U.S. Ladies [#7] Wagner's Rink Cycle

[Spun Silver]

It is spelled Kaetlyn. I know it is an odd spelling.

Why can't all the Caitlins spell their flippin' names the same way? The fans need regularized spelling in this sport!

[Nomad]

It could be worse. She could spell it "Q8tl'nne".

[demetriosj]

Speaking for myself I am referring to all the buzz on skating sites as well as the way Phil Hersh, who I guess is the no. 1 US sportswriter covering skating, has latched onto her as the great hope of US skating in column after column... and announced it to the world whenever she has fallen short. It may not be like the Kwan-Cohen era, but it's a lot for our diminished era.

Yes. It is nauseating the way he has fawned over Gracie since last Nationals.....

He suggested sending her disguised as Czisny to World's after the short program at World's last year (in one of his World's coverage columns), not funny.............

[fenway2]

Somebody please help me. I really want to be excited about Gracie but I still fail to see what everyone's so excited about.

I see the potential in her jumps.

Maybe I'm expecting more from her than I should. To me, 17/18 is more than old enough to have a good grasp on the basics of performing. I look at Michelle and Sasha at 17/18...or Mao and Yu-Na at 17/18: maturity, polish, artistry and then some. I know it's a little unfair to hold Gracie to such high standards but when people are constantly saying how wonderful she is, I'm thinking, "Well if she's so great, why is she 17 years old and still skating like a 13 year old?"

You see potential in her jumps? I simply see great jumps! The biggest thing Gracie needs to work on is consistency with her jumps but the height, amplitude and difficult is great. Of course Gracie isn't as refined as Sasha and Michelle but they never jumped like her. Right now the quality of their skating has eclipsed Gracie's in so many ways but she jumps better than they ever did. And isn't that exciting? Especially if (big if) she manages to build on that?

[Spun Silver]

It could be worse. She could spell it "Q8tl'nne".

Thank God for ridiculous blessings!

[PDilemma]

You see potential in her jumps? I simply see great jumps! The biggest thing Gracie needs to work on is consistency with her jumps but the height, amplitude and difficult is great. Of course Gracie isn't as refined as Sasha and Michelle but they never jumped like her. Right now the quality of their skating has eclipsed Gracie's in so many ways but she jumps better than they ever did. And isn't that exciting? Especially if (big if) she manages to build on that?

That is such a big if, though. A super-sized colossal one. Kwan did Salome at 15. Cohen was 17 at the 2002 Olympics. Kim was 17 and Asada was 18 in Vancouver. Yet somehow, Gold is so very young and needs all this time to develop something beyond the jumps?

[dawnie]

That is such a big if, though. A super-sized colossal one. Kwan did Salome at 15. Cohen was 17 at the 2002 Olympics. Kim was 17 and Asada was 18 in Vancouver. Yet somehow, Gold is so very young and needs all this time to develop something beyond the jumps?

Kim and Asada were both 19 in Vancouver.

[Jammers]

Skaters develop at different rates. Look at Maria Butyrskaya. She didn't make a name for herself until she was about 25-26. Or how about Arakawa who hadn't done much of anything until she was about 22. Or Nancy Kerrigan who was about the same age when she became a force internationally. Figure skating is full of examples of women who peaked in their early 20's after it looked like the would never be a top contender. Let Gracie develop at her own pace. She might not peak until she's about 21 but it will be worth it.

[centerstage01]

What Gracie needs is a choreographer that can highlight her strengths and disguise her weaknesses while she's working on improving said weaknesses. I find myself unable to REALLY like her because I think her programs this season are so bad. Her SP makes me cringe. It's a little hard to shake what your mama gave you when you don't really have the tatas to shake. Movements are made because someone told her to make them, not because the music dictates. I've got nothing to say about her technical skills because those are wonderful. I still love watching that 3L/3T at Nationals.

She and her coach desperately need to go choreographer shopping after Worlds if they aren't doing it now.

[demetriosj]

Let Gracie develop at her own pace. She might not peak until she's about 21 but it will be worth it.

Can you guarantee that?! You seem so sure of this happening.....

[aftershocks]

I do agree that she skates big and that her jumps and speed leave a good impression. Technically, she's solid with the exception of her flip, so I agree with that too.

I think she's a cute girl but there's nothing about her appearance that makes her stand out from the rest of the bottle blonde skaters out there...

As for her lines, they're okay but not great. Great is Mao Asada, Carolina Kostner, Adelina Sotnikova... Gracie's stiffness in her arms is distracting. There's way too much tension and it makes her arm movements look like flapping and gives her skating a slightly rigid look...

Regal quality comes from confidence, presence, ease and carriage. I've never seen Gracie perform with those qualities so I can't say I've even seen her look regal while skating...examples would be great...

Lol, Spun Silver!

I'm not trying to be a big ol' b*tch to Gracie, I swear. I'm just stating what I see and trying to understand what everyone else sees that's so amazing...I'm really curious as to why people are so enthralled by her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU78A1ezsJA

When Gracie is on, her jumps are quite amazing. And how we each view skaters' looks is subjective. I wouldn't say I'm "enthralled" by Gracie, but obviously she has great potential. I don't think "regal" has anything to do with it at this point in her career. But I think she's trying to work on her confidence, and on her arms and her presentation. She's learning how to compete in the pressure cooker of the senior ranks. She's also got to navigate the hype from people who tend toward being enthralled by her potential.

Gracie is a pretty girl, with long legs and a nice look on the ice. And with a magical name for a skater to boot! Although with all the hype, I hope her name doesn't get over-cliched from the tempting use of puns, before she has a chance to succeed. Both Gracie and Kaetlyn have a long way to go, but they both have talent and wonderful potential, which is nice to see in North American skating. Everything has to go just right for each of them, because figure skating is not easy.

I was reading something Petr Barna (who is now coaching) said on his website:

One thing is very important to know: there are no shortcuts in Figure skating, no magic, everything is hard work and patience.

Those are very wise words from an Olympic medalist and one of the finest skaters of his generation.

I agree there doesn't seem to be any magic involved in what is required to become a figure skater. However, when everything comes together just right after all the hard work, patience, diligence, more hard work, learning from falling down and getting up again (and with a huge dollop of luck), magical moments can happen on the ice. And when the magic happens in a performance, that's what makes the hard work and the steady belief in one's talent worthwhile. We fans need to practice patience too.

BTW, I think Sotnikova is extremely talented and she has wonderful artistic qualities, but right now I don't get from her anything regal or confident. Sotnikova has had her moments, but she's not pulled it altogether consistently yet. And for that matter, look how long it took Carolina to finally realize her regal potential! Carolina was supposed to be Italy's golden girl at the 2006 Olympics. It takes awhile for talented skaters when they are young to learn who they are and to be able to express that with confidence and with artistic maturity on the ice. Mao Asada and Yu Na Kim are also definitely regal and confident, but they still each have their weaknesses, and they each have sacrificed a lot to make it to the top. Just getting there and trying to maintain their position is another huge struggle.

I think Sasha, Michelle and Tara were simply precociously talented and both Sasha and Michelle were artistically mature at a young age, but that doesn't happen for everyone. And none of their paths were simple or easy just because they achieved success at young ages. Every skater has their own path, and their own unique journey. Also, only a lucky few get to stand on top of the podium at the Olympics. The important thing is in learning how after striving for and not necessarily winning gold, that there is gold in the effort and in the lessons learned. Figuring out how to mine that particular gold and how to appreciate one's blessings can take a lifetime.

Someone needs to tell Phil Hersh, the media, and the USFS (who should know already) that they need to practice patience too. Celebrate the victories of young talent, but tone down the hype, and learn how to continue giving encouragement and support when athletes falter or don't live up to the lofty expectations we set for them.


I love the new thread title too!

[demetriosj]

Any reports on how Ashley is doing?

[IceAlisa]

I've been checking her Twitter, she was supposed to start full run throughs last Monday. Nothing else other than the stolen laundry.

[Sylvia]

Nothing else other than the stolen laundry.

Wagner's tweet on Feb. 7:
"To whoever just stole my laundry basket, I have a very special set of skills...they just have nothing to do with getting my basket back.."

ETA that Maia Shibutani tweeted this female group photo from the Four Continents closing banquet yesterday:
"I miss these girls already! @christina_gao @agneszawadzki @GraceEGold #4CC2013" http://pic.twitter.com/xx2eYDd4

[aftershocks]

Wagner's tweet on Feb. 7:
"To whoever just stole my laundry basket, I have a very special set of skills...they just have nothing to do with getting my basket back.."

ETA that Maia Shibutani tweeted this female group photo from the Four Continents closing banquet yesterday:
"I miss these girls already! @christina_gao @agneszawadzki @GraceEGold #4CC2013" http://pic.twitter.com/xx2eYDd4

Thanks to you Sylvia, and to Maia for sharing that lovely photo of some gorgeous ladies!


Shame on whoever stole Ashley's basket. Tsk, tsk ... laundry cycles are enough of a drag without having one's laundry basket stolen, especially if the laundered clothes were still in it.

[Sasha'sSpins]

Somebody please help me. I really want to be excited about Gracie but I still fail to see what everyone's so excited about.

I see the potential in her jumps. Good height, distance and speed...good technique except for the flip. She's a gifted jumper, there's no denying that. Her basics are good, her spins are decent. She's a solid skater. However, I'm failing to see that spark of anything else special that would make me excited to watch her. So many girls have the ability to jump and spin, but for a few, there's something extra about them that makes them stand out:

Julia: Her presentation. It's very, very good for a 13 or 14 year old skater. She's ahead of the curve in terms of that. If she had choreography that would force her to listen to the music and utilize that presentation along with her flexibility, she could be amazing...plus she has difficult jumps.

Adelina: Lovely, mature presentation, gorgeous lines and extension, great flow...she's 16 years old but she's the only newbie who could legitimately give the top 3 skaters a run for their money at worlds...plus she has huge, difficult jumps.

Liza T: She has pizazz, attitude and fire when she performs and she does perform when she skates...plus she has difficult, textbook jumps.

Kaetlyn: She's a natural born performer who can connect with her music and the audience easily...plus she has nice jumps.

Zijun: Lovely, lyrical style and presentation and a great understanding of music...plus difficult jumps.

It's like everyone has something extra in addition to the jumps. With Gracie, I see huge jumps and a positive attitude about her skating...but that's it. I don't see natural grace from her; her skating is very stiff to me. Her arms are rigid almost airplane-y, her jump landings are abrupt and very Emily Hughes with the "Taa-daa!" arms. I don't see any kind of musical connection or understanding when she skates. She regurgitates choreography the way most younger skaters do meaning there's nothing behind her movements which leaves the program feeling empty. In terms of emotion, her face is either blank, plastered with a fake smile, or terrified looking.

Maybe I'm expecting more from her than I should. To me, 17/18 is more than old enough to have a good grasp on the basics of performing. I look at Michelle and Sasha at 17/18...or Mao and Yu-Na at 17/18: maturity, polish, artistry and then some. I know it's a little unfair to hold Gracie to such high standards but when people are constantly saying how wonderful she is, I'm thinking, "Well if she's so great, why is she 17 years old and still skating like a 13 year old?" There are a number of up-and-coming skaters who I'd place above Gracie b/c they display more than just jumps when they skate; however, most people don't know about them b/c for some reason the media is fixated on Gracie.

I'm really trying to be excited for her and cheer her on but as of now I'm just annoyed with her. Huge jumps are great but when they're delivered in a generic shell of a program with zero to connection to the bad music she's skating to, I feel let down and then really angry and confused b/c the media then proceeds to wax poetic about how marvelous and wonderful she is and how she's a star! Plus, I'd probably lay off of her some if she actually had some consistent skating to back up all of this praise but her skating has been sporadic all season long. She is 100% hit or miss right now.

I'm sorry to have a mini rant and I'm not trying to pick at her; I'm honestly trying to understand. I want to like her and, seeing as how NBC and USFSA has anointed her as the "golden child" something tells me I need to start liking her. But given her current level of skating and what she's managed to do this season, I'm hardly impressed and still wondering what makes Gracie Gold so great and worthy of this all this praise and attention?

Maybe somebody who actually gets it can help me understand...

Whole post!

What exactly is the "All-American" look?

Not sure but maybe to some it means white, and blond. Nagasu and Gao certainly have never been called 'All-American' nor Kwan or Yamaguchi before her that I can recall....

Skaters develop at different rates. Look at Maria Butyrskaya. She didn't make a name for herself until she was about 25-26. Or how about Arakawa who hadn't done much of anything until she was about 22. Or Nancy Kerrigan who was about the same age when she became a force internationally. Figure skating is full of examples of women who peaked in their early 20's after it looked like the would never be a top contender. Let Gracie develop at her own pace. She might not peak until she's about 21 but it will be worth it.

The same could be said for skaters like Mirai and Christina who are both still just 19 and 18 respectively. I do agree that skaters can mature and indeed reach their zenith at different times. Look at Kostner and even Czisny.

Wagner's tweet on Feb. 7:
"To whoever just stole my laundry basket, I have a very special set of skills...they just have nothing to do with getting my basket back.."

ETA that Maia Shibutani tweeted this female group photo from the Four Continents closing banquet yesterday:
"I miss these girls already! @christina_gao @agneszawadzki @GraceEGold #4CC2013" http://pic.twitter.com/xx2eYDd4

They all look gorgeous! Thanks for posting this!

Wtf about Ashley and her laundry? What a sicko thing to do!

[Spun Silver]

Re that photo - wow! I would love to see THAT Christina in competition. There's no rule that only dance ladies can wear their hair down, is there?

They are all gorgeous.

[Bosha]

If the scoring of UR triples was as strict in 2002 as it is today, Michelle would not have needed six clean triples to hold off Sarah. Michelle would probably have been trying to hold off Irina instead.

Of course, if URs had been called back in the day, Sarah would have had to clean up her technique if she wanted to be anywhere near the Olympics. In 2002, figure skating was a very different sport.

[Bosha]

@ fenway 2

If Agnes were to gain consistency, and skate both problems cleanly as planned or nearly so, would you still not want her on a U.S. Olympic or World team?

She has a very nice 3t/3t and a good 3z/2t combo, nice spins and good speed and security across the ice. Consistency is clearly a problem now, but Agnes is only 18 and this is the first year that she has not combined skating with high school. Doing something besides skating, like working a part-time job or taking one or two classes, can help some skaters, but others need to focus just on skating to reach their full potential. Perhaps Agnes is one of the latter.

Both Ashley and Alissa improved their consistency from ages 18 to 21 or 22. It is entirely possible that Agnes will do the same.

[Sasha'sSpins]

Re that photo - wow! I would love to see THAT Christina in competition. There's no rule that only dance ladies can wear their hair down, is there?

They are all gorgeous.

I don't know what the rule is regarding hair in singles but for women especially I imagine it might be a safety issue if you have long hair and it' s loose, whipping around your face as your attempting triple jumps. Similar to gymnastics I should think.

@ fenway 2

If Agnes were to gain consistency, and skate both problems cleanly as planned or nearly so, would you still not want her on a U.S. Olympic or World team?

She has a very nice 3t/3t and a good 3z/2t combo, nice spins and good speed and security across the ice. Consistency is clearly a problem now, but Agnes is only 18 and this is the first year that she has not combined skating with high school. Doing something besides skating, like working a part-time job or taking one or two classes, can help some skaters, but others need to focus just on skating to reach their full potential. Perhaps Agnes is one of the latter.

Both Ashley and Alissa improved their consistency from ages 18 to 21 or 22. It is entirely possible that Agnes will do the same.

And the same holds true for Nagasu and Gao. Both are also still just teenagers.