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  1. #541

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    I don't think expressing distaste for homophobic attitudes and criticsm of homophobic legislation equates to hating Russia and Russians. Also, most of the posters in this thread have advocated making a statement against these things by means other than an Olympic boycott.

  2. #542
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    I was very-very young in 1984. I was living in the Eastern Bloc, and one of my friend had a chance to go to Los Angeles Games because he passed the qualifying level, he was a long-jumper. But he could not go because the LA Games was boycotted by the Eastern Block. It was a tragedy for him, he almost cried, he worked so much for it. And he never had the opportunity again to attend an Olympics. His dreams were lost forever. Do you want it your favorite athletes?

  3. #543

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    Just because your own backyard is messy, don't go into other's backyard and make theirs messier.
    As a gay male, I was willing to take your post seriously until you said THAT.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  4. #544

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    That will never happen on the scale that will make any difference.
    Alright, perhaps this may work. Why not provide refugee status to those who want to leave Russia? Perhaps Weir can start a campaign to push for refugee status for those who want to leave?

    Quote Originally Posted by skateboy
    As a gay male, I was willing to take your post seriously until you said THAT.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre
    Just because your own backyard is messy, don't go into other's backyard and make theirs messier.
    I think Eyre’s quote was related to Angelskates’s comments: “So it would be a "I came to this country but I don't intend to obey the laws I don't like?" Where does that end?”. I believe it meant in relation what was posted earlier, “That you have enough law and order problems in your country, so why create the same in someone’s else’s country"

    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I have a much more cynical view of it, but I have opened my mind up a bit more. I just don't really trust people to care at all, and the Russian government will tolerate 2 weeks of Western influence just as long as they get tons of revenue from the Olympics. I think once all the spectators and media leave and feel good about the "positive influence" they brought they won't give Russia a second thought (except when figuring out if they'd like to go there again for their winter vacations) and all the crack downs will happen ten-fold.
    Yes, I agree too that the crackdown will increase ten-fold. Let me share an article I came across which I thought was insightful and thoughtful. I cannot remember the name of the journalist but I think he’s American (no, definitely not Phil Hersh ). It is in relation to N. Korean refugees who escaped to the USA via the Chinese Embassy. A campaign by well-meaning activists in highlighting the N. Korean plights only resulted in setting off a Chinese crackdown that forced some 100,000 refugees back to North Korea whereas in the past, a blind eye was adopted towards the refugees. Whilst the campaign was successful in highlighting the’ big bad N. Korea’ it came at a price for future refugees. The very people the campaign aimed at helping, gained nothing.

    Because I have a theory that a lot of people don't want a boycott just so they can enjoy watching the Olympic games and see skaters that they have invested in get to compete. I mean we write in threads dedicated to skaters, have argued/defended results, and are arguing for/against a boycott in a figure skating forum on a daily basis. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that some selfishness is coming to play here, just like how some in this thread are suggesting that LGBTQ individuals and their allies are being selfish for thinking that "gay issues" are the "only important issues."
    I don’t believe spectators care more about the Olympics than the athletes and those who supported them. I am not going to be depressed if there is no Olympics to watch. If I am an athlete who has worked my butts out and sacrificed for years to reach a level good enough to compete to represent my country in the Olympics, I would be depressed. And I think it is unfair to call these people selfish. Similarly, I can call those people who call for the boycott selfish because they think their campaign is more important than the athletes and their aspirations.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  5. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    As someone has already pointed out in this thread, Putin himself could not make any law!
    Did Putin not sign the law? And without his signature would the proposal have become law?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    It must have been the views of the majority Russians.
    Please - laws being passed do not necessarily mean that they represent the views of a majority, otherwise, I'm quite sure that very few countries would have taxes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Domshabfan View Post
    So this is acceptable while arguing for LGBT rights... showing your prejudice against a set of population...
    Are you serious? People criticize political leaders every day and it has absolutely no further implication on a country's people. I took the "Putinstan" moniker to represent Putin's well-established semi-autocratic authority.

    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    The Cold War is not over yet.

    You are happy, if you can hate Russia, you want to hate Russia..Putinistan....congrats[/B]
    Are you serious? This has absolutely nothing to do with the Cold War, and I haven't seen anything in this thread to imply a broader hate for Russia as a country or the Russian people. The discussion in this thread is focused on one law, and if the best defense you can come up with for that law is trying to distract the conversation from the intended topic, I suppose you really can't defend it.

    When a country hosts the Olympics, it will necessarily come under closer scrutiny by the world at large. And when that host country passes a law that very expressly discriminates against a class of people, it should not be surprised if that action draws vocal criticism.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  6. #546

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Can I just point out that BOYCOTTS DON'T WORK. We've established this already. The only thing a boycott does is punish the athletes who've worked so hard all their lives for this Olympic dream.
    The athletes need spectator support more than ever.
    Their success will do more to show how ridiculous these laws are than anything else
    Boycotting serves no useful purpose.

  7. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post

    I don’t believe spectators care more about the Olympics than the athletes and those who supported them. I am not going to be depressed if there is no Olympics to watch. If I am an athlete who has worked my butts out and sacrificed for years to reach a level good enough to compete to represent my country in the Olympics, I would be depressed. And I think it is unfair to call these people selfish. Similarly, I can call those people who call for the boycott selfish because they think their campaign is more important than the athletes and their aspirations.
    It's not the campaign that is more important to many of them. It's the laws that the campaign is opposing.
    Last edited by overedge; 07-28-2013 at 08:57 PM.
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

  8. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post

    Are you serious? This has absolutely nothing to do with the Cold War, and I haven't seen anything in this thread to imply a broader hate for Russia as a country or the Russian people. The discussion in this thread is focused on one law, and if the best defense you can come up with for that law is trying to distract the conversation from the intended topic, I suppose you really can't defend it.

    When a country hosts the Olympics, it will necessarily come under closer scrutiny by the world at large. And when that host country passes a law that very expressly discriminates against a class of people, it should not be surprised if that action draws vocal criticism.
    Yes, I'm serious. You are arrogant, you are thinking with your western brain.. Not to mention, we know in your country the gays also had a very long way. What do you think about it, everyone has right to medical care. How many people have no health insurance in U.S.? I want a boycott. And I want a boycott against Rio 2016!!! In Rio millions of people live in favela! They have rights for the normal life and healthy environment. And I wanted a boycott against Vancouver! The Canadians destroying the environment with the oil sands extraction.

    Do you know that the Athletic World Championships will be held in Moscow a few weeks later? We can see what will happen.

  9. #549
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    ^ Go ahead. Rally enough support for those causes and see how the general population reacts. The consensus of world opinion often picks and chooses what things they cannot put up with. I don't see how not making a big enough stink for other violations undermines the very real fact that the LGBTQ population is being targeted based on hostile animosity due attributes people cannot change. Saying that it's only targeting behavior and not sexuality is also a bit false because it's putting a heavy and non-realistic burden on that population.

  10. #550

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    I’m concerned for the discrimination that may face the Athletes before they even get to Sochi.
    Suppose New Zealand* decides that sending Blake (a vocal out gay short track skater) would be too risky- that his presence might endanger his team mates by making them a target of anti-gay violence? Violence seems to be accepted in Russia-as long as it’s against Gays.

    *just used as an example

    Even if Blake makes it to Sochi.....will he be stuck in the Village? Too risky to go out and get a tat or see local sights? Will his Fed bar him from leaving the Village?

    IT just takes away from the whole spirit and good will of the Games to potentially have some athletes treated differently than others- just because they’re part of the 10%- not the 90%.

    I’m not in favor of a boycott- that would hurt all the athletes that train so hard. But the whole situation is very sad.

  11. #551
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    There's a difference between awarding the games when those issues are known, and quite another when legislation is created after the games are awarded, legislation that directly impacts the athletes, officials, voluntters, media, and spectators and forces paricipants to be held hostage in the athlete's village. Apartheid was the legal norm in South Africa, although there were private faclities where "coloreds" were physically protected, but this is as if apartheid were put in place after the games were awarded, or if morality police squads emerged within a year od the Games that would curtail the movement of the women who were involved with the Olympics.

    What about the alternates who are specifically not given credentials or a room in the village by the rules, but must be present "off campus" in case they are called? What happens if security is lax enough like in Munich and gay-bashers decide to take matters into their own hands in the village?
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 07-28-2013 at 11:12 PM.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  12. #552

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    It does seem that some sort of protection/safeguards should be put in place, especially for the Athletes, their families, and spectators attending the Games.

  13. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Yes, I'm serious. You are arrogant, you are thinking with your western brain.. Not to mention, we know in your country the gays also had a very long way. What do you think about it, everyone has right to medical care. How many people have no health insurance in U.S.? I want a boycott. And I want a boycott against Rio 2016!!! In Rio millions of people live in favela! They have rights for the normal life and healthy environment. And I wanted a boycott against Vancouver! The Canadians destroying the environment with the oil sands extraction.
    That there are other atrocities elsewhere in the world - everywhere in the world - does not in my opinion in any way diminish that this law is discriminatory and has the potential to not only marginalize a segment of the population but also put them at risk.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  14. #554
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    After watching one of those gay torture videos circulating Youtube, I have come to the conclusion that hate crimes will happen at the Olympics. And I don't say this just because I'm emotional right now, but sometimes you just have to admit things are broken beyond repair. There's too much hatred going around.

    For those people that are minimizing the severity of these events, you deserve no respect. I don't respect you. You are everything that is wrong with this world.


    When you say "some people" and "someone"...who exactly are you referring to??

    Some people in the skating community are not our friends PeterG. They are far far on the other side of the spectrum.
    Last edited by dots; 07-29-2013 at 05:14 AM.

  15. #555

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    Russian lawmaker wants ban on gay propaganda to be applied to Sochi Games
    http://rbth.ru/news/2013/07/28/russi...ame_28449.html
    Chairman of the St. Petersburg legislature's committee for legislation Vitaly Milonov, who is also the author of the city law banning gay propaganda, said the similar federal law should apply to the guests and athletes of the Sochi Winter Olympics."I haven't heard the government's commentaries, but I know that the government acts in compliance with Russian laws. If a law has been passed by parliament and signed by the president, the government has no right or powers to reverse it," Milonov told Interfax on Sunday on reports that the federal law banning homosexual propaganda will not be applied to foreign participants in the Sochi Olympics.
    "Any normal athlete, or sport fan arrives to support his team and to watch sport events in their splendor, not to violate the laws of the hosting country," he said.
    Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  16. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by centerpt1 View Post
    I’m not in favor of a boycott- that would hurt all the athletes that train so hard. But the whole situation is very sad.
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    That there are other atrocities elsewhere in the world - everywhere in the world - does not in my opinion in any way diminish that this law is discriminatory and has the potential to not only marginalize a segment of the population but also put them at risk.
    Yes, I agree. I just don't agree with the boycott.

  17. #557
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    Two new viewpoints:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michel...?utm_hp_ref=tw

    Michelangelo Signorile, Editor-at-large, HuffPost Gay Voices
    Boycott the Olympics? Russian Vodka? NBC? Maybe. Here Are Five Other Ripe Targets

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ics?CMP=twt_gu

    Shame on the IOC, NBC and foreign governments for turning a blind eye on Russia's LGBT hate campaign
    As long as the Sochi games are fine, the IOC and others will ignore Putin's moves to intimidate and hurt LGBT Russians

    Nancy Goldstein
    guardian.co.uk, Monday 29 July 2013 07.30 EDT

  18. #558
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23489702

    Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gay people?
    Last edited by lala; 07-29-2013 at 09:36 PM.

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    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/07/29...nter-olympics/

    Canada: Vancouver Mayor attacks Russia over anti-gay laws ahead of Winter Olympics

    by Joseph Patrick McCormick
    29 July 2013, 11:41pm

    Excerpt:

    The mayor of Vancouver has spoken out to heavily criticise the recent introduction of Russian anti-gay laws ahead of the Winter Olympics to be held in Sochi in 2014.

    Mayor Gregor Robertson joined the debate around the issue, which has already seen international boycotts of Russian vodka brands, and much controversy in LGBT groups.

    “As host Mayor of the Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympic and Paralympic Games, I have been alarmed to learn of further discriminatory legislation and violent actions targeting the LGBTQ community in Russia ahead of the upcoming 2014 Games in Sochi,” a statement from the mayor reads.

    “It is clear to me that the Russian parliament’s homophobic assault on the fundamental human rights of the LGBTQ community will prevent many of these individuals from safely and openly participating in Sochi.”

  20. #560
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    Just to point out that Mayor Gregor has always been very supportive of the LGBT community in Vancouver, so it's not like his views have been changed because of what's changed in Russia. Plus it's Pride Week in Vancouver, so it's a very relevant issue.
    Last edited by overedge; 07-30-2013 at 01:46 AM.
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

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