Sochi Olympics will test gay rights

[Habs]

I know about the apology. But they live in closed poor territories even today.

They can live on reservations by choice, but it isn't mandated. Native Americans (and Canadians) are free to live wherever they choose.

[kwanfan1818]

I have some information about North-American history, but you know so much better, of course. So you can not prove me that the white settlers not persecuted the native people. Need to face the truth. I know Osceola's name, and his story, etc.

Why would I try to prove that absurd statement. I was refuting your assertion that it was the worst genocide ever, when there was an earlier, similar genocide against Native peoples in the same hemisphere.

[spikydurian]

Every nation on this planet is guilty of some sort of atrocity in their past. What needs to be look at is how that country is currently handling past wrongs (whether it be recognizing those wrongs, making institutional changes to make sure it does not happen again, offering reparations, etc.) to see if there has been any growth on that front.

No country is perfect and hypocrisy is always going to happen. It's in human beings' nature to be hypocritical. However, people do what they can with the knowledge given and what the consensus allows them to get away with. There are things I believe my country, the U.S. is doing that I believe are gross violations of human rights and I don't mind people brining them up any time the U.S. hosts something because these issues need to be raised. However, we are fooling ourselves if we think the IOC really cares about that. Outside concentration camps or child labor or self-identifying absolute dictatorships, I'm sure the IOC is willing to look past a lot...even now.

This makes sense to me.

I wish to add that sports and politics should not mix, if possible. Just like religion should be separate from the judiciary. Race, politics and religion are divisive and potent and we all know we cannot be absolutely similar even among siblings. Fighting and insult throwing will not change the hardcore and will antagonise the fence sitters. To change a culture or common way of thinking, I think education is the best way forward. (OK, I am an idealist. )

[Iceman]

Both the 1980 and 1984 summer Olympics were boycotted. Only 16 countries sent athletes to the 1980 olympics which were held in Moscow and they marched into the arena without their country's flags. The 1980 summer Olympics in Los Angeles was boycotted by the Soviet Union and some other communist countries.

After both World Wars, the losing countries were not even invited to take part in the Olympics.

[BlueRidge]

Both the 1980 and 1984 summer Olympics were boycotted. Only 16 countries sent athletes to the 1980 olympics which were held in Moscow and they marched into the arena without their country's flags. The 1980 summer Olympics in Los Angeles was boycotted by the Soviet Union and some other communist countries.

I'm just wondering this: Does anyone contend anything was accomplished by these boycotts?

[Ziggy]

You do realize they let the Olympics go to China. What are you expecting? By comparison Russia is liberal

LOL!

There are no anti-gay laws in China any more.

Of course I get your point about China in general but it is very slowly opening up. Russia, on the other hand, seems to be going in exactly the opposite direction.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I'm just wondering this: Does anyone contend anything was accomplished by these boycotts?

I remember hearing a joke about how Jimmy Carter's boycott of the 1980 Games created a new group of Republicans from those athletes. If that was even partially true, then I guess one can argue it accomplished something.

[kalamalka]

It was 3 summer games in a row that were boycotted - the first was a boycott by mainly African countries of Montreal in 1976. The issue there wasn't Canada, but related to New Zealand playing rugby with South Africa. It did have a significant impact on the Olympics, though, and probably encouraged the boycott of Moscow four years later.

[iarispiralllyof]

right. reminds me of Beijing, the World does not revolve around western countries, democracy is a facade and its definition differs from culture to country.
I for one leave it to their own people ( majority of Russians are still unwelcome of gays )
do not care how this human rights are condemned, I can easily name gross human violations in any country.

the world is filled with hypocrisy.

I'm Asian-American so I definitely appreciate the importance of respecting cultural differences, but there is such a thing as taking cultural relativism too far. Can we use culture to justify any country stoning rape victims in this day and age? (Which certainly happens)

It's one thing if Russia just didn't allow gay marriage. The US itself is still figuring that out. But gay people have problems even just living day to day there. And LGBTQ oppression isn't even the only human rights issue in Russia.

Of course, I agree that the IOC likely doesn't care - short of genocide.

[judiz]

I'm just wondering this: Does anyone contend anything was accomplished by these boycotts?

No, the only thing that happened was that athletes who worked all their lives to be in the Olympics were denied the chance to compete, many like the gymnasts of 1980 were unable to compete in 1984 because their bodies did not hold up for four more years.

[aftershocks]

In this vid, Belita, who participated in the the 1936 Olympics, categorized her experience at that Olympics as one of sheer "Terror" because of the political situation. The comments occur early in the vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffxll8MqoMI

I hadn't heard of Belita before. The vid is from the 1970s ... I wonder is she still alive? Is there any more information on her such as in a book, or a list of her films?

[Skittl1321]

I hadn't heard of Belita before. The vid is from the 1970s ... I wonder is she still alive? Is there any more information on her such as in a book, or a list of her films?

She is not still alive, she passed away in 2005.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belita

There are tons of her videos on youtube. Gorgeous candlestick spiral.

[aftershocks]

^^ Thanks Skittl1321.

[overedge]

Yes, but Rudolf Vilma showed who is the best!!!

Yes, some African-American and Jewish athletes competed or won medals in 1936. But that does not excuse how the IOC conveniently interpreted or outright ignored the awful things that were happening in Germany to "outsiders".

[Coco]

Forget human rights, the IOC and FIFA wouldn't even stand up to China when Chinese citizens were caught secretly videotaping the Danish team in their hotel room as they met to discuss strategy for a Women's World Cup match in Wuhan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/14/sp...4cup.html?_r=0
http://www.transparencyinsport.org/S...ry(page2).html

[caseyedwards]

Both the 1980 and 1984 summer Olympics were boycotted. Only 16 countries sent athletes to the 1980 olympics which were held in Moscow and they marched into the arena without their country's flags. The 1980 summer Olympics in Los Angeles was boycotted by the Soviet Union and some other communist countries.

After both World Wars, the losing countries were not even invited to take part in the Olympics.

80 countries participated and lots went in with their flags.

[AJ Skatefan]

Look at all the billion dollar venues that are now in ruins.

Which venues are those?

[NadineWhite]

This has nothing to do with skating and should be put in another section of the forum that deals with outside non-skating matters. jmho.

[Ziggy]

Which venues are those?

Pretty much every single city that has hosted the Olympics. Best recent example is Athens. Unused, unneeded venues, falling into ruin already.

Other than Barcelona and maybe one or two other examples, all the cities hosting the Olympics failed to turn the games into long-term development and just managed to bankrupt themselves.

It will be interesting to see how London fares. It's something they've apparently put a lot of thought and planning into.

[Skittl1321]

Other than Barcelona and maybe one or two other examples, all the cities hosting the Olympics failed to turn the games into long-term development and just managed to bankrupt themselves.

I understand the appeal of wanting everything centralizied- but what city could possibly use and support all those sports facilities? Having the Olympics spread out over a broader area makes a LOT more sense. Then many cities in the same general area could benefit from new facilities- one a soccer stadium, one a swimming, one a track, etc, rather than one city being totally burdened by it.