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  1. #221
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    AMERICAblog ‏@americablog 15m
    Will gay athletes and tourists be safe at the 2014 Sochi Olympics in Russia? http://americablog.com/2013/06/human...in-russia.html
    Human Rights Watch blasts Olympics over worsening plight of Russian gays
    6/20/2013 4:49pm by John Aravosis

    This is getting interesting. Human Rights Watch, one of the lead international human rights groups, has written a rather direct letter to the International Olympic Committee, scolding the IOC for its inaction in the face of growing anti-gay hate in Russia, something which violates the Olympic charter.

    And the point isn’t simply academic. Russia will be hosting the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi, and there’s growing concern about the safety of foreign athletes and tourists, especially gay ones.

    (click above link for full article)
    EDIT: The Human Rights Watch letter...

    http://www.hrw.org/node/116598
    Letter to the Director General of the International Olympic Committee on Discrimination of LGBT People in Russia in Relation to 2014 Winter Olympics
    Last edited by dardar1126; 06-20-2013 at 10:52 PM.

  2. #222
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    On a side note, The Miss Universe Pageant will be in Russia in November. This might be a bellwether moment.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by dardar1126 View Post

    EDIT: The Human Rights Watch letter...

    http://www.hrw.org/node/116598
    Letter to the Director General of the International Olympic Committee on Discrimination of LGBT People in Russia in Relation to 2014 Winter Olympics
    I doubt this will produce any effect. Homophobic propaganda here at the moment is at it's highest level. Some morons even propose laws which will allow military to arrest gays and publicly punish them in the streets. While I doubt this imbecile idea will ever get any serious attention, it does sound alarming.

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrellH View Post
    On a side note, The Miss Universe Pageant will be in Russia in November. This might be a bellwether moment.
    Not Miss Universe!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FarFarAway View Post
    I doubt this will produce any effect. Homophobic propaganda here at the moment is at it's highest level. Some morons even propose laws which will allow military to arrest gays and publicly punish them in the streets. While I doubt this imbecile idea will ever get any serious attention, it does sound alarming.
    It does sound alarming. It makes me think of the crazy teabaggers we have here in the USA.

    Farfaraway, are you out yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by dardar1126 View Post
    Twitter:

    EDIT: The Human Rights Watch letter...

    http://www.hrw.org/node/116598
    Letter to the Director General of the International Olympic Committee on Discrimination of LGBT People in Russia in Relation to 2014 Winter Olympics
    Thanks for the article dardar, but I doubt it'll make any difference. However it's nice to see that the Russian LGBT community will officially participate at prideNY for the first time.

    good for them!

    http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-.../25017432.html

    http://gayeasternbloc.com/

    I often wonder what goes in the mind of a gay Russian skater. For the time being they probably need to stay deep in the closet as I think being out would hurt their chances of getting into the Olympics. Am I wrong to assume this?

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by dots View Post
    I often wonder what goes in the mind of a gay Russian skater. For the time being they probably need to stay deep in the closet as I think being out would hurt their chances of getting into the Olympics. Am I wrong to assume this?
    I believe it's a question of trust. Some of my friends know I am gay, some do not and with the situation changing so drastically I doubt they will know. Moreover, I tend to cut ties with those of my acquaintances whose principles and attitude I doubt.

    The hardest part in this play is pretending to be the man you are in fact not.

  6. #226

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarFarAway View Post
    I believe it's a question of trust. Some of my friends know I am gay, some do not and with the situation changing so drastically I doubt they will know. Moreover, I tend to cut ties with those of my acquaintances whose principles and attitude I doubt.

    The hardest part in this play is pretending to be the man you are in fact not.
    Hang in there, Far Far Away. I hope things get better.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Skatefan View Post
    Hang in there, Far Far Away. I hope things get better.
    I hope they will get better. Thinking back of the times 10 years ago, when I could hug or even kiss my boyfriend in the streets of the large city, I really wonder why it all changed. Back then, hugging and kissing wouldn't have raised a lot of eyebrows, though there were always people thinking this a horrendous sin and ready to curse you right there and then. Now I can truly be open and myself only on my FB page and here on FSU, since this is the only EU-US board I read and visit on a regular basis (thanks for the support everyone!)

    Seriously, I am not sure what will happen if two gay athletes decide to hug, kiss or do whatever else, which is regarded now as propaganda, while in Sochi. While the authorities, I think, would prefer not to notice to avoid the scandal, the people's reaction is what is unpredictable. Even 10 years ago you could get kicked and even seriously injured or killed if you happened to show your feelings in the wrong place at the wrong time. I only hope my country has enough sense left still.

  8. #228

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    Well, you have my support, FarFarAway!

  9. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarFarAway View Post
    I hope they will get better. Thinking back of the times 10 years ago, when I could hug or even kiss my boyfriend in the streets of the large city, I really wonder why it all changed. Back then, hugging and kissing wouldn't have raised a lot of eyebrows, though there were always people thinking this a horrendous sin and ready to curse you right there and then. Now I can truly be open and myself only on my FB page and here on FSU, since this is the only EU-US board I read and visit on a regular basis (thanks for the support everyone!)

    Seriously, I am not sure what will happen if two gay athletes decide to hug, kiss or do whatever else, which is regarded now as propaganda, while in Sochi. While the authorities, I think, would prefer not to notice to avoid the scandal, the people's reaction is what is unpredictable. Even 10 years ago you could get kicked and even seriously injured or killed if you happened to show your feelings in the wrong place at the wrong time. I only hope my country has enough sense left still.
    Obviously you know that this wont be the first major athletic event Russia has ever hosted! There seems to be a belief that because it is the olympics homophobes will be more likely to hurt or kill a gay athlete then at some lower profile event Russia has hosted recently. The Olympic village is where most of the athletes will stay. But even if they do leave the village how will the homophobes in Sochi know who to attack? And security would be higher than say in Moscow worlds in 2011. I doubt the Russian authorities will want to take the Olympics and turn it into something exclusively about attacking homosexuality. Youre actually in Russia so maybe you disagree! I can only think of John Baldwin as someone who was attacked in Russia while at a sporting event and he was just randomly mugged!

  10. #230
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    Far far, we should create a Gay thread @ Off the beaten Track. That way all the ghaayys of FSU can check on each other.


    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    I can only think of John Baldwin as someone who was attacked in Russia while at a sporting event and he was just randomly mugged!
    I always found that little incident a bit suspect... I mean where exactly was he when he got mugged? He was probably on the DL doing who knows what.

    However, you have to understand FarFar's concern with this new anti-gay wave in Russia. I can only imagine the heartbreak of trying to ignore such a blatant witchhunt. Danger and fear are definitely a factor.

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Can you take this kind of debate to the Politically Incorrect forum, please? Thanks.
    This thread is very obviously political so to me the above statement reads: 'It's ok to discuss gay rights in Russia (re: Olympics) but it's not ok to argue about US politics.'

    Whilst two wrongs definitely don't make a right, I would argue that one of the main reasons for anti-gay laws being passed in countries like Russia and Uganda is that it's a backlash against colonialism. Gay rights are seen as a symbol of modernity that the coloniser is trying to impose on the countries it sees as 'not as civilised.' Nobody wants to be perceived as a savage. Especially when the country which tries to portray itself as the more "enlightened" one and which looks down on others has plenty of sins under their belt. 'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.' And in the context of this thread: If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

  12. #232
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    HumanRightsCampaign ‏@HRC 11m
    Bad news coming out of Russia for #LGBT athletes at next year's Olympics. Learn more and take action w/ @HRC: http://bit.ly/10eyq30

  13. #233

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    FarFarAway, you do realize this part of the forum is open for everyone including those who don't even have a FSU account. Including those who read the non EU/US forum where, if I recall, you never stated being gay. You might want to edit your posts here...

  14. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Obviously you know that this wont be the first major athletic event Russia has ever hosted! There seems to be a belief that because it is the olympics homophobes will be more likely to hurt or kill a gay athlete then at some lower profile event Russia has hosted recently.
    The Olympics are supposed to be more about promoting values and ideals than any other sporting event. Tolerance, respect and understanding are foremost among these values. This is why it is understandable for such issues to come up before the Olympics - and not before the third leg of the Weight Lifting European Cup.

    The Olympic village is where most of the athletes will stay. But even if they do leave the village how will the homophobes in Sochi know who to attack?
    I think FarFarway explained that. They could attack athletes who are not used to hiding their homosexuality in their own countries.

    Suppose that there were a place where "heterophobes" attacked straight people. The only guarantee of not being attacked is not showing that you're straight or hiding in some isolated camp. Woukd you feel safe there as a hetero person and would you be reassured by the question "how will they know?"

    I come from a country that is largely homophobic (though the young generation is loads better ). The vast majority of gay people do not voluntarily show signs of their sexual orientation in public and are out only to their closest friends. As a result, we cannot help noticing the subtler signs in body language etc. - and there are many, even if the person is actively trying to hide his/her orientation. So there is hardly ever a problem in identifying a gay person - especially a man - while on the contrary, if a straight guy's body language isn't as macho as most of the population's, he is considered effeminate and thought to be gay. If it's the same in Russia, don't hold your breath on their not knowing - or even wrongly assuming.

    I have no idea how big the real threat of being attacked is, but independently, it is a great pity that discrimination according to sexual orientation is still not considered as serious a crime as racism. A country having laws discriminationg against black people (for instance) would never be given the Olympics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    I think FarFarway explained that. They could attack athletes who are not used to hiding their homosexuality in their own countries.
    I just don't think any athlete is going to be attacked because of their sexuality. The way this debate is going makes it sounds like there's hundreds of out and proud winter Olympians that wonder around in a fanfare of rainbow flags and marching for gay pride everywhere they go.

    Who exactly are these gay athletes that are extremely open about their sexuality to the point that they may make thmselves a target to homophobes in Russia on the off chance they leave the Olympic village?

    Don't get me wrong I think it's digusting that Russia is turning back the clock on gay rights and actively making things worse in it's own country to gay people. Personally as gay man I would not now want to visit Russia at all as I would fear for my own safety as a tourist there. But really, I do not think the Athletes are going to be in any danger at all.

  16. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Don't get me wrong I think it's digusting that Russia is turning back the clock on gay rights and actively making things worse in it's own country to gay people. Personally as gay man I would not now want to visit Russia at all as I would fear for my own safety as a tourist there. But really, I do not think the Athletes are going to be in any danger at all.
    So let me get it right- when you go somewhere as a tourist you do tend to march for gay pride everywhere you go and make it a fanfare of rainbow flags, hence you wouldn't feel safe going to Russia as a tourist fearing for your safety, but none of the gay athletes does it, so they should be allright?

  17. #237
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    OMG! I really don't understand, somebody why does hate the Russians so much?
    This law is really disgusting, but I'm sure not a single skater, tourist will not get into trouble for being gay. This law was made ​​for the ultra-religious people, will not apply at the Olympic Games. It was too much money, they want everything to be okay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TAHbKA View Post
    So let me get it right- when you go somewhere as a tourist you do tend to march for gay pride everywhere you go and make it a fanfare of rainbow flags, hence you wouldn't feel safe going to Russia as a tourist fearing for your safety, but none of the gay athletes does it, so they should be allright?
    No - when I travel as a tourist I travel with my partner who is male and we book into hotels as a couple with a double bed....that usually tips people off in the place you are staying. As a tourist I would also be interested in finding the gay areas of a place and going to gay bars or clubs, something I wouldn't do if I was travelling to Russia with work for example. I am not aware that athletes travel with and stay with their partners in the Olympic village - I thought only athletes and officials stayed in the olympic village so I can't see it coming up. The athletes are there to do a job, with their minds focussed on the task at hand, after their competitions are done I expect they let their hair down, but doesn't that all happen in the Olympic village?

    Like I said - how many out athletes will take part in the winter Olympics in Sochi? Of that undoubtedly tiny number, I serioulsy doubt any of them will be attacked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TAHbKA View Post
    FarFarAway, you do realize this part of the forum is open for everyone including those who don't even have a FSU account. Including those who read the non EU/US forum where, if I recall, you never stated being gay. You might want to edit your posts here...
    Should I? I don't care about that non EU/US forum since I am no more visiting it and what users of that forum think of me is completely immaterial to me at the given point of time.

    I am not having sex in the public, am not insulting anyone, I just want to be the person and yes, the man, I am. No one can deprive me of that right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarFarAway View Post
    Should I? I don't care about that non EU/US forum since I am no more visiting it and what users of that forum think of me is completely immaterial to me at the given point of time.
    I haven't noticed

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