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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Yes, but Rudolf Vilma showed who is the best!!!
    Are you referring to Wilma Rudolph, the track and field star? She competed in both 1956 and 1960; she wasn't even born yet in 1936. I think you mean Jesse Owens.
    Last edited by Karina1974; 02-08-2013 at 02:30 PM.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Pretty much every single city that has hosted the Olympics. Best recent example is Athens. Unused, unneeded venues, falling into ruin already.

    Other than Barcelona and maybe one or two other examples, all the cities hosting the Olympics failed to turn the games into long-term development and just managed to bankrupt themselves.

    I don't know, Lake Placid doesn't seem to be suffering any. The 1980 Ice arena is still in use as far as I know, and Whiteface is a draw for skiers. When my parents go up to visit my brother who lives outside of Saranac Lake, they take a bypass road so they don't have to drive through the village and get stuck in traffic.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karina1974 View Post
    Are you referring to Wilma Rudolph, the track and field star? She competed in both 1956 and 1960; she wasn't even born yet in 1936. I think you mean Jesse Owens.
    Yes, of course!!!! You are right!!! Jesse Owens!!

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    I don't like the North-American hypocricy... What did they do with the Native American people? That was the biggest genocide in history. I admire that people! It would be better, if the Americans would solve this problem, at first. But you don't get me wrong, I hope everything will be fine and the gays will have every rights in Sochi.
    Unfortunately, in my country the gays also in bad situation , and many people also hates immigrants, and the refugees. And I hate that! But probably it's a slow process, and it will be better 10-20 years time. I think the Americans are so different people, they easy to accept the otherness.
    Rather silly post, so different when the American tragedy you talk about happened hundreds of years ago. Russia is doing this gay hate thing now. I do hope it's a language thing as I found the first part of your post awfully offensive..
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


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    So is this going to be Johnny's 'excuse' for dropping out of Nationals and halting his quest to make the Sochi team? Jeez, Louise!

    The Jewish lobby in DC has, for years, been harping on alleged mistreatment of Jews in Russia, most recently because prominent Russian Jewish businessmen remain behind bars on (allegedly) trumped-up criminal charges. I'm sure that somewhere in U.S. Congress, somebody is lobbying for a Sochi boycott.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Perhaps you missed the history lessons where Columbus landed in the Caribean, not on the North American continent, and the genocides wrought by Spanish and Portuguese conquerors throughout the Caribbean, what became the southeastern US, Mexico, Central and South America beginning in the late 15th century, some on advanced civilizations?

    The New World has lots of finger-pointing opportunities.
    Including at each other. The Seminoles didn't move to Florida to be nice neighbors. Lots of tribes were wiping preexisting tribes out before Europeans arrived (the Huron didn't go west with the French because they felt cramped, they wanted to put distance and an ally with firearms between them and the Iroquois). And of course the majority of deaths were disease, and not intentionally spread disease (that happened to a degree) but just what happens when new populations meet each other. And of course North America sent Europe a lovely return gift in the form of syphilis. None of the tribes in place at European contact had "always" been there, and quite a few occupied the territories they did because they wiped out the previous residents. Pre-Europe North America (let alone Central and South America) was not a Utopian panacea of brotherliness and living in harmony with nature. Plenty of massacring going on long before anyone arrived going west.

  7. #87

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    Not counting the ski infrastructure as I'm not that familiar with them (the tragedy that occurred at the Sliding Centre is well known, but beyond that, I don't think revenue generated is matching the expenses to maintain it yet), Vancouver only built two new facilities--the curling arena and the speed skating oval. Prior to conception, both were planned to be converted to recreation centres. Both are extremely well used and focal points in their neighbourhoods.

    Non-sports related, Vancouver spent a ton of money building a new transit line from Downtown to the airport--and that is extremely popular, well used. I love the Canada Line. We also improved the road access from Vancouver to Whistler. I took that route during the summer a couple of years ago and it was nice--not sure whether that has the helped the economy in any way, though, or it's caused fewer accidents and deaths.

    There was also the Olympic Village (where the athletes stayed) but I believe about 90% of the condos have been sold and the neighbourhood is really developing. I love the coffeeshop, the pedestrian bridge, the big ass birds. It's one of my favourite stops along the seawall when I run or bike.

    Turin apparently tore down its sliding centre.

    I don't know what will happen to Sochi's Olympic area. All the stadiums are built right next to each other. Great during those 4 weeks, but will they be of use in the future? And you have to build everything. I know a lot of people did not like the Pacific Coliseum for the skating, but it was existing infrastructure and we didn't bankrupt ourselves making some upgrades.
    Last edited by manhn; 02-08-2013 at 04:07 PM.

  8. #88

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    I don't know, Lake Placid doesn't seem to be suffering any. The 1980 Ice arena is still in use as far as I know, and Whiteface is a draw for skiers. When my parents go up to visit my brother who lives outside of Saranac Lake, they take a bypass road so they don't have to drive through the village and get stuck in traffic.
    I don't know when the economics of the games went on to steriods (someone else may have a better measure of that) but it happened. I would guess that as you say Lake Placid, Cortina, places like that which were winter sports centers (maybe not huge but established) may have only benefitted. But somewhere along the way, just enhancing what was already there and adding some venues morphed into practically building a city and it's now about building a building/venue for almost every individual event and making them permanent, large structures, etc. Not to say that does't have a point but it went over into money-land a while ago and now it's complete overkill regardless of who has the games.

    Interesting article in today New York Times about Putin's most recent visit to Sochi and his complete displeasure with the cost overruns (massive although one wonders if the budget was a fiction in the first place and it was always going to cost what it is likely to cost), likely corruption on the construction side and blown construction milestones. Not so with the figure skating arena in Sochi (looks beautiful) but that may be the exception.
    Last edited by Willowway; 02-08-2013 at 04:11 PM.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzisk8tr View Post
    Rather silly post, so different when the American tragedy you talk about happened hundreds of years ago. Russia is doing this gay hate thing now. I do hope it's a language thing as I found the first part of your post awfully offensive..
    I'm not equipped at the moment to get into this non-skating argument but I do feel the need to say that the mistreatment of American Indians in the U.S. is ongoing, not simply historical.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  10. #90
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    Although Sochi venues are somewhat centralized, at least four of the buildings are temporary and will be moved to other sites around Russia after the Games.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  11. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Pretty much every single city that has hosted the Olympics. Best recent example is Athens. Unused, unneeded venues, falling into ruin already.

    Other than Barcelona and maybe one or two other examples, all the cities hosting the Olympics failed to turn the games into long-term development and just managed to bankrupt themselves.

    It will be interesting to see how London fares. It's something they've apparently put a lot of thought and planning into.
    Calgary did fine after the Olympics in '88. Many of the venues are still used as national training centres.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Pretty much every single city that has hosted the Olympics. Best recent example is Athens. Unused, unneeded venues, falling into ruin already.

    Other than Barcelona and maybe one or two other examples, all the cities hosting the Olympics failed to turn the games into long-term development and just managed to bankrupt themselves.
    Salt Lake (2002) doesn't seem to be in ruins to me, nor does Atlanta (1996) or LA (1984). And last I checked, Torino (2006) seemed to be doing fine.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  13. #93
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    Summer Olympics, at least since Montreal, have had a worse track record than Winter Olympics.

    The gains that manhn cited came at a great cost, several times the amount it would have cost to fix the Sea-to-Sky Highway and to build the Canada Line, had there been civic will for infrastructure projects. The Canada Line, as much as I find it convenient, was third on the regional transit priorities list, and it was only bumped up for the Olympics, putting more critical projects on the back burner. The Olympic Village was touted as a private enterprise, but the City guaranteed the project, and when the private developers couldn' meet the quality requirements and timelines and faced big financial penalties for every day it was late, they left the City holding the bag. Those condos are still 10% unsold three years later, and the ones that did sell were at a discount.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  14. #94

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    The world discovered in some previous boycotts that the only people hurt by that action were the athletes that were not allowed to compete. Remember the damage, tit for tat Olympic boycott actions between the United States and the Soviet Union with the resulting harm to athletes.

    If people do not like the policy, they should not attend, but don't hurt athletes who have spent their lives preparing for what may be their last chance for Olympic glory.
    Morry Stillwell

  15. #95
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    I've seen some of the footage (with a British commentator) of the women's competition (Team and AA) in gymnastics from Moscow 1980. I'm almost glad our athletes weren't in that competition - it came across as a Communistic pissing contest between the Soviets and Romanians.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Summer Olympics, at least since Montreal, have had a worse track record than Winter Olympics.
    http://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/st...es-russia.html
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog...inter-olympics
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games

    It looks like Sochi is going to help even things out. Government authorities and private investors have already spent thirty-eight billion dollars on the Sochi Games, and the final cost is projected to be fifty billion dollars.

    The total cost of the Salt Lake City Games was only $1.2 billion.

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    Not counting the ski infrastructure as I'm not that familiar with them (the tragedy that occurred at the Sliding Centre is well known, but beyond that, I don't think revenue generated is matching the expenses to maintain it yet), Vancouver only built two new facilities--the curling arena and the speed skating oval. Prior to conception, both were planned to be converted to recreation centres. Both are extremely well used and focal points in their neighbourhoods.

    Non-sports related, Vancouver spent a ton of money building a new transit line from Downtown to the airport--and that is extremely popular, well used. I love the Canada Line. We also improved the road access from Vancouver to Whistler. I took that route during the summer a couple of years ago and it was nice--not sure whether that has the helped the economy in any way, though, or it's caused fewer accidents and deaths.

    There was also the Olympic Village (where the athletes stayed) but I believe about 90% of the condos have been sold and the neighbourhood is really developing. I love the coffeeshop, the pedestrian bridge, the big ass birds. It's one of my favourite stops along the seawall when I run or bike.

    Turin apparently tore down its sliding centre.

    I don't know what will happen to Sochi's Olympic area. All the stadiums are built right next to each other. Great during those 4 weeks, but will they be of use in the future? And you have to build everything. I know a lot of people did not like the Pacific Coliseum for the skating, but it was existing infrastructure and we didn't bankrupt ourselves making some upgrades.
    That's why I loved the Vancouver games. They did their best to use existing facilities and transportation. It all seemed very economical.

  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    So is this going to be Johnny's 'excuse' for dropping out of Nationals and halting his quest to make the Sochi team? Jeez, Louise!

    The Jewish lobby in DC has, for years, been harping on alleged mistreatment of Jews in Russia, most recently because prominent Russian Jewish businessmen remain behind bars on (allegedly) trumped-up criminal charges. I'm sure that somewhere in U.S. Congress, somebody is lobbying for a Sochi boycott.
    The Jewish lobby? Is that you, Chuck Hagel?
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  19. #99
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    What is the point of this thread in a figure skating forum?
    Gay rights, boycott to Sochi Games and now talking about the games´ legacy in host cities...
    Go ahead if the administators think this is the place to discuss these things, but I´m just lost.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by akkto View Post
    What is the point of this thread in a figure skating forum?
    Gay rights, boycott to Sochi Games and now talking about the games´ legacy in host cities...
    Go ahead if the administators think this is the place to discuss these things, but I´m just lost.
    Figure skating?

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