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  1. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    I think Plushenko should shake things up and come out as gay. Wonder how Putin would handle that one. LOL
    If you don't know Plushenko signed a petition against Milonov in concern apparently is against gay community. He signed the open letter to ask Putin to remove that guy from his post. Milonov (member of Putin's party) is some ultra-clerical dick, which has already tried to ban concerts of Madonna, Lady Gaga, Rammstein, tried to close MTV channel, the teaching of Darwin's theory in schools, was the author of initiative to ban abortion... also, he using this "anti-gay" law to threaten people....

    ____________________

    You really don't understand, Russia is a huge multicultural country. There are people away from the european big cities, who aren't live in the 21.century. Who are muslims or orthodox Christians. You try to explain them the LGTB community and their rights.....
    Last edited by lala; 07-27-2013 at 07:34 PM.

  2. #522
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    On a lighter note, an anglican church in the Australian town of Gosford has a sign on it's outside billboard saying

    "Dear Christians,
    Some people are gay.
    Get over it.
    Love God

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
    My travel and adventure blog http://alisonanddon.wordpress.com

  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    On a lighter note, an anglican church in the Australian town of Gosford has a sign on it's outside billboard saying

    "Dear Christians,
    Some people are gay.
    Get over it.
    Love God

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
    I love this!

  4. #524

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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    If you don't know Plushenko signed a petition against Milonov in concern apparently is against gay community. He signed the open letter to ask Putin to remove that guy from his post. Milonov (member of Putin's party) is some ultra-clerical dick, which has already tried to ban concerts of Madonna, Lady Gaga, Rammstein, tried to close MTV channel, the teaching of Darwin's theory in schools, was the author of initiative to ban abortion... also, he using this "anti-gay" law to threaten people....
    I didn't know that, thanks for sharing. Is there a link to a story on the subject?

  5. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    I didn't know that, thanks for sharing. Is there a link to a story on the subject?
    This was in last december

    http://www.baltinfo.ru/2012/12/20/Pl...ilonova-325218 -Plushenko, Baskov( famous opera and pop singer, Plu's friend) and Rudkovskaya (Plu's wife) signed a letter asking him to "resignation" Milonov

    http://democrator.ru/problem/9602
    and
    http://en.ria.ru/russia/20121220/178294940.html Russian Pop Stars Chime in on ‘Sodomite Propaganda’
    Last edited by lala; 07-27-2013 at 08:36 PM.

  6. #526
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    I remember the Madonna incident late last year! They wanted to take her to court. Pff as if!

    Here's her beautiful speech in St. Petersburg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnEUMA-nPd4

    Ha! Good ol' Madge!

  7. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by dots View Post
    I just don't understand what needs to happen for some people to turn a corner? I mean are the pictures, videos, and horror stories coming out of there not enough?

    What exactly needs to happen for someone to admit that it's indeed a scary situation?
    When you say "some people" and "someone"...who exactly are you referring to??

    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    I could easily find equally, if not more, brutal examples from US. This is just pot calling kettle black.
    Getting into a "who is worse" argument is just a way to distract people from the topic at hand. Yes, there are atrocities that happen everywhere around the world. And for each of those, you are welcome to start a new thread to talk about that specific issue. Right here, right now, we are talking about the effect that Russia's anti-gay laws will have on the athletes who will qualify to be in Sochi next year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    To what end Kwanfan? Foreign athletes can not change Russian laws, they'd be arrested and dealt with, and the law with still be there. Russians need to be the ones up in arms about this.
    Change can occur from both within and from outside a country. From outside of Russia, if a boycott of anything produced in Russia occurred and all the revenue from Russian products were to dwindle to nothing, big changes would happen very quickly.
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  8. #528

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    Mr. Putin’s War on Gays
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/28/op...gays.html?_r=0
    The United States, which has made great strides in accepting and protecting gay rights, has expressed concern about the new laws but needs to be more forceful. So does the International Olympic Committee, which too often fails to defend the Olympic ideals and should be leading a full-throated international campaign to insist that Russia repeal these laws.
    If nothing else, there is pure self-interest for Mr. Putin in this. Gay athletes and supporters of gay rights could decide not to attend the Games, or nascent calls for a formal Olympic boycott could gather steam. That will not produce the self-congratulatory showcase event over which Mr. Putin is so eager to preside.
    Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  9. #529

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    The new York times seems very open to supporting a boycott of Sochi

  10. #530

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    The new York times seems very open to supporting a boycott of Sochi
    If Americans think this is the best way to make Russia changes this discriminatory law, then perhaps a boycott by the USA may forces Putin's hand indeed. It has to be carried out to see its effects.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  11. #531

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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    If Americans think this is the best way to make Russia changes this discriminatory law, then perhaps a boycott by the USA may forces Putin's hand indeed. It has to be carried out to see its effects.
    That will never happen on the scale that will make any difference.
    Last edited by Angelskates; 07-28-2013 at 02:13 AM.

  12. #532
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    Here's what I think: if Tsar Vladimir of Putinistan (as I like to call him) sees fit to go after the gays, then anyone who doesn't fit his narrow view of an appropriate Russian is fair game. I would not be surprised if he and/or his cronies go after other oppressed groups in the lead-up to Sochi 2014. It is because of Tsar Vladimir of Putinistan that I am wary of anything about Russia, from a Russian winning an Olympic gold medal to a Russian winning Miss World or whatever pageant to merely walking into a Russian grocery store in San Francisco's Sunset District. Of course it is an irrational thought that I have, but so is what's going on in Russia against the gays.

  13. #533

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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    If Americans think this is the best way to make Russia changes this discriminatory law, then perhaps a boycott by the USA may forces Putin's hand indeed. It has to be carried out to see its effects.
    I still think there is so much noise in USA but seemingly so little in more liberal euro nations!! Dutch condemned the arrest very clearly but not as strongly as possible!

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDSSF View Post
    Here's what I think: if Tsar Vladimir of Putinistan (as I like to call him) sees fit to go after the gays, then anyone who doesn't fit his narrow view of an appropriate Russian is fair game. I would not be surprised if he and/or his cronies go after other oppressed groups in the lead-up to Sochi 2014. It is because of Tsar Vladimir of Putinistan that I am wary of anything about Russia, from a Russian winning an Olympic gold medal to a Russian winning Miss World or whatever pageant to merely walking into a Russian grocery store in San Francisco's Sunset District. Of course it is an irrational thought that I have, but so is what's going on in Russia against the gays.
    Putinistan! Lol! It's hardly irrational thinking when there are total Stoli boycotts!!

  14. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDSSF View Post
    Putinistan......
    Otlichno!
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  15. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Getting into a "who is worse" argument is just a way to distract people from the topic at hand. Yes, there are atrocities that happen everywhere around the world. And for each of those, you are welcome to start a new thread to talk about that specific issue. Right here, right now, we are talking about the effect that Russia's anti-gay laws will have on the athletes who will qualify to be in Sochi next year.
    No one has stopped or could stop you from talking what this thread meant to talk about.

    I was merely pointing out that some of these posters are standing on a high horse and judging others as if these kinds of things have never happened and/or are not happening in their own backyard. If the bad things related to human rights are also happening in their own backyard, going on a strike, such as boycotting Olympics, seems ridiculously extreme and overreacting. It could only make the Russians more resistant than before. Haven't anyone remembered that the Russians boycotted US Olympics because the US had boycotted the Russian one?

    As someone has already pointed out in this thread, Putin himself could not make any law! It must have been the views of the majority Russians. Change needs connections and time. It also needs respect. Your culture is open doesn't mean that their culture has to be as open as yours, at least doesn't have to be as open as yours overnight. Just because your own backyard is messy, don't go into other's backyard and make theirs messier.

    Quote Originally Posted by vodkashot View Post
    Custom and culture are never self-justifying in and of themselves. Racism, sexism and ableism were all once considered "customs" in many countries around the world. Why don't you try replacing where you said things like "same sex kissing" in your post with something like "treating all races equally"? Would you still find wanting to see racial equality in public "selfish"?
    Oh, I didn't know that "right to kiss in public" is equal to "right to vote", "right to have the same educations", "right to have the same job opportunities", and "right to have the same healthcares".
    Last edited by Eyre; 07-28-2013 at 07:02 AM.

  16. #536

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    Sochi Olympics will test gay rights

    Boycotting the Olympics will have no effect, boycotting in 1980 did not make Russia pull out of Afganistan or end the fighting there. Hitting Russia economically is a thought but would hurt the poor workers in Russia more than the government.

  17. #537

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    Oh, I didn't know that "right to kiss in public" is equal to "right to vote", "right to have the same educations", "right to have the same job opportunities", and "right to have the same healthcares".
    A right to kiss in public can be seen as a form of freedom of expression and a freedom of association. Also, this delves into the rights of adults to be intimate with one another, which would go under privacy. Yes, kissing in public is public, not private, however, criminalizing an intimate act for one population and not another would absolutely affect the way various legislative bodies can start cracking down on the acts in private (if it's ok to criminalize this behavior in public, then surely it's also ok to criminalize it altogether).

    Then there's the issue of equal protections under the law, which is a separate train-of-thought from recognizing a right to do something. Of course, I don't know the Russian constitution, so I don't even know what it says regarding due process and if it even recognizes equal protections under the law.

    I do agree with what another poster said and I absolutely think that your whole dismissive attitude regarding how important it is for LGBTQ individuals to not be singled out in showing affection in public when heterosexuals often do so without thinking twice or realizing they're doing it and are on display shows an incredible amount of privilege and lack of understanding of the issue at hand. I mean dismissing it as simply "kissing in public" just says it all about how much you really thought about it.

    OT, but I had a really interesting conversation with a friend of mine about this very topic. He thinks a boycott should not happen because he thinks once Russia opens its doors to the rest of the world, they cannot control the press and the behavior of such a sheer number of outsiders coming into this country. He thinks the Russian people will be exposed to other ways of thinking and whatever counter action that is happening in Russia will only gain traction from all the world-wide attention being brought to Russia. He also thinks a boycott will only cause even greater animosity towards the people of the West and Russia.

    I have a much more cynical view of it, but I have opened my mind up a bit more. I just don't really trust people to care at all, and the Russian government will tolerate 2 weeks of Western influence just as long as they get tons of revenue from the Olympics. I think once all the spectators and media leave and feel good about the "positive influence" they brought they won't give Russia a second thought (except when figuring out if they'd like to go there again for their winter vacations) and all the crack downs will happen ten-fold.

    ETA:

    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    What has the boycott of Sochi Olympics got to do with Patrick Chan or other skaters and gold medals just because Eyre doesn't seem to support the boycott?

    I am sure most of our lives do not revolve around skaters although we post in skating forums?
    Because I have a theory that a lot of people don't want a boycott just so they can enjoy watching the Olympic games and see skaters that they have invested in get to compete. I mean we write in threads dedicated to skaters, have argued/defended results, and are arguing for/against a boycott in a figure skating forum on a daily basis. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that some selfishness is coming to play here, just like how some in this thread are suggesting that LGBTQ individuals and their allies are being selfish for thinking that "gay issues" are the "only important issues."
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 07-28-2013 at 07:34 AM.

  18. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDSSF View Post
    Here's what I think: if Tsar Vladimir of Putinistan (as I like to call him) sees fit to go after the gays, then anyone who doesn't fit his narrow view of an appropriate Russian is fair game. I would not be surprised if he and/or his cronies go after other oppressed groups in the lead-up to Sochi 2014. It is because of Tsar Vladimir of Putinistan that I am wary of anything about Russia, from a Russian winning an Olympic gold medal to a Russian winning Miss World or whatever pageant to merely walking into a Russian grocery store in San Francisco's Sunset District. Of course it is an irrational thought that I have, but so is what's going on in Russia against the gays.
    So this is acceptable while arguing for LGBT rights... showing your prejudice against a set of population...

  19. #539
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    Yes. This what I'm saying.

    The Cold War is not over yet.

    You are happy, if you can hate Russia, you want to hate Russia..Putinistan....congrats

    And yes, I say, that is a shame, who wants to use the Olympic Games, sacrificing the Olympic spirit for any purpose ...

    ... the world can find other means to fight the law ... the Olympic spirit is inviolable !

  20. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I do agree with what another poster said and I absolutely think that your whole dismissive attitude regarding how important it is for LGBTQ individuals to not be singled out in showing affection in public when heterosexuals often do so without thinking twice or realizing they're doing it and are on display shows an incredible amount of privilege and lack of understanding of the issue at hand. I mean dismissing it as simply "kissing in public" just says it all about how much you really thought about it.
    I think you are desperately wanting to be singled out in their country. You couldn't wait for the time to make connections and cultural changes. You just want to kiss in the public and make a scene and make the majority people there feel offended because that's your purpose. Go ahead.

    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Because I have a theory that a lot of people don't want a boycott just so they can enjoy watching the Olympic games and see skaters that they have invested in get to compete. I mean we write in threads dedicated to skaters, have argued/defended results, and are arguing for/against a boycott in a figure skating forum on a daily basis. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that some selfishness is coming to play here, just like how some in this thread are suggesting that LGBTQ individuals and their allies are being selfish for thinking that "gay issues" are the "only important issues."
    Naaaaaa, I'm surprised that a person as smart as yourself has forgotten that Olympics is not a competition between only Russia and US two countries. I'd be quite happy if you are happy with the decision by US to boycott Sochi games. There will be less competitions and my favorites will have better chance to win.
    Last edited by Eyre; 07-28-2013 at 08:27 AM.

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