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  1. #781
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    I think something like this might be a good way to go, though its up to the athletes.

    Striking Olympic Gold--Frank Bruni (New York Times)
    Love it...Canada maybe too?

  2. #782

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    Don’t boycott the Olympics, ban Russia from competing instead
    http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/08/06/dont-...eting-instead/
    Think a Russian ban is crazy? There’s precedent for it. In 1964, the IOC banned South Africa from participating in the Olympic Games because of apartheid in that nation. The ban remained in force for 28 years, until apartheid ended.

    Let Russia, as host, watch the games from the sidelines as 200 other nations slide across the ice in Sochi.
    Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  3. #783

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    There is an excellent op ed piece in today's New York Times about this subject from Frank Bruni a regular columnist for the Times and uncle of Mauro Bruni, a former competitive and now professional skater. So Frank probably knows about the quad toe he references. Log onto the Times site (nytimes.com) - it's very worth reading.
    Last edited by Willowway; 08-06-2013 at 06:52 PM.

  4. #784
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    While I love the idea of a shower of rainbow flags, and rainbow-patterned uniforms, I'm pretty sure such a display would violate Rule 50 of the Olympic charter. Especially:

    3. No kind of demonstration or political, religious or racial propaganda is permitted in any Olympic sites, venues or other areas.
    and

    Bye-law to Rule 50
    1. No form of publicity or propaganda, commercial or otherwise, may appear on persons, on sportswear, accessories or, more generally, on any article of clothing or equipment whatsoever worn or used by the athletes or other participants in the Olympic Games...
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  5. #785
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    Yes, sadly, a demonstration by all nations but Russia and Belarus would leave Russia as the only country whose athletes were not banned. It's too risky to see if Rogge would go through with it, in the face of a multi-nation action, which would likely impact the TV money flowing to future Olympics.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  6. #786

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    I didn't take Bruni's vision as a plan - I think he was sharing what he could imagine. He hopes that at the Olympics there might be a signal of "belief in the dignity of gays and lesbians" whatever that signal might be. It would sure be wonderful, wouldn't it.

  7. #787
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    It would be, but I don't see how anything could be pulled off without risking the disqualification of participating athletes. Unless it were something abstract like having a number of nations band together, coordinate their outfits so each color of the rainbow were represented, and then assembling within the arena for the opening and/or closing ceremonies to create a human rainbow.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  8. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Yes, sadly, a demonstration by all nations but Russia and Belarus would leave Russia as the only country whose athletes were not banned. It's too risky to see if Rogge would go through with it, in the face of a multi-nation action, which would likely impact the TV money flowing to future Olympics.
    It is not Russia and Belarus alone that have such laws... most countries around world have far harsher rules... so what you are saying is unrealistic...

  9. #789
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    I like to add this excellent reply to Bruni's article and I agree completely with the writer...

    I would like to support the opinion stated ever so eloquently by the contributor called LaContra. It is indeed not the homophobia of one man or possibly one government, it is the homophobia of a whole nation and it is but one part of an ingrained and integral part of the cultural make-up of Eastern European and Russian nations, one that is not going to disappear overnight based on a simple gesture from a nation not long ago considered the enemy and even now considered at best spoiled and liberal.
    You may wish for a simple show of solidarity to an oppressed majority or for a show of protest against the Russian political system, however what you will be showing to the overwhelming majority of Russian people is simply that you consider your beliefs, motivations and ways of life better than theirs, you will be showing ingratitude and a bullish attitude. I am really sorry that I can not explain this better, but your wish for a sign of solidarity simply reads to me as childishly spitting in the face of your host (Russian people), because he is unable to accommodate your wish for profound change by a certain deadline.

  10. #790
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    Domshabfan, do you think Russians are the only people who resent being told what to do by outsiders? The entire nation of Israel has been thumbing its collective nose at the international community for 40 years because "they hate us anyway." And many, many American politicians would pull us out of the UN, disband the international criminal court at the Hague, disqualify the use of any legal reasoning other than our own Constitution and in general tell the rest of the world to get lost. It's called "American exceptionalism."

    It doesn't matter. Of course ordinary Russians are going to mind being told what to do by a bunch of liberal outsiders, especially since Russia's history since the demise of communism is not exactly a successful move towards democracy and pluralism. The point of the [usually highly unpopular] standards of human rights is that they are universal and do not yield to Putin's posturing, or the Koran, or the Old/New Testament, or the Vatican, or (fill in the blank of whatever culturally relevant totem is explaining that it's OK to treat certain people badly.) And people who support human rights in a universal sense have no choice but to attempt to piss off Russians or Israelis or Americans or Chinese or anyone else who is trifling with them.

    There are places and times to make nice. This isn't one of them.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

  11. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugar View Post
    Don’t boycott the Olympics, ban Russia from competing instead
    http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/08/06/dont-...eting-instead/

    Think a Russian ban is crazy? There’s precedent for it. In 1964, the IOC banned South Africa from participating in the Olympic Games because of apartheid in that nation. The ban remained in force for 28 years, until apartheid ended.

    Let Russia, as host, watch the games from the sidelines as 200 other nations slide across the ice in Sochi.
    Leaving aside the practicalities, it isn't as simple as that.

    There was no country that had anything quite like apartheid except for Rhodesia, which was barred by the Mexican Government from competing in 1968 and then expelled from the IOC before the next Summer Olympics.

    There are many IOC members with anti-gay laws that are far more restrictive than what exists in Russia, including more than half a dozen that prescribe the death penalty for homosexual acts. I don't think the IOC is going to ban Russia any time soon.

  12. #792

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugar View Post
    Don’t boycott the Olympics, ban Russia from competing instead
    http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/08/06/dont-...eting-instead/
    It sounds like a good idea in theory, but it's not very fair to the Russian athletes who may absolutely despise this law. The athletes are not responsible for their government actions. I know for a fact that Evgeni Plushenko was a very high-profile signatory of a petition against this law.

  13. #793
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    Well, good for Plushenko, seriously. It would be hard to understand how any straight guy figure skater could be anti-gay, given the surrounding company, but I suppose it happens.

    Nobody is going to ban the host country from competing. And yes there are other countries whose laws are worse. That means making an example of Russia sends an important signal internationally, particularly since Russians are [justly] proud of their high culture. I wonder if every brilliant Russian novelist, ballet star, composer, musician and artist was/is straight? Not bloody likely.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

  14. #794
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post
    Domshabfan, do you think Russians are the only people who resent being told what to do by outsiders? The entire nation of Israel has been thumbing its collective nose at the international community for 40 years because "they hate us anyway." And many, many American politicians would pull us out of the UN, disband the international criminal court at the Hague, disqualify the use of any legal reasoning other than our own Constitution and in general tell the rest of the world to get lost. It's called "American exceptionalism."

    It doesn't matter. Of course ordinary Russians are going to mind being told what to do by a bunch of liberal outsiders, especially since Russia's history since the demise of communism is not exactly a successful move towards democracy and pluralism. The point of the [usually highly unpopular] standards of human rights is that they are universal and do not yield to Putin's posturing, or the Koran, or the Old/New Testament, or the Vatican, or (fill in the blank of whatever culturally relevant totem is explaining that it's OK to treat certain people badly.) And people who support human rights in a universal sense have no choice but to attempt to piss off Russians or Israelis or Americans or Chinese or anyone else who is trifling with them.

    There are places and times to make nice. This isn't one of them.
    It isn't about telling Russia what to do anyway. The idea that showing solidarity for LGBT people is being rude to the hosts who want to use LGBT people for their own political ends is just Any kind of showing that athletes or others choose to make in Sochi is about standing with LGBT people who have human rights no matter how many countries in the world refuse to recognize them. Its not going to make Russia change its laws but that is not the point. The point is to stand in solidarity for human rights for all.

    And if there are people who think human rights are childish and silly, that's just how it is.

    I wouldn't want to be them.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  15. #795

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    Blueridge - thank you! You said what I was thinking.

  16. #796
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    I'm pretty sure we'll see some "404's" during the opening ceremonies.

    http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/...%28The+Dish%29


    Russian teenagers are pushing back against homophobia with the “404–Kids” campaign.


    "On the Internet, sometimes you see the “404 – Page Not Found” error message. Likewise, our society thinks that homosexual teens don’t exist in nature, as if gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgenders fly in from Mars as adults. Meanwhile, in every twentieth Russian family, an LGBT child is growing up. These 404–Kids are invisible to society. … Stop, people! Hear them! These are your children. Who knows: Maybe you’ll see the letter of your own child here?"

    These kids deserve a better future.

  17. #797
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    People can talk about what business others may have to interfere in another country's internal matters, but that is not what this is about.

    Russia chose to host this major international event. It isn't Russia's event that it has invited people to. It is an international event that Russia volunteered to host for the community of nations. When a country does that it opens itself up to criticism, especially when it volunteers to hold an event like the Olympics which makes a big show of having a particular set of values. If you don't agree with those values, don't choose to hold the event on your soil.
    Last edited by BlueRidge; 08-07-2013 at 02:40 AM.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  18. #798
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    BlueRidge, beautifully put!

  19. #799

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    Have just found an article. Hey IOC, is the water getting warm enough yet?

    The first lines...
    "The Winter Olympics begin six months in Sochi, Russia. Athletes find themselves in a risky situation. On one hand, they face prosecution for advocating for gay rights. On the other, they face banishment by Olympic officials for publicly opposing Russia’s discriminatory new law."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/07/sp...-law.html?_r=0
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  20. #800

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    George Takei - It’s Time to Move the Olympics
    http://www.allegiancemusical.com/blo...-move-olympics
    Many believe that such a call to move the Olympics out of Russia goes too far. Would this be their opinion if the law instead called for the arrest of any Jews, Roman Catholics or Muslims should they display any sign of their religion, such as a wearing a yamaka or praying while facing Mecca? Discrimination in any form is a blight upon the Winter Games, and it must not be tolerated.

    NBC and the corporate sponsors of the Olympics should be paying close attention, too, and should get behind the “Move the Olympics” movement now, while there is still time to do so. If the Winter Olympics proceed in Sochi, Russia, all of the goodwill they have spent millions to build will evaporate in noisy protests, boycotts, and terrible publicity. I personally will be beating this particular drum loudly, as will many other LGBT actors, activists and allies. Trust me, if you are a corporate brand, you do not want to be associated with the Sochi Olympics.
    Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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