U.S. Ladies [#7] Wagner's Rink Cycle

[demetriosj]

I feel all of the pressure is on Ashley at World's.

Gracie's weak performances at 4C's means there are now less expectations for her, therefore, less pressure. And that's just the kind of scenario where she thrives-just like after her poorly skated short program at Nationals.....she had nothing to lose in the freeskate, and something to prove.......

[Sylvia]

I certainly hope Gracie Gold skates like she has "nothing to lose... and something to prove" in London! GO USA ladies!

Ashley Wagner described her first Worlds in 2008 at the age of 16 this way in a new article published in the Orange County Register:

"I went in as a little girl," Wagner recalled. "It was kind of like I was competing but I was on the outside looking in."

Link to the article: http://www.ocregister.com/sports/wag...d-olympic.html
Excerpt:

"It's not been the talent," said John Nicks, Wagner's coach who has guided skaters to 11 Olympics and 39 Worlds. "It's been a lack of consistency and on the big stage at Worlds our skaters just haven't delivered. It's as simple as that. Not because of talent. American ladies almost have still the finest depth. I know Japan is very strong in ladies, but if you go down to the first 10 or 12 skaters in the country, the U.S. is still very, very strong.

"They just haven't produced at the World Championships. They just haven't done it."
...
"I'm really lucky that I work with Mr. Nicks because he's really helped me get there because I'm really getting to the point where I love competing, I love that feeling, and that sensation," Wagner said. "For me it's like the ultimate competitor's dream to be at Worlds with all that at stake."

[Marco]

I almost felt Gold in 2013 is similar to Wagner in 2008. Medaling at Jr Worlds the season before, solid but not outstanding at the GPs, narrowly missing winning Nationals, underperforming at 4CCs and going to Worlds for the first time. Of course Wagner didn't skate all the well at Worlds in 2008...

[Jammers]

I almost felt Gold in 2013 is similar to Wagner in 2008. Medaling at Jr Worlds the season before, solid but not outstanding at the GPs, narrowly missing winning Nationals, underperforming at 4CCs and going to Worlds for the first time. Of course Wagner didn't skate all the well at Worlds in 2008...

Pretty good comparison. The big difference is Ashley didn't have all the hype and pressure that Gracie had in her first year as a Senior. When she went to Worlds in 2008 not much was expected of her. To be honest i think it was expected that we would lose that 3rd spot with the team we sent. Meissner was fading fast Ashley was untested and Beatrisa Liang wasn't expected to finish high in the standings either.

[RD]

Wagner's ambition is admirable (IMO) but again (sounding like a broken record) she cannot get the 3 spots back by herself...

Although- the better she does, the more mistakes Gold can afford and still remain high enough. That may be an important factor considering Gold's newness to this type of stage...

Still, I wouldn't be shocked if Gold turned out to be the higher finisher of the two. The 2008ers have had rather lousy history/luck as far as doing well in back-to-back Worlds...

[Coco]

I almost felt Gold in 2013 is similar to Wagner in 2008. Medaling at Jr Worlds the season before, solid but not outstanding at the GPs, narrowly missing winning Nationals, underperforming at 4CCs and going to Worlds for the first time. Of course Wagner didn't skate all the well at Worlds in 2008...

She didn't skate that poorly, as I recall. I should say, she didn't skate that differently from how she skated at Nationals. She got hammered on two-footed, ur'ed jumps.

While anything can happen, Gracie should at least rotate her toe assisted jumps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_KaqwaYLMM

[Nomad]

I think Wagner and Gold can finish in the top 10, with at least one of them in the top five. Admittedly meaningless number-crunching:

By Personal Best:

Kim 228.56
Asada 205.50
Kostner 197.73
Sotnikova 193.99
Wagner 192.41
Suzuki 190.08
Tuktamysheva 188.85
Murakami 181.03
Osmond 176.45
Gold 175.03

By Average Score:

Kim 201.61
Asada 187.94
Kostner 184.87
Wagner 186.98
Suzuki 182.81
Tuktamysheva 177.56
Sotnikova 172.29
Murakami 171.80
Osmond 168.67
Gold 166.10

By Average w/ PB Factored in:

Kim 215.09
Asada 192.33
Kostner 189.15
Wagner 188.34
Suzuki 184.26
Tuktamysheva 179.81
Sotnikova 176.63
Murakami 174.11
Osmond 170.62
Gold 167.89

[Marco]

She didn't skate that poorly, as I recall. I should say, she didn't skate that differently from how she skated at Nationals. She got hammered on two-footed, ur'ed jumps.

While anything can happen, Gracie should at least rotate her toe assisted jumps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_KaqwaYLMM

Well as usual your recollection is faulty. At Nationals, she landed 3/3s in both the short and long and only had a DG on a 2loop (which cost her the title). At Worlds she didn't even attempt a 3/3, fell in the long and had a couple of funky landings, and wound up in 16th place.

[mgobluegirl]

She didn't skate that poorly, as I recall. I should say, she didn't skate that differently from how she skated at Nationals. She got hammered on two-footed, ur'ed jumps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_KaqwaYLMM

It's still amazing to watch that now and see how much better she has gotten.

Go Ashley! (and Gracie!)

[demetriosj]

Pretty good comparison. The big difference is Ashley didn't have all the hype and pressure that Gracie had in her first year as a Senior .

This may have something to do with the growth of the internet, social media, etc., but
, a lot of the hype comes directly from her own team and from her own PR people.

[olympic]

^Don't forget that Ashley dealt w/ the bizarre situation at '08 Worlds of getting hustled out onto the ice before being ready due to Miki's withdrawal. I know that Ashley back then had jump issues, but I think getting pushed out on the ice at your first Worlds before really being ready probably affected her more than anything else.

Gracie shouldn't have that problem. I'm hoping Gracie has left all her bad performances behind her for the season!

I like what John Nicks said. It also sounds like he is having a positive effect on Ashley

[B.Cooper]

Pretty good comparison. The big difference is Ashley didn't have all the hype and pressure that Gracie had in her first year as a Senior. When she went to Worlds in 2008 not much was expected of her. To be honest i think it was expected that we would lose that 3rd spot with the team we sent. Meissner was fading fast Ashley was untested and Beatrisa Liang wasn't expected to finish high in the standings either.

Some parallels from 2009 season and this season. Gold is in the same position that Flatt was in back in 2009...untested at Sr Worlds. 2009 Worlds ladies team was Czisny and Flatt, and with Czisny probably having more pressure on her as the US National Champion going into Worlds (as Wagner probably does this year) . Flatt was under the radar with 1 GP season under her boots, having come out of the JPG and JrW from 2007/2008. Flatt placed 5th, and Czisny finished 11th, and that field of competitors represented pretty much everyone who showed up in Vancouver.


I think Gold has nothing to loose, and will go for it. She has been training the more technically difficult programs....Wagner on the other hand, may go for a 2A-3T in the LP but I seriously doubt we will see a 3-3 in the SP or LP from Wagner. She has self imposed alot of pressure on herself. She is setting herself up for two scenarios as I see it.....if she does do well (and if Gold does well, also)....look at we accomplished....got 3 spots back for Socchi. But, if Ashley falters ...well, not sure how to say this, but instead of focusing on what she needs to do for Team USA as a goal, she really needs to focus on her skating. She is responsible to herself as an athlete and to her coach, and to their common goals for her performances. Period. She has to push all outside distractions away, and she doesn't seem to be able to do that, from the interview she gave post US Nationals, where she discussed about how superstitious she is...
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news
That makes me concerned for Wagner....she really needs to put blinders on, and focus, focus, focus.

I think Gold will do well, as a first timer....and I am concerned for Wagner. She has to learn to put trust in her training, and not look for the little "signs" or sparkles as she calls them.

[olympic]

Some parallels from 2009 season and this season. Gold is in the same position that Flatt was in back in 2009...untested at Sr Worlds. 2009 Worlds ladies team was Czisny and Flatt, and with Czisny probably having more pressure on her as the US National Champion going into Worlds (as Wagner probably does this year) . Flatt was under the radar with 1 GP season under her boots, having come out of the JPG and JrW from 2007/2008. Flatt placed 5th, and Czisny finished 11th, and that field of competitors represented pretty much everyone who showed up in Vancouver.


I think Gold has nothing to loose, and will go for it. She has been training the more technically difficult programs....Wagner on the other hand, may go for a 2A-3T in the LP but I seriously doubt we will see a 3-3 in the SP or LP from Wagner. She has self imposed alot of pressure on herself. She is setting herself up for two scenarios as I see it.....if she does do well (and if Gold does well, also)....look at we accomplished....got 3 spots back for Socchi. But, if Ashley falters ...well, not sure how to say this, but instead of focusing on what she needs to do for Team USA as a goal, she really needs to focus on her skating. She is responsible to herself as an athlete and to her coach, and to their common goals for her performances. Period. She has to push all outside distractions away, and she doesn't seem to be able to do that, from the interview she gave post US Nationals, where she discussed about how superstitious she is...
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news
That makes me concerned for Wagner....she really needs to put blinders on, and focus, focus, focus.

I think Gold will do well, as a first timer....and I am concerned for Wagner. She has to learn to put trust in her training, and not look for the little "signs" or sparkles as she calls them.

Dorothy Hamill was superstitious. So was Linda Fratianne. They both did pretty well for themselves ...

I sometimes think that if the US can just squeak past that magic 13 barrier, US ladies should start to do well for themselves. If it doesn't happen this year, I think it can happen at '14 Worlds when we are certain to see a few ladies retire after Sochi and not show up for Worlds. IIRC, Japan started on its current path at '02 Worlds when Suguri and Onda both had breakthrough performances

[PDilemma]

Dorothy Hamill was superstitious. So was Linda Fratianne. They both did pretty well for themselves ...

I sometimes think that if the US can just squeak past that magic 13 barrier, US ladies should start to do well for themselves. If it doesn't happen this year, I think it can happen at '14 Worlds when we are certain to see a few ladies retire after Sochi and not show up for Worlds. IIRC, Japan started on its current path at '02 Worlds when Suguri and Onda both had breakthrough performances

Superstition is a common trait in athletes in most sports. Baseball players are notorious for bizarre and complicated superstitions. It doesn't hurt anything and for many is part of competitive ritual that helps get their minds focused. I also hate to make assumptions about any athlete's mindset from a few lines of an interview.

[RD]

I can understand concern for Wagner, coming off two sub-par competitions and now suddenly having all this pressure for 3 spots. You saw what happened at Nationals - if she does mess up at worlds, at least let's hope she doesn't come undone like those before her...it's been a wrecked path with Nagasu, Flatt, Czisny...

[olympic]

I can understand concern for Wagner, coming off two sub-par competitions and now suddenly having all this pressure for 3 spots. You saw what happened at Nationals - if she does mess up at worlds, at least let's hope she doesn't come undone like those before her...it's been a wrecked path with Nagasu, Flatt, Czisny...

I don't think we would see Wagner fall into a similar situation to Nagasu ('10 Worlds) with multiple mistakes, Flatt ('11) with pop-itis due to injury, and Czisny ('12) which was just catastrophic all the way around. Wagner is much less of a head case than Nagasu and Czisny, and as far as we know, she isn't injured like Flatt was in '10 - '11. Yes, it is possible she could have a mistake or two, but she seems great at picking herself back up and going for it.

[olympic]

Bored.

I can't think of a more appropriate song for Ladiezzz on the eve of Worlds!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX47lHIJ2GQ

[Jammers]

Lets face it Gracie is the wildcard. She's as unpredictable as Mirai or Alissa have been in the past. If she can just go out and skate and land her jumps she can easily finish in the top 8 even if her skating lacks polish and maturity. Right now what she needs to do at Worlds is just put on a jumping clinic like she did at Nationals in the LP. We can worry next season about her working on her weakness's but for now she just needs to be the jumping machine we know she can be to get that 3rd spot back.

[FSfan107]

Per Phil Hersh on Twitter:

Philip Hersh ‏@olyphil
Ashley Wagner had travel day from hell. Arrived in London at 2 AM Tuesday. Up til 4 trying to locate clothes and skates still en route.

Hope this doesn't effect her too much. I might be "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" here, but I think it's smart to arrive as early as possible. I feel like Ashley is cutting it a little close.

[olympic]

Per Phil Hersh on Twitter:



Hope this doesn't effect her too much. I might be "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" here, but I think it's smart to arrive as early as possible. I feel like Ashley is cutting it a little close.

Did she ultimately get her clothes and skates?

Anyway, the competition starts for her on Thursday. Providing she gets/got her stuff (albeit late). She has a day to settle in. It might actually be a good distraction. When you have other crap to worry about, you're too busy to over-think your on ice performance (am I getting a Level 4? Is that 1/4 turn short?)