
    Judging from portraits, Pope Victor I appears to have been white or light-skinned. Here's one: http://www.archelaos.com/popes/image.aspx?id=51

    Quote Originally Posted by centerstage01 View Post
    I know you're supposed to give up something for Lent but this seems a bit much.
    Best post of the thread!!

    Quote Originally Posted by rjblue View Post
    It's not a blessing. It's the sacrament of marriage. And you should only receive any sacrament if you are a practicing Catholic with proper intentions. Otherwise it would be sinning.

    I would hope that some time in the future there will be a Pope from Africa. Hopefully she'll be a woman- technically- you don't have to be an ordained priest to be the Pope.
    There is a legend of a Pope Joan. I didn't know about it myself though til I saw the tv movie about her legend last year.

    Quote Originally Posted by zaphyre14 View Post
    It's Baptism, First Communion, First Confession/Penance, then Confirmation in my Diocese. Comunion is 2nd grade, Confession is 4th grade and Confirmation is High school, generally grades 10 or 11. When I was a child Communion and Confession were done together but somewhere along the line since they've split them up. The reason I heard was that 4th graders are better able to understand the concept of Confession and Penance than 2nd graders.
    Interesting! In my day the order was Baptism, First Confession, First Communion, then Confirmation. I was 5 when I was baptized as were my nephews years later. The reason I was given was they couldn't find godparents for me and for my sister's kids it was the same. They just wanted to wait until they felt they could ask the people they were comfortable with to stand as godparents. My First Confession (now called Reconciliation) was several weeks before First Communion. I loved my First Holy Communion especially the ritual, my dress and the wreath of flowers we girls wore instead of a veil. I remember a few years later being annoyed with Confirmation. It didn't feel like I had a choice-like it was just expected of me. And I envied some cousins who got to do their Confirmation when they were older and could decide for themselves if they wanted to be Soldiers of Christ. I did get to pick out my Confirmation name though.

    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    Many of my Catholic friends feel very comfortable when visiting the Episcopal church.
    I remember my 6th grade teacher Mr. Quinn telling us that he once went to an Episcopalian church but didn't realize till about halfway that it wasn't Roman Catholic!

    I've enjoyed reading everyone's post here and had no idea that so many non-Catholics as well as former Catholics would pipe in and give their (at times witty !) point of views! I am a fallen-away Catholic with Pagan leanings myself, I guess I do still consider myself a 'cultural' Catholic as it were but in any event, I do hope for the sake of practicing Catholics that the next Pope is at least willing to listen to more forward thinking for the 21st century. Pope Benedicts stance on condoms really was a shock and a pleasant surprize for me-never thought it'd happen in my lifetime so who knows? Small steps.
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  15. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Communion isn't just between the individual and God. Communion is where Christians become one with God and with each other. I.e in Catholic teaching by partaking of Christ's glorified body we become with each other...All united in Christ's body. Communion then isn't just about you and Jesus.
    Everyone taking communion is taking communion together, but the act itself, and what you believe it to be, only you and God know.

    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    And for the record I never said Protestants don't take Communion seriously. I know I did, but a lot of Protestants don't take it the same way. Some do but most don't take it the way we do.
    bek - you said that some Protestants think communion is just bread. I know some Catholics also think communion is just bread. Some Protestants don't take communion seriously. Some Catholics don't take communion seriously. Aside from a few very good friends of mine, and my uncle (who is a chaplain at a Catholic school) who are Catholic, every other Catholic I know takes communion because that's what they've been taught to do. I took communion - heck, I took my first Holy Communion, because everyone else did. Every single person in my class had their first Holy Communion on the same day. Do you think we were all ready for that, and understood it? I did all of the steps, went to all of the classes, because that's what everyone did. My family did it, my class and school did it, their families did it. Only two are still Catholic. You say the collective "we" meaning all Catholics, but you really should be saying "I", because you can actually only speak for yourself when you say how you take communion seriously, you have no idea how everyone else takes it, only how you want - and your church says - they should take it. Your church really doesn't know (and more than mine does) - like I said, it's between God and the individual.

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    I would say the defining feature of Christian inclusion is the acceptance of baptism--not the eucharist. When a denomination accepts the baptism of another, they are affirming that the others are part of the Christian family. Catholics accept the baptism of Protestants. Some Protestants will accept a Catholic baptism, but not all. The issue for some Protestants isn't whether it's done by a Catholic Priest, but whether it is done with the full consent of the person baptized. Therefore an infant baptism by some will not be considered necessarily valid. Some Baptists will ask for the person to be baptized again since a baptism is only seen as valid if it follows becoming born again. Other Baptists will allow a pre-born again baptism if the person accepts the regeneration of that earlier baptism. IOW, it's left up to person if they want to be baptized by immersion now or not. But if a person was baptized Catholic after becoming born again, that baptism is seen as valid and binding.

    The defining factor of who is considered Christian writ large is whether their baptisms are accepted as valid by other denominations. With some caveats, Catholics and Protestants recognize each other as Christian more or less because they accept each other's baptisms. The one group whose baptisms are not considered valid by any Protestant or Catholic church are members of the Latter Day Saints movements. That is why LDS are not considered Christian at the denominational level.

    The issue of the eucharist is more an ecclesial matter rather than defining who is Christian. For example, some churches believe you must be born again, and you must be truly penitent for your sins in order to receive the Lord's Supper. If either is untrue, you drink eternal condemnation upon yourself. So they will have a rather extensive self-introspection time, and the eucharist will not be given to everyone in the congregation, but only those who self-select in a separate part of the service.

    Then you have the open communion table practiced by some that don't even require a person to be Christian to partake. This would be heresy for some, but is widely practiced by others. Some believe you have to drink from the same cup, while other denominations believe the congregation must drink at the same time, so issue separate cups to each individual. Some churches have modified their eucharistic practices based on public health concerns, so only allow the celebrant to touch the bread, and encourage intinction for receiving the wine/juice. Catholics theoretically restrict communion to Catholics and certain Orthodox traditions, but in reality leave it up to the individual to take or not take. IOW, if someone goes up for communion, the priest isn't going to turn them away (with exceptions of the person being known to be excommunicated by the priest). In Missouri and Wisconsin Synod Lutheran churches, the pastor will absolutely stop the service during communion to ask if someone they don't know is indeed Lutheran of an appropriately observant church before allowing them to take communion. So while in theory Catholics have a close communion, in practice their communion table is pretty open. The same cannot be said for some Protestant traditions.

    But that's because Christianity itself isn't necessarily being affirmed in the Eucharist, but rather the contours of a particular ecclesial community. Inclusion or exclusion from the eucharist does not signify acceptance of another's Christianity. Rather it signifies acceptance of an individual into a particular ecclesial community.
    Last edited by agalisgv; 02-17-2013 at 02:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    And for the record I never said Protestants don't take Communion seriously. I know I did, but a lot of Protestants don't take it the same way. Some do but most don't take it the way we do.
    You are assuming that all Catholics understand the Eucharist the way you do. I would guess that many Roman Catholics do not believe as strongly as you do. Should they receive Communion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post
    Thank you! I still can't believe it when people say such things and are so misinformed about pedophiles!
    But, I did not say pedophiles in my post. I said molestation. There is a history of Catholic Priests and Nuns having sexual relations, consensual and not. My point was why celibacy? If humans have physical needs, why would the church deny them? Especially a church that feels so strongly about not using birth control.

    I remember my 6th grade teacher Mr. Quinn telling us that he once went to an Episcopalian church but didn't realize till about halfway that it wasn't Roman Catholic!
    The Episcopal service is probably closer to the older Roman Catholic service than the "current, new" Catholic service. Especially in high Episcopal churches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    You are assuming that all Catholics understand the Eucharist the way you do. I would guess that many Roman Catholics do not believe as strongly as you do. Should they receive Communion?
    Technically, a Catholic who is not currently in a state of grace should sit out from communion. If they do not or no longer believe in the transubstantiation of the Eucharist, no they shouldn't take it. The Eucharist IS the body of Christ. It isn't a representation. If you listen to the mass, that is made very clear.

    Many Catholics take communion when they shouldn't according to the Catechism. I'm not the one to judge their actions, and they shouldn't judge mine. That is only up to God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post
    Thank you! I still can't believe it when people say such things and are so misinformed about pedophiles! Orthodox priests, Protestant ministers and Jewish Rabbis who are married have also been accused of child molestation. Marriage most certainly does not prevent a pedophile from committing child sexual abuse!
    I don't think the argument is that marriage would prevent pedophiles from abusing children.

    I think the argument in favor of allowing priests to marry is that the profession would then attract people who want to marry, which is a majority of people out there in the world.

    By its current policies, the Church excludes candidates who would want a committed adult heterosexual relationship and puts itself in the position of having to choose its priests from among men who

    * are attracted to women but are willing to forgo sexual relationships because they feel a stronger commitment to serving God and community

    * are attracted to men but are willing to forgo sexual relationships because they feel a stronger commitment to serving God and community (and know they shouldn't have homosexual relationships even if they weren't priests, but that's less important than the religious calling)

    * are completely asexual

    Ideally, from the Church's point of view, all priest candidates would come from the above categories.

    However, in reality, what happens is that they also get men who are attracted to the same sex and/or to children but not to adult women, know that acting on those attractions is forbidden, and

    4) believe that their attraction to men is trivial and they'll grow out of them, and that the important fact about their sexuality is the lack of interest in adult women, which they interpret to mean that they are called to commit to the Church instead of to a wife

    In a world where homosexuality is accepted (outside the priesthood), men in this category would just identify as gay and live their lives as gay men rather than interpreting their lack of desire for women as a sign that they are called to religious celibacy. Probably that has been happening, which could explain part of the shortage of candidates for priesthood.

    *believe that their attraction to children is trivial and they'll grow out of it, and that the important fact about their sexuality is the lack of interest in adult women, which they interpret to mean that they are called to commit to the Church instead of to a wife

    *know that their "perverse" desires are strong but believe that dedicating themselves religion will help them resist temption

    However, they may discover that the attraction is not trivial and is not so easy to resist after all, at least without therapy.

    *know that their lust toward children is strong and have no intention of resisting, but are actively drawn toward a profession that will allow them access to children under cover of respectability

    It's the guys in these three categories who pose a danger to children.

    Allowing priests to marry would not prevent such men from desiring children sexually or acting on that desire.

    What it would do is give the Church a wider pool of potential priests, so they could reject applicants who show indications of pursuing priesthood primarily to escape their own sexual demons.

    The lack of the mystique of celibacy would also lessen the attraction of the priesthood to such individuals.

    Pedophilic attraction would still exist -- and how to deal with it is a problem for the society at large.

    But the number of pedophilic individuals in the priesthood, the number of priests choosing that profession for the wrong reasons, would be reduced. So it would be no more of a problem or part of the culture within this profession than in, say, education or sports coaching -- where, yes, pedophiles exist and are often married.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    bek - you said that some Protestants think communion is just bread. I know some Catholics also think communion is just bread. Some Protestants don't take communion seriously. Some Catholics don't take communion seriously. Aside from a few very good friends of mine, and my uncle (who is a chaplain at a Catholic school) who are Catholic, every other Catholic I know takes communion because that's what they've been taught to do. I took communion - heck, I took my first Holy Communion, because everyone else did. Every single person in my class had their first Holy Communion on the same day. Do you think we were all ready for that, and understood it? I did all of the steps, went to all of the classes, because that's what everyone did. My family did it, my class and school did it, their families did it. Only two are still Catholic. You say the collective "we" meaning all Catholics, but you really should be saying "I", because you can actually only speak for yourself when you say how you take communion seriously, you have no idea how everyone else takes it, only how you want - and your church says - they should take it. Your church really doesn't know (and more than mine does) - like I said, it's between God and the individual.
    Sigh. Angelskates you are asking me why Catholicism says only Catholics should receive Communion. It is not the lay people who don't believe in transubstation who makes these rules. It is the official Church. So if you are going to question why the OFFICIAL church makes these rules, it is fair to bring up what the Catholic Church officially teaches about the Eucharist.

    And what I'm saying is the official teaching of the Catholic Church. There are things in the Catholic Church that are not defined, that Catholics are free to disagree about and still be within the bounds of Catholicism. This is why in someways there's far more diversity amongst Catholics.

    However there are things in Catholic teaching that are clearly defined, infallibly spoken. They are considered "essential" all Catholics are required to believe it. The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Is one of those things. It is defined in the Church councils. Nobody not even the Pope can change this teaching. Every denomination has its core teachings that define them. Every Church has official teachings. Just because there may be some who go to and attend those Churches and maybe disagree or dissent does not change what those core teachings are.

    The Eucharist being really and truly our Lord Jesus Christ is at the core teaching of the Catholic Church. Its the heart of the Catholic Church. There are many Catholics who struggle with the teachings of the Church in a lot of areas but stay because of the Eucharist. It is sad there are Catholics who don't understand this. But the Church does what is in their power to make them understand. It is why our Church has people genuflect when entering Church. It is why Catholics bow before taking the Eucharist. And it is why Eucharist adoration is so heavily encouraged in the Church. All to promote to Catholics are believe that Christ is Really Present in the Eucharist. It has something our Church has taught for 2,000 year. And as I said before its our very heart.


    And of course the Catholic Church cannot read the hearts and minds of people. It can't know if they are Catholic, it cannot know if they are in mortal sin etc. That is between them and God. But they can tell people guidelines if they should or should not receive. As Agasliv mentioned nobody is presented with 20 questions before partaking of the Eucharist.

    But you can't have it both ways. You can't say its unfair Catholicism restricts it, and then when I say why, say well not every Catholic believes that. Because the Church would tell those Catholics, they shouldn't be receiving either if they don't believe that.


    I think the argument in favor of allowing priests to marry is that the profession would then attract people who want to marry, which is a majority of people out there in the world.

    The majority of pedophiles are straight and married
    . Marriage brings them far more access to children than non marriage. Now thank goodness since Churches everywhere are putting more restrictions. Marriage even more is going to be attractive to pedophiles....

    Pedophiles are going to find their ways to get to children. The best thing we can do is watch who are children are with and also punish them when they are caught... This is why we must talk to kids about what is appropriate and what is not.

    And for the record just because Catholic priests are celibate doesn't mean they don't have sexual desires. Rather they choose to give up these desires for the sake of the Kingdom of God. The Church teaches all non married Catholics should be doing the same. Not wanting to be married doesn't make you weird and it doesn't mean you would hurt children. Same with being gay. It doesn't make you more likely to hurt children either.

    The rate of sexual abuse in churches isn't "less" amongst those who have married clergy. Now one could argue the priestly shortage had the Church keeping men they shouldn't have..... However in faithful dioceses and places were Orthodox Catholicism is being encouraged, priestly vocations are going up...In parts of Asia and Africa its huge. So IMO the Church should weed out those who have issues and then see if we end up with a continued shortage than yes its time to discuss removing celibacy....
    Last edited by bek; 02-17-2013 at 06:01 PM.

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