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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAHbKA View Post
    I haven't noticed
    Taking into account you are a rare visitor there too, it's a small wonder My last post (excluding my award votes, since it's not a usual post) dates back to Eurovision 2013 times and that is more than a month ago

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Whilst two wrongs definitely don't make a right, I would argue that one of the main reasons for anti-gay laws being passed in countries like Russia and Uganda is that it's a backlash against colonialism.
    Really?

    Russia colonized parts of what is now the United States and, for long periods, occupied all or parts of modern-day Germany, Finland, and *ahem* Poland, among other countries. The last people who could truly be said to have "colonized" Russia were the Mongols in the Thirteenth Century.

    And, according to Wikipedia, the "proposed legislation in Uganda has been noted by several news agencies to be inspired by American evangelical Christians."

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    No - when I travel as a tourist I travel with my partner who is male and we book into hotels as a couple with a double bed....that usually tips people off in the place you are staying. As a tourist I would also be interested in finding the gay areas of a place and going to gay bars or clubs, something I wouldn't do if I was travelling to Russia with work for example. I am not aware that athletes travel with and stay with their partners in the Olympic village - I thought only athletes and officials stayed in the olympic village so I can't see it coming up. The athletes are there to do a job, with their minds focussed on the task at hand, after their competitions are done I expect they let their hair down, but doesn't that all happen in the Olympic village?

    Like I said - how many out athletes will take part in the winter Olympics in Sochi? Of that undoubtedly tiny number, I serioulsy doubt any of them will be attacked.
    So all the gay athletes (or even slightly more effeminate straight men, or more masculine straight women) have to stay locked up in the Olympic Village? Like being in a prison when the party is happening all over town. Yes - the Olympics happen all over the town/city they are being held in, not just in the Olympic Village which is only the area in which athletes have housing and other services like cafeteria/medical/etc. So an athlete is finished competing in the first week and instead of being able to go celebrate and join the party in the town he/she has to stay the village? Is that what you're suggesting? Doesn't seem fair to me.
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    Also not sure how whether one is "out" is relevant to the discussion of homophobia. Because no one has ever been teased or bullied or attacked because they were "perceived" to be gay.

  5. #245

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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    So all the gay athletes (or even slightly more effeminate straight men, or more masculine straight women) have to stay locked up in the Olympic Village? Like being in a prison when the party is happening all over town. Yes - the Olympics happen all over the town/city they are being held in, not just in the Olympic Village which is only the area in which athletes have housing and other services like cafeteria/medical/etc. So an athlete is finished competing in the first week and instead of being able to go celebrate and join the party in the town he/she has to stay the village? Is that what you're suggesting? Doesn't seem fair to me.
    No it's not what I'm suggesting at all. I've made my feelings on the laws in Russia crystal clear - I abhor them, they are disgusting and i disagree with them completely.

    People are hyperventillating about the safety of the gay athletes, and whringing their hands and claiming the athletes won't be safe, and I just don't think it's going to be an issue.

    You write "all the gay athletes" and again, since no-one appears to be able to answer my question, I ask - exactly how many gay athletes are going to the games? Given that sports is the last place left where people don't come out, manage to hide their sexuality very well, keep it from the media, refuse to come out so they don't harm their earning potential, exactly who is at risk? The speed skater who was in the first linked article, and who else? I personally find it unlikely that Johnny Weir will make the Olympic team for Sochi so i doubt he'll be there, but even if he is, that's 2 athletes out of how many? Do people really think that such a small number of potential targets and any of their friends and family cannot be kept safe by the organisers? Don't get me wrong - no-one should have to be kept safe because of their sexuality, but the law is in place, it's not going anywhere, the Olympics aren't being called off, and I simply don't believe that any gay athlete is going to be attacked, inside or outside the Olympic village.

    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    Also not sure how whether one is "out" is relevant to the discussion of homophobia. Because no one has ever been teased or bullied or attacked because they were "perceived" to be gay.
    I think it's relevant to the point people are making about gay athletes being harmed. If they're not out then why would they be attacked for being gay? Closeted athletes are extremely good at not making their sexuality known, why would this be any different?

    School yard bullying is one thing, but i've not read many accounts of straight people being attacked because the attacker thought they were gay and it turned out they were wrong....maybe there are stats out there that show otherwise.
    Last edited by antmanb; 06-25-2013 at 03:47 PM.

  6. #246
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    I agree with antmanb. I just don't see this being a factor during the Olympics.

    Does that make it comfortable for gay people to attend? No, of course not; just knowing this is the climate in the country is going to be very uncomfortable. A lot of things that should not be, are uncomfortable for gay people. We're still fighting on this. Whether or not the Sochi Olys should be turned into a major front for the fight is a judgement call. I don't think it is necessitated by the situation.
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  7. #247
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    I've been to two Olympics, one Winter and one Summer. They were both in the USA where I live. So I have seen what it's like to be in those places when the Olympics are not there and then when they are.

    What I have seen is that the atmosphere surrounding the Olympics is not the same as it is in those same places during your regular day-to-day living. First of all, there is way more security and police presence. Second, the people who live there mostly get into a "welcome to my town, stranger" mentality. Third, there are way more people running around day and night and there is safety in numbers. Fourth, the athletes are worshiped and feted, even the minor obscure ones. I think all of this contributes to an atmosphere where athletes in particular but also most tourists are going to be mostly safe particularly if they are sticking to town and the venues and not wandering around into random areas far from the Olympic action.

    I'm not saying some random tourist who wanders into a strange area off the beaten path who challenges established gender stereotypes might not get into trouble if they run into the wrong people. But they are more likely to be taken advantage of just for being a tourist than for being gay. Just because the odds of that happening are greater. And, if they are an athlete, and wearing their athlete jacket, they are probably invincible and the thugs will take them out for a beer or something as soon as they say "biathlon".
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  8. #248
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    Gay athletes won't care at all about Russia's laws in regard to their own athletic performance and experience. If they are chosen to compete in an event, the focus will be SPORT, not SEX.

    I think "gay athletes" will put aside the GAY and COMPETE. Just like everyone else, that will be the focus, not being out and not being some form of political activist.

    This is a NON-issue for any serious athlete.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by PairSk8Fan View Post
    Gay athletes won't care at all about Russia's laws in regard to their own athletic performance and experience. If they are chosen to compete in an event, the focus will be SPORT, not SEX.

    I think "gay athletes" will put aside the GAY and COMPETE. Just like everyone else, that will be the focus, not being out and not being some form of political activist.

    This is a NON-issue for any serious athlete.
    I disagree. It's not activism to walk in the streets living a normal life. There is limited practice time during the competition, and especially in winter sports, special facilities are needed to practice. Athletes get out of the village, especially after their events are over. Paul Wylie had a friend at the 1992 Olympics, and he attributed his good state of mind to taking long walks with her and not obsessing about skating the whole time. Tara Lipiniski was widely reported as having a great time in the lead up to competition. It was Kwan who focused on skating-skating-skating, and look how that worked for her.
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  10. #250

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    Quote Originally Posted by PairSk8Fan View Post
    Gay athletes won't care at all about Russia's laws in regard to their own athletic performance and experience. If they are chosen to compete in an event, the focus will be SPORT, not SEX.

    I think "gay athletes" will put aside the GAY and COMPETE. Just like everyone else, that will be the focus, not being out and not being some form of political activist.

    This is a NON-issue for any serious athlete.
    That may be true, but what about after their event(s)? I mean there's a reason why condoms are distributed at these villages.

    And why do you put gay athletes in quotes like that? Anyway, with these laws that criminalize homosexual behavior, by just being themselves, they will be making a political statement...whether they had intended to or not.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by PairSk8Fan View Post
    Gay athletes won't care at all about Russia's laws in regard to their own athletic performance and experience. If they are chosen to compete in an event, the focus will be SPORT, not SEX.

    I think "gay athletes" will put aside the GAY and COMPETE. Just like everyone else, that will be the focus, not being out and not being some form of political activist.

    This is a NON-issue for any serious athlete.
    I am sorry to say this, but are we talking about having sex or just sexual orientation, let's put it like this?

    If I am talking about gay rights, I am not meaning "I want to have sex on Champs Elysees in the middle of the day", I am just talking about human rights.

    (Though I do remember someone told me I can have sex in the middle of the road in the UK unless I, rather we, block the traffic )

  12. #252
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    Now I understand these lyrics a heck of a lot better.

  13. #253
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    I can already tell the US squad will be silent on this topic. If today's silence is any indication...

    Not even one tweet from our male "stars" skaters regarding today's events????

    #reallyJeremy?

    #noonehomeAdamRip

    #WhataboutyouEvanLysacek?

    Shameful!

  14. #254

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    Did any skater tweet about it? I don't have Twitter, so I don't know.

  15. #255
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    Are you talking about the Supreme Court rulings on DOMA & Prop 8?

    If so, I know Johnny & his husband Victor tweeted about it. And skating writers and coaches tweeted about it.
    Last edited by dardar1126; 06-27-2013 at 04:05 AM.

  16. #256
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    Johnny, obviously goes without saying, I was talking about the rest. Not one single tweet from any of our top male skaters.

    #noballsItellyou
    Last edited by dots; 06-27-2013 at 05:30 AM.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by dots View Post
    Johnny, obviously goes without saying, I was referring about the rest. Not one single tweet from any of our top male skaters.

    #noballsItellyou
    That seems a bit harsh. I think that most of the top male skaters are probably pro-gay, have gay friends/coaches/choreographers, etc.

    I'm on Twitter a lot (no shit, huh? ) and I know that many of the skaters...both male and female...don't tweet all that often about anything...especially anything other than skating.

    That doesn't mean that they aren't supportive of gay rights or don't care about what happened. I think that as public figures they try to remain non-political and neutral.

    BTW, I checked Brian Boitano's Twitter feed...he's gay and did not tweet about these matters. His tweets seem to mostly be about his cooking show.

    So, I think most skaters...both active and retired...use their Twitter accounts mainly for professional matters or self-promotion.
    Last edited by dardar1126; 06-27-2013 at 05:52 AM.

  18. #258

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    But aren't some skaters notorious for twittering about everything and anything? Some have a reputation of having a compulsion to tweet. If that's true, then it's telling that they'd choose to be silent on it...or they just don't know what's going on outside their little world.

    They're free to tweet or not to tweet, but I don't blame followers for wondering about the silence.

  19. #259
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    I only follow a handful of skaters (Max, Gracie, Jason, Charlie, Meryl) and they do NOT tweet often at all. And when they do it's almost exclusively about skating.

    I've checked the feeds of other skaters from time to time, and the current amateur competitors rarely tweet.

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by dardar1126 View Post
    I only follow a handful of skaters (Max, Gracie, Jason, Charlie, Meryl) and they do NOT tweet often at all. And when they do it's almost exclusively about skating.

    I've checked the feeds of other skaters from time to time, and the current amateur competitors rarely tweet.
    I asure you dardar they are out there tweeting their hearts away...just not about DOMA/prop8

    They have no obligation to say anything(or be pro-gay for that matter) but the silence surrounding such an important event is a bit disappointing. Especially when you take into account that USFSA has prominent gay skaters.

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